Salvation is for the Whole World

[ForestGreenCook]

Matthew 7:13 plus Romans 8:13

I understand, by what I have read in scripture, that the doctrine that Christ taught can be a hard saying, and difficult for some to understand, but here are some things that I have gleaned from the scriptures, according to my understanding;

Spiritual Israel, which is not all of the nation of Israel (Rom 9:6), and is made up of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation (Rev 5:9)

That most of spiritual Israel has turned away from God, in disobedience (Zeph 3:11), but God left in the midst of them a remnant that shall trust in the Lord, and they shall do no iniquity, nor speak lies, neither shall a deceitful tongue be found in their mouth, for they shall feed and lie down, and none shall make them afraid (Zeph 3:12-13).

By my understanding, in reading in Ezk 10, that it speaks of a wheel within a wheel, the larger outer wheel being the disobedient children of spiritual Israel, who have not lost the promise of their eternal inheritance, but have lost their fellowship with God, until they repent (Rom 11:26 - And all Israel shall be saved) I believe these to be the invisible bride of Christ, his church.

The smaller wheel being the remnant of spiritual Israel of which I believe to be the visible bride of Christ, his church.

I believe the two gates mentioned in Matt 7 harmonizes with the scriptures in Ezek 10. The wide gate being the disobedient children of God, and the strait gate being the remnant of Israel. This is one of the reasons that I believe that there will be far more that will be in heaven, than hell.

I believe the reason the wide gate leads to destruction is because the disobedient children are teaching and preaching false doctrines, and that it is the responsibility of the remnant to preach and teach the gospel to the disobedient, praying that they will repent.

Some more for you to ponder, is that I believe Paul to be a part of the remnant in Rom 10, Praying and preaching the gospel to the disobedient children, who have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge, that they would repent.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Do you think Saul was already born again when He met Christ on the road to Damascus?

Asking again...

Yes, I do believe that Paul was already born again on the road to Damascus. because when he was persecuting the church, he was doing it with all good conscience. His experience on the road to Damascus was when he was converted. He was a late bloomer, like you and I.

 

[Magenta]

I understand, by what I have read in scripture, that the doctrine that Christ taught can be a hard saying, and difficult for some to understand, but here are some things that I have gleaned from the scriptures, according to my understanding;

Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will
live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna
and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in
Capernaum. On hearing it, many of His disciples said, “This is a difficult teaching. Who can accept it?”

You have made mention before about a hard teaching of Jesus. Is that ^^ the one? John 6:57-60

 

[Magenta]

Yes, I do believe that Paul was already born again on the road to Damascus. because when he was persecuting the church, he was doing it with all good conscience. His experience on the road to Damascus was when he was converted. He was a late bloomer, like you and I.

"All good conscience." Hmmm. He thought he was serving God.

Are Satanists who oppose God in "all good conscience" born again also? .

 

[Magenta]

Yes, I do believe that Paul was already born again on the road to Damascus. because when
he waspersecuting the church, he was doing it with all good conscience. His experience on
the road toDamascus was when he was converted. He was a late bloomer, like you and I.

Paul was probably younger than either you or I when we surrendered our lives to God and accepted
His plan of redemption by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ .

I would say his experience on the road to Damascus was when he was convicted.

 

[Magenta]

I agree in every person's life at some point in time their mind wandered
and they entertained the idea what I see is clear evidence of a God.

Does that mean I should believe God is real?

^
That is why God is justified on the Judgment Day when He gives out judgments. People already
had a idea about God and made a decision if He's real or not. They flat out rejected Him.

Having an idea of God through musings on the wonder and splendour and diversity etc of nature
is quite different from knowing Him personally, though. Having an idea of God and feeling some
warm fuzzy connection to nature is a far cry from making some effort to discover the truth of the
matter, and possibly makes a big difference, because God promises to reveal Himself to those who
earnestly seek Him, even as He knows it is not really Him any are seeking, with all their baggage
regarding the current state of the church, church history, and their attitude toward Christians.
They are however seeking the truth, and Truth is embodied in the Person and work of Jesus Christ .

 

[ForestGreenCook]

"All good conscience." Hmmm. He thought he was serving God.

Are Satanists who oppose God in "all good conscience" born again also? .

Do you have an example of anyone opposing God in all good conscience besides Paul?

 

[Mem]

Are you including Moses, who only saw from a hilltop?

No, because Moses believed. Moses wasn't permitted to enter the promised land and, though you among others might consider that the same thing, I don't think it is. I think it might've been because Moses was an angry man (striking the rock instead of speaking to it). After all, Moses did tell God that he was slow of speech, heavy of tongue, something like that, which might be equivalent of today's 'man of few words' but notice his character as a 'man of action,' and maybe too quick to act even. I think it is reasonable to compare Moses to David, who wasn't permitted to build the temple for similar reasons.

 

[Mem]

The "rest" that they did not enter into was "a fellowship with God", but they still have the promise of their eternal inheritance.

Ok but, they died in the desert.

 

[Mem]

Saved=delivered, according to Strong's concordance. When a babe in Christ matures enough to com unto a knowledge of the truth he is delivered from his ignorance.

So, the babe is not eternally delivered from his ignorance?

 

[HeIsHere]

I believe your presuppositions are wrong. While both could be true, nether must be true. And both can be true at the same time.

God is clearly following a plan. History is in Divine control. Not only is there a plan but also a timetable. This is easily demonstrated from scripture. Men's ability to choose in no way limits God from doing exactly as He pleases.

Just because people believe where the Gospel is sent is neither confirmation of freewill or determinism. It merely attests to the power of the gospel. The Arminian will say as you do...see, people must be choosing. The Calvinist will say...God soverignly orchestrated the circumstances to save the elect who responded.

You seem to be so predisposed to one view that it informs your understanding of everything else. Others feel the same way but from the opposing view. As long as this is the case, we will get the same repetitious and often heated threads.

So you do not have presuppositions and are not predisposed.

If you don`t, you would be the first human since the fall who can make this claim.

I think you missed my point entirely.

 

[Cameron143]

So you do not have presuppositions and are not predisposed.

If you don`t, you would be the first human since the fall who can make this claim.

I think you missed my point entirely.

Perhaps I'm predisposed to miss other people's points.
If you think you can explain it in a different way that I'll understand better I'll be glad to give it another shot.

 

[Magenta]

Perhaps I'm predisposed to miss other people's points.

I think your predisposition is walking the fine line separating the extremes.

The view is so much better from the middle! You see both sides clearly.

 

[Cameron143]

I think your predisposition is walking the fine line separating the extremes.

The view is so much better from the middle! You see both sides clearly.

That usually just puts one between the two sides throwing water balloons at each other. I'm in big trouble if people upgrade to paintball.

 

[Mem]

That usually just puts one between the two sides throwing water balloons at each other. I'm in big trouble if people upgrade to paintball.

It seems that your desire is to know the truth, even if it means that you've found to be.... dun dun dun dunnnn!...no, I can't even say it!

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Ok but, they died in the desert.

All who have the promise of an eternal inheritance, will die (sleep) at some point in their life, unless Christ comes to take them home before they die (sleep). A child of God will died to their sins, by Christ's death on the cross, but they will not taste of the second death, that death is reserved for those he did not choose. at the last day.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

So, the babe is not eternally delivered from his ignorance?

On the contrary, a new born babe in Christ, has been born again with a new spiritual life, which is the result of Christ's death on the cross in saving him eternally. Your confusion is not distinguishing between eternal salvation (deliverance,) and timely salvation (deliverance).

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Paul was probably younger than either you or I when we surrendered our lives to God and accepted
His plan of redemption by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ .

I would say his experience on the road to Damascus was when he was convicted.

I like to think of God, as not planning anything, but to purpose things.

 

[ForestGreenCook]

Just as the living Father sent Me and I live because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on Me will
live because of Me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your fathers, who ate the manna
and died, the one who eats this bread will live forever.” Jesus said this while teaching in the synagogue in
Capernaum. On hearing it, many of His disciples said, “This is a difficult teaching. Who can accept it?”

You have made mention before about a hard teaching of Jesus. Is that ^^ the one? John 6:57-60

I would like to hear your comments on the rest of my post#1121.

 

[Mem]

On the contrary, a new born babe in Christ, has been born again with a new spiritual life, which is the result of Christ's death on the cross in saving him eternally. Your confusion is not distinguishing between eternal salvation (deliverance,) and timely salvation (deliverance).

My confusion enters at your suggestion that I should only trust your discernment when which means which.