Have you taken the red pill yet?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,780
6,743
113
#41
Do you really think that they entered the tomb and collected those cloths under the circumstances? That is an absurd notion. They were more interested in seeing the Risen Lord, not His burial cloths which He had left behind. Chances are that the two angels who had come to the tomb removed them so that they would never become "relics".
Yes, I think without any doubt they were collected because history tells us they were. The account of the Sudarium is considered very credible and reliable.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,780
6,743
113
#43

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#44
I didn't say the Shroud, the Sudarium is the cloth that wrapped around the head.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudarium_of_Oviedo John 20:7 calls it the napkin
There is a big gap between 30 AD and 570 AD or 700 AD. From the article you quoted: "The cloth has been dated to around 700 AD by radiocarbon dating. However, at the same conference at which this information was presented, it was noted that in actuality the cloth has a definite history extending back to approximately 570 AD. The laboratory noted that later oil contamination could have resulted in the late dating.[2]

I would suggest you forget about all these nonsensical relics. The Catholic Church loved to promote relics and all kinds of superstitions, but Christians should ignore all that.
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,780
6,743
113
#45
The bottom line is if the Shroud is a counterfeit it is the best counterfeit in human history. No one has been able to replicate it.

The only way this could have been done is if you crucified a real person with the same blood type as Jesus in Jerusalem during Easter, wrapped the body in a cloth that was made with Egyptian cotton and weaved according to an ancient style, then laid in a tomb in Jerusalem, all at the same time as the crusades were going on, you would have had to use ancient tools for the scourging and you would have to get the crown of thorns and put it on his head. You would also have to crucify him the way the Romans did and not the way people thought based on artists renderings, even so you would have 1/10 chance of getting the right blood type.

But even if you did all that how do you get the image on the shroud? No one has been able to replicate that.

Finally, why would you sew the strip that was cut off back on?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,780
6,743
113
#46
There is a big gap between 30 AD and 570 AD or 700 AD. From the article you quoted: "The cloth has been dated to around 700 AD by radiocarbon dating. However, at the same conference at which this information was presented, it was noted that in actuality the cloth has a definite history extending back to approximately 570 AD. The laboratory noted that later oil contamination could have resulted in the late dating.[2]

I would suggest you forget about all these nonsensical relics. The Catholic Church loved to promote relics and all kinds of superstitions, but Christians should ignore all that.
I could care less whether you or anyone else is interested in the Shroud of Turin, that is between you and the Lord. Meanwhile I'll let the Lord direct me as what I will consider and what I will forget.

It is astounding to me how arrogant some people can get, people who know absolutely nothing, didn't even know about the Sudarium.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
#47
John 20: 5 and stooping and looking in, he seeth the linen cloths lying; yet entered he not in. 6 Simon Peter therefore also cometh, following him, and entered into the tomb; and he beholdeth the linen cloths lying, 7 and the napkin, that was upon his head, not lying with the linen cloths, but rolled up in a place by itself.
But even if you did all that how do you get the image on the shroud?
1) The body of Jesus was wrapped in cloth.
2) The 'napkin' was a separate piece for His head.
3) There should be no image of a face on the shroud.
4) The Shroud of Turin was draped over the head and body, not wrapped.

It is all in the details... ;)
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,780
6,743
113
#48
1) The body of Jesus was wrapped in cloth.
2) The 'napkin' was a separate piece for His head.
3) There should be no image of a face on the shroud.
4) The Shroud of Turin was draped over the head and body, not wrapped.

It is all in the details... ;)
You don't know what you are talking about. The Shroud is about 12 feet long. You put the body at one end and then fold it over so six feet is on the back and six feet is on the front. Then you wrap it up with the cord you cut off the lengthwise.

The Face cloth ties up the jaw.

Seriously, the Shroud was studied by a team of scientists and some have been studying if for decades. You have 0 idea what you are talking about.
 

GaryA

Truth, Honesty, Love, Courage
Aug 10, 2019
9,835
4,321
113
mywebsite.us
#49
You don't know what you are talking about. The Shroud is about 12 feet long. You put the body at one end and then fold it over so six feet is on the back and six feet is on the front. Then you wrap it up with the cord you cut off the lengthwise.

The Face cloth ties up the jaw.

Seriously, the Shroud was studied by a team of scientists and some have been studying if for decades. You have 0 idea what you are talking about.
Okay - whatever...
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,933
1,121
113
#50
1) The body of Jesus was wrapped in cloth.
2) The 'napkin' was a separate piece for His head.
3) There should be no image of a face on the shroud.
4) The Shroud of Turin was draped over the head and body, not wrapped.

It is all in the details... ;)
Not only that, but God would never leave anything behind of Jesus' burial that man can turn into some sort of idol. That's why God buried Moses Himself, so no one can make a shrine out of Moses tomb or make an idol of his bones. Same thing!
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,042
8,375
113
#52
You don't know what you are talking about. The Shroud is about 12 feet long. You put the body at one end and then fold it over so six feet is on the back and six feet is on the front. Then you wrap it up with the cord you cut off the lengthwise.

The Face cloth ties up the jaw.

Seriously, the Shroud was studied by a team of scientists and some have been studying if for decades. You have 0 idea what you are talking about.
Could be legit. Nobody knows for sure.....:unsure:
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,933
1,121
113
#53
Could be legit. Nobody knows for sure.....:unsure:
GaryA showed that the shroud of turin doesn't line up with the description in the Bible. I'd go with what the Bible says over what scientists say. We already know scientists aren't very reliable. This shroud could just be distraction away from truth.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,042
8,375
113
#54
GaryA showed that the shroud of turin doesn't line up with the description in the Bible. I'd go with what the Bible says over what scientists say. We already know scientists aren't very reliable. This shroud could just be distraction away from truth.
Thanks man. I have done my due diligence on the matter. And the jury is still out in this case.....
As for "distraction"......from what exactly?
 

ZNP

Well-known member
Sep 14, 2020
36,780
6,743
113
#55
Could be legit. Nobody knows for sure.....:unsure:
What we do know for sure is that if it is not legit it is the greatest counterfeit in human history.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
1,933
1,121
113
#57
Thanks man. I have done my due diligence on the matter. And the jury is still out in this case.....
As for "distraction"......from what exactly?
This Shroud can be used as an idol. So a distraction from the Lord Himself.

I know you say you've done your due diligence, but I don't bank much on what you've culled from your vast amount of research on other things.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,042
8,375
113
#58
This Shroud can be used as an idol. So a distraction from the Lord Himself.

I know you say you've done your due diligence, but I don't bank much on what you've culled from your vast amount of research on other things.
Great. There is nothing wrong with being/remaining a dimbulb. God loves the dimbulbs too bro.

BTW......I just routed out a couple of Unitarians on the other thread. What have you done of any substance lately?
 
G

Gojira

Guest
#59
The recent-and-ongoing 'plandemic' has opened the eyes of many.

Are you one of them?
What, that it's a useful crisis through which to test the waters of fascism, to bring back the good old days of the 1930s?

Nah, don't know what you're talking about.
 
G

Gojira

Guest
#60
When has the UN shown themselves to be against Israel? A member of the UN since 1949.

I don't know what country you live in however, the American media has never demonstrated themselves to be against Israel.
W...w...wow.