"What must I do to be saved?"
- Thread starter oyster67
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
I believe what the word says about water baptism in the name of the Lord Jesus and what results upon belief and obedience to the command. It is for remission of sins as stated in numerous places. And as revealed by Ananias to Paul; "Why tarriest thou, arise and be baptized and wash away thy sins calling upon the name of the Lord." Acts 22:16
Clearly we disagree.
You as well as others get hung up on the sequence that occurred with the Gentiles in Acts 10:43-49. And ignore the fact that they were commanded to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus after receiving the Holy Ghost. The promise given at Pentecost was fulfilled. Do you not understand that God was not oblivious to the fact that Cornelius and others were going to believe and obey the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus? Although not expressed, it is quite possible Peter would have faltered at giving the baptism command if not for God's intervention. Peter actually told the Jewish leaders in Acts 11 that AFTER seeing the group receive the Holy Ghost who was he to withstand God. This statement had to pertain to water baptism, because that was the only command he gave after their being indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Notice the Jewish leaders response: "Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." (Acts 11:17-18) Repentance unto life involves everything included having one's sins remitted in obedience to the baptism command.
There is no way around it, scripture reveals that the NT rebirth involves water and Spirit. (John 3:3-5) This truth is confirmed by the first and subsequent messages presented to those of all nationalities. This same message has been carried throughout the corridors of time. God promises to give the Holy Spirit to those who are willing to accept and be obedient to the gospel first presented at Pentecost. (Acts 2:2-39) The sequence differs; however, both water and Spirit are involved.
You as well as others get hung up on the sequence that occurred with the Gentiles in Acts 10:43-49. And ignore the fact that they were commanded to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus after receiving the Holy Ghost. The promise given at Pentecost was fulfilled. Do you not understand that God was not oblivious to the fact that Cornelius and others were going to believe and obey the command to be water baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus? Although not expressed, it is quite possible Peter would have faltered at giving the baptism command if not for God's intervention. Peter actually told the Jewish leaders in Acts 11 that AFTER seeing the group receive the Holy Ghost who was he to withstand God. This statement had to pertain to water baptism, because that was the only command he gave after their being indwelled by the Holy Spirit. Notice the Jewish leaders response: "Forasmuch then as God gave them the like gift as he did unto us, who believed on the Lord Jesus Christ; what was I, that I could withstand God?
When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life." (Acts 11:17-18) Repentance unto life involves everything included having one's sins remitted in obedience to the baptism command.
There is no way around it, scripture reveals that the NT rebirth involves water and Spirit. (John 3:3-5) This truth is confirmed by the first and subsequent messages presented to those of all nationalities. This same message has been carried throughout the corridors of time. God promises to give the Holy Spirit to those who are willing to accept and be obedient to the gospel first presented at Pentecost. (Acts 2:2-39) The sequence differs; however, both water and Spirit are involved.
Based on your eisegesis of these pet verses above, you believe in a "different" gospel of salvation by water baptism, as taught by Oneness Pentecostalism, Roman Catholicism, Mormonism and other false religions and cults.
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of our salvation.
Acts 15:7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
The gospel is the "good news" of the death, burial and resurrection of Christ (1 Corinthians 15:1-4) and is the power of God unto salvation to everyone that BELIEVES.. (Romans 1:16) To "believe" the gospel is to trust in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of our salvation.
Acts 15:7 And when there had been much dispute, Peter rose up and said to them: “Men and brethren, you know that a good while ago God chose among us, that by my mouth the Gentiles should hear the word of the gospel and believe. 8 So God, who knows the heart, acknowledged them by giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He did to us, 9 and made no distinction between us and them, purifying their hearts by faith.
-
1
- Show all
You believe what your pet verses "on the surface" appear to teach, but is not in harmony with the rest of scripture on salvation by faith.
In regards to Acts 22:16, as Greek scholar AT Robertson points out, baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ, but it does not literally wash away our sins, contrary to your conclusion. Jamison, Fausset, and Brown Commentary makes not of the importance of the Greek in Ananias' statement. When Ananias tells Paul to "arise, be baptized, wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord," the tense of the last command is literally "having called" (aorist middle participle). "Calling on [epikalesamenos] --- 'having (that is, after having) called on,' referring the confession of Christ which preceded baptism." [Jamison, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, vol. 3 pg. 160]. Kenneth Wuest picks up on this Greek nuance and translates the verse as follows: "And now, why are you delaying? Having arisen, be baptized and wash away your sins, having previously called upon His Name." (Acts 22:16, Wuest's Expanded NT).
In Acts 10:43, receiving remission of sins is connected with "believes in Him" and not with baptism (Acts 10:43-47). In Acts 9, Jesus told Ananias that Paul "is a chosen vessel unto Me" (vs 15), although the apostle had not yet been water baptized. Before Paul was baptized, Christ had already commissioned him to "bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel" (Acts 9:15) and such a commission is not for one who is still lost in their sins. Before Paul’s baptism, Christ had set him aside as one who would "suffer for His name’s sake" (9:16). Can one who is a child of the devil, as all the lost are (Ephesians 2:1-3, John 8:44), really suffer for Christ’s sake? NO.
So, Paul had already believed in Christ when Ananias came to pray for him to receive his sight (Acts 9:17). It also should be noted that Paul at the time when Ananias prayed for him to receive his sight, he was filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17)--this was BEFORE he was water baptized (Acts 9:18). Verse 17 connects his being filled with the Spirit with the receiving of his sight. We know that he received his sight prior to his baptism.
Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html
It's interesting that when Paul recounted this event again later in Acts (Acts 26:12-18), he did not mention Ananias or what Ananias said to him at all. Verse 18 again would confirm the idea that Paul received Christ as Savior on the road to Damascus since here Christ is telling Paul he will be a messenger for Him concerning forgiveness of sins for Gentiles as they have faith in Him. It would seem unlikely that Christ would commission Paul if Paul had not yet believed in Him and was still lost in his sins.
No scripture is to be interpreted in isolation from the totality of scripture. Practically speaking, a singular and obscure verse is to be subservient to to multiple and clear verses, and not vice versa.
In regards to Acts 22:16, as Greek scholar AT Robertson points out, baptism here pictures the washing away of sins by the blood of Christ, but it does not literally wash away our sins, contrary to your conclusion. Jamison, Fausset, and Brown Commentary makes not of the importance of the Greek in Ananias' statement. When Ananias tells Paul to "arise, be baptized, wash away your sins, calling on the name of the Lord," the tense of the last command is literally "having called" (aorist middle participle). "Calling on [epikalesamenos] --- 'having (that is, after having) called on,' referring the confession of Christ which preceded baptism." [Jamison, Fausset, and Brown Commentary, vol. 3 pg. 160]. Kenneth Wuest picks up on this Greek nuance and translates the verse as follows: "And now, why are you delaying? Having arisen, be baptized and wash away your sins, having previously called upon His Name." (Acts 22:16, Wuest's Expanded NT).
In Acts 10:43, receiving remission of sins is connected with "believes in Him" and not with baptism (Acts 10:43-47). In Acts 9, Jesus told Ananias that Paul "is a chosen vessel unto Me" (vs 15), although the apostle had not yet been water baptized. Before Paul was baptized, Christ had already commissioned him to "bear His name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel" (Acts 9:15) and such a commission is not for one who is still lost in their sins. Before Paul’s baptism, Christ had set him aside as one who would "suffer for His name’s sake" (9:16). Can one who is a child of the devil, as all the lost are (Ephesians 2:1-3, John 8:44), really suffer for Christ’s sake? NO.
So, Paul had already believed in Christ when Ananias came to pray for him to receive his sight (Acts 9:17). It also should be noted that Paul at the time when Ananias prayed for him to receive his sight, he was filled with the Holy Spirit (Acts 9:17)--this was BEFORE he was water baptized (Acts 9:18). Verse 17 connects his being filled with the Spirit with the receiving of his sight. We know that he received his sight prior to his baptism.
Excellent article on Acts 22:16 - https://kentbrandenburg.blogspot.com/2015/03/acts-2216-baptism-essential-for.html
It's interesting that when Paul recounted this event again later in Acts (Acts 26:12-18), he did not mention Ananias or what Ananias said to him at all. Verse 18 again would confirm the idea that Paul received Christ as Savior on the road to Damascus since here Christ is telling Paul he will be a messenger for Him concerning forgiveness of sins for Gentiles as they have faith in Him. It would seem unlikely that Christ would commission Paul if Paul had not yet believed in Him and was still lost in his sins.
No scripture is to be interpreted in isolation from the totality of scripture. Practically speaking, a singular and obscure verse is to be subservient to to multiple and clear verses, and not vice versa.
Clearly we strongly disagree and the sequence of events in Acts 10 clearly refutes your argument. These Gentiles believed, received the gift of the Holy Spirit and spoke in tongues which is a gift of the Holy Spirit that is only for believers - 1 Corinthians 12) and were saved BEFORE water baptism. (Acts 10:43-47) In regards to "repentance unto life" in Acts 11:17-18, nothing is mentioned here about salvation by obedience to the baptism command. That is more eisegesis on your part. Repentance is a "change of mind" and the new direction of this change of mind is believing in Christ unto salvation/trusting in Christ as the ALL-SUFFICIENT means of our salvation.
In regards to the word "water" in John 3:5, Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.
Also "water" is used in scripture as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.
*So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.*
In regards to the word "water" in John 3:5, Jesus mentions "living water" in John 4:10, 14; 7:37-39 and in John 7:38-39, we read - "He who believes in Me, as the Scripture has said, out of his heart will flow rivers of living water. But this He spoke concerning the Spirit. The Holy Spirit is the source of living water and spiritual cleansing. If "water" is arbitrarily defined as baptism, then we could just as justifiably say, "Out of his heart will flow rivers of living baptism" in John 7:38. If this sounds ridiculous, it is no more so than the idea that water baptism is the source or the means of becoming born again.
Also "water" is used in scripture as an emblem of the word of God, and in such uses it is associated with cleansing or washing. (John 15:3; Ephesians 5:26) When we are born again, the Holy Spirit begets new life, so that we are said to become "partakers of the divine nature." (2 Peter 1:4) The new birth is brought to pass through "incorruptible seed, by the word of God, which lives and abides forever" (I Peter 1:23) and the Holy Spirit accomplishes the miracle of regeneration.
*So to automatically read "baptism" into John 3:5 simply because it mentions "water" is unwarranted.*
I was raised in the Roman Catholic church and they teach the false doctrine of salvation by water baptism. I also had temporarily attended the church of Christ and they also teach salvation by water baptism. I've seen first hand how easily people in both of those churches fall prey to church indoctrination and it's obviously no different with you. Oneness Pentecostals, Seventh Day Adventist's and Mormons also do a great job of indoctrinating their members as well.
-
1
- Show all
You said, "You believe what your pet verses "on the surface" appear to teach." Actually a funny way of looking at the inspired word of God; to think it doesn't actually mean what it says.
Acts 22:16 - When it is understood that water baptism is to be administered in the name of the Lord Jesus (as confirmed by the apostles) the truth becomes clear. Paul was baptized in water calling upon the name of the Lord wherein his sins were washed away as the result of Jesus' sacrifice.
Acts 10:43 - Again when it is understood that water baptism is to be in the name of the Lord Jesus the truth becomes clear. Those who believe in Jesus will have their sins remitted through his name upon obedience to the command.
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins...
Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:43, 48)
Acts 22:16 - When it is understood that water baptism is to be administered in the name of the Lord Jesus (as confirmed by the apostles) the truth becomes clear. Paul was baptized in water calling upon the name of the Lord wherein his sins were washed away as the result of Jesus' sacrifice.
Acts 10:43 - Again when it is understood that water baptism is to be in the name of the Lord Jesus the truth becomes clear. Those who believe in Jesus will have their sins remitted through his name upon obedience to the command.
"To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins...
Peter commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. (Acts 10:43, 48)
"Blind" Paul was called by Jesus on the road to Damascus. He was blind until the man of God, Ananias, arrived with the answer and told him what he must do; including the need to have his sins washed away. This parallels the exchange between Peter and the group at Pentecost.
Acts 22:10-16
And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
Acts 22:10-16
And I said, What shall I do, Lord? And the Lord said unto me, Arise, and go into Damascus; and there it shall be told thee of all things which are appointed for thee to do.
11 And when I could not see for the glory of that light, being led by the hand of them that were with me, I came into Damascus.
12 And one Ananias, a devout man according to the law, having a good report of all the Jews which dwelt there,
13 Came unto me, and stood, and said unto me, Brother Saul, receive thy sight. And the same hour I looked up upon him.
14 And he said, The God of our fathers hath chosen thee, that thou shouldest know his will, and see that Just One, and shouldest hear the voice of his mouth.
15 For thou shalt be his witness unto all men of what thou hast seen and heard.
16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be baptized, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord."
Even a minimal study of denominations reveal a belief in some but not all aspects clearly revealed in the inspired word of God. To judge whether something is true because a certain denomination accepts it or not is not wise. Wisdom comes when people choose to accept what the bible says, not what others say it means. Period. Sadly, manmade tradition continues to blaze a trail weaving its way through history even unto today.
As I have said many times, and shared scripture confirmation, obedience to water baptism in Jesus' name AS WELL AS being indwelt with the Holy Spirit (a separate experience from water baptism) is what results in a person acquiring the NT rebirth. Jesus made this available to all mankind through His shed blood on Calvary. Man has a choice, he can believe it and obey by faith or not.
As I have said many times, and shared scripture confirmation, obedience to water baptism in Jesus' name AS WELL AS being indwelt with the Holy Spirit (a separate experience from water baptism) is what results in a person acquiring the NT rebirth. Jesus made this available to all mankind through His shed blood on Calvary. Man has a choice, he can believe it and obey by faith or not.
I have obeyed the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel. (Romans 10:16; 1:16) Water baptism "in Jesus name only" for salvation is a false gospel taught by Oneness Pentecostals.
https://carm.org/oneness-pentecostal/must-baptism-be-in-jesus-name-baptize/
https://carm.org/oneness-pentecostal/must-baptism-be-in-jesus-name-baptize/
-
1
- Show all
He sure can... and must.
Jesus has thrown open the gates of salvation that all who confess and believe may enter in.
Ephesians 2
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Available to all (not just Jews and Cooks.)
Jesus has thrown open the gates of salvation that all who confess and believe may enter in.
Ephesians 2
13But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ. 14For he is our peace, who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us; 15Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: 17And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh.
Available to all (not just Jews and Cooks.)
-
1
- Show all