Meaning Baptism of the Holy Spirit

[Elijah777]

Only the shadow knows.

don't understand .... up who's nose ??? ... comment. Where comes from ... about what ???

 

[Cameron143]

With respect- Nehemiah6 -Your Servant must disagree,
I Being baptized in the Holy Spirit , speaking in tongues,
Before water baptism, and before being in any church,
or having any knowledge of the Holy Spirit! Bless Our Christ!

Many Humble Apologies, time constraints do not permit further
input.
With Your grace your servant will return and continue the discussion.
Thank You!
In His Service,
Ca'an

I hope you are the one who brings me bad news or brings correction to me. Excellent example of lowliness of mind, esteeming others before yourself.

 

[Cameron143]

...knows its bedtime for Oyster. Night-night, Cambo.

The richest of blessings. Grace and peace.

 

[Cameron143]

don't understand .... up who's nose ??? ... comment. Where comes from ... about what ???

Sorry brother. We were just goofing around.

 

[oyster67]

Do you follow the logic ... argument ... conclusion ... scriptural proof ?

I am sure about the initial salvation aspect, and also believe that speaking in tongues still happens, but I do not confuse the two.

 

[Elijah777]

I hope you are the one who brings me bad news or brings correction to me. Excellent example of lowliness of mind, esteeming others before yourself.

Yes ... I believe your testimony. BUT, you believed on the Lord Jesus first ... otherwise nothing would have happen. When you believed ... HS came to dwell in your heart = born again.

Sorry brother. We were just goofing around.

SMILE = not convenient = helpful in serious conversations = Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. Eph 5.4

Understand we all do this ... but Eph. ( God ) says STOP.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes ... I believe your testimony. BUT, you believed on the Lord Jesus first ... otherwise nothing would have happen. When you believed ... HS came to dwell in your heart = born again.



SMILE = not convenient = helpful in serious conversations = Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. Eph 5.4

Understand we all do this ... but Eph. ( God ) says STOP.

My apologies. I'll refrain on your threads.

 

[Elijah777]

I am sure about the initial salvation aspect, and also believe that speaking in tongues still happens, but I do not confuse the two.

thanks [B][U]oyster67[/U][/B] !

Salvation = you agree = HS comes to dwell in the repented person.

Then, scripture clearly shows ... a 2nd manifestation/experience ... example the disciples plus 120. AND that shows, when this happened they ALL spoke with tongues.

AS to TONGUES ? Is it for all Christians ... back then ... today ??? Yes !

1st Cor. 14 is God's instructions how to properly use the gift ( forget examples of those who improperly use ... and the fake tongues ... the devil's trick to miss the REAL thing ). AND God says ... forbid not to speak in tongues ( vs 14.39 ). So God expects Christians of ALL ages to receive ... just like 120 did ( Ats 1.4 ) ... Cornelius' house did ( Acts 10.46 ) ... the Ephesians did ( Acts 19.6 ). Otherwise no need to give instructions.

Believe, receive and then use other tongues as God instructs/intends !

 

[Elijah777]

My apologies. I'll refrain on your threads.

Thanks ... I wasn't offended. Just making point ... our humor ... gets in the way ... and maybe this is why God says it's not convenient. I was ... politely rebuked for this by a very humble and dedicated servant of God ... can't remember what I joked about ... he said ... regardless there is some real "dig" mixed into your comments . Ouch ... thought about it ... it was true.

God bless you !

 

[Nehemiah6]

High Nehemiah. Sorry ... the Pentecostal church DID NOT invent that TERM. Jesus DID ...

It was not Jesus but John the Baptist who said that Christ would baptize WITH the Holy Ghost. The Pentecostals teach the baptism IN the Spirit. those two things are not identical. Everyone who receives the gift of the Holy Spirit does not speak in "tongues".

 

[Gideon300]

Hi Gideon. Are your ready to sharpen SWORDS and discuss ... maybe some scriptural evidence .... that might make your RETHINK your present understanding ?

No thanks. I'll agree to disagree with you.

 

[Elshya]

Romans 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Yes. God desires the kind of belief and faith that is not ashamed of His Son who died to set us free. Jesus underwent humiliation and shame as well as pain for us and we should count it a privilege to confess Him as Lord and Savior as opportunities arrive (not just a one-time thing.)

I'm not sure how it is for other new believers, but I constantly find myself crying when I read the Bible or think about Christ taking on the sins of the whole world - especially mine, which I thought were irredeemable. The mere fact that He could have said, "No" just puts me in awe. He surrendered to the Father's will. Thank you, Lord Jesus. I am reborn with each new day!

 

[Elijah777]

It was not Jesus but John the Baptist who said that Christ would baptize WITH the Holy Ghost. The Pentecostals teach the baptism IN the Spirit. those two things are not identical. Everyone who receives the gift of the Holy Spirit does not speak in "tongues".

THANKS NEHEMIAH. Please bear with me ... please read below prayerfully ... maybe God wants you to CONSIDER ... like those in Berea ... Acts 17.11

Are we not parsing words here. ??? YOU SAY: " Pentecostals teach the baptism IN the Spirit "

What is the difference ... if in fact ... Pentecostals refer to John's ( God's ) promise/prophecy OR Jesus' ( God's ) promise/prophecy ... if they say ... teach ... the baptism IN the Spirit ... isn't .... Baptized by Jesus with the Holy Ghost ( Spirit ) = same thing !

John said ( Matt. 3.11, Mark 1.8, Luke 3.16 )

I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire: Really ... baptize you with the Holy Ghost = baptize IN the Spirit !

I indeed have baptized you with water: but he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost.
John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire: This is only time John MENTIONS the FIRE ... we see FIRE ( = HS ) sit UPON the heads ( = baptize ) of the 120 ... at Pentecost = evidence HS came UPON the 120 ( Acts 2.3 ).

Jesus said ( Luke 24.49, Acts 1.5, Acts 1.8 )

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you ( not IN , but UPON = baptize ) : but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high. REMEMBER, these disciples were already Born Again at the time of John 20:22.

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. REMEMBER, john ( God ) clarified ... that it is Jesus ...Who ... baptizes in the Holy Ghost ( Spirit ) ... like He did the 120 !

But ye shall receive power, after that ( implies = NOT before ) the Holy Ghost is come upon you ( = you are Baptized, by Me Jesus with the Holy Ghost ) : and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

I RESPECTFULLY SAY ... YES ... ALL CHRISTIANS CAN BE "Baptized with Holy Spirit" by Jesus ... with the accompanying EVIDENCE of speaking with other tongues. THEREFORE, all Christian ... are entitled to SPEAK WITH TONGUES ... but NOT ALL will be ... due to MISUNDERSTANDING and/or DISOBEDIENCE and/or UNBELIEF !

Yes not all Christians ... will get baptized with Holy Ghost ... and then speak with tongues ... Why ! Follow this ...

Clearly, 1st Cor. 15. 4 - 6 says:

... and that He was buried, and that He rose again the third day according to the scriptures: And that He was seen of Cephas, then of the twelve: After that, He was seen of above five hundred BRETHREN at once; of whom the greater part remain unto this present, but some are fallen asleep. After that, He was seen of James; then of all the apostles. ( THINK : God the HS would not call them BRETHREN if they were not Born Again before Jesus ASCENDED into heaven )

I conclude, the above says ... approx. 525 Believers/disciples SAW Jesus BEFORE His ascension. They were Born Again ... because ... they are CALLED brethren ... and ... based upon the Principle of Romans 10. 9-10 ... confessing Jesus and believing in their heart Jesus was raised from the dead ... and more importantly ... Jesus breathed on the disciples in John 20.22 and said ... RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT !

WHY MENTION THE ABOVE ??? 120 / 525 = 24% . Jesus told ALL His disciples to go to the Upper Room ( if not ... Jesus would be a respecter of persons ... some get the fire/power etc. ... but not others = that's not God or Jesus ). SO ... APPROX. 405 believers/disciples ... disobeyed/dis-believed and did not go to the Upper Room. OTHERWISE, scripture would have said ... the fire ( HS ) fell upon all 525. We cannot know what happened to the 405 . .. but can correctly conclude ... the 120 TOLD the 405 and/or every believer they met ... that Holy Spirit was POURED UPON them ... and they ALL spoke with tongues.

NOW COME ON. If I had been one of the 405 ... I'd be praying night and day ... that Jesus WOULD also BAPTIZE me with Holy Spirit AND GIVE ME THE GIFT OF TONGUES ! Wouldn't you ??? So, why wouldn't I do the same thing TODAY ?

OR ... SPECULATE ... if the 405 didn't WANT the tongues ... so didn't get THE BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT with the evidence ( sign ) of speaking in tongues ... its the same today ... IT IS REFLECTIVE OF THE "CHURCH" today ... ONLY ... aprox. 24% of the Body of Christ today ... are Pentecostal/Charismatic ( say and do speak with tongues ). THE REMAINDER ... of the Body of Christ ... deny or resist the BAPTISM OF THE HOLY SPIRIT and the sign/evidence of the speaking with tongues ... SO THEY DON'T GET IT AND LOOK FOR REASONS TO EXPLAIN THEIR UNBELIEF ETC.

Bear with me please. Acts 2 clearly proves ... the SIGN = evidence ... that a Believer has been ... BAPTIZED IN THE HOLY SPIRIT ... IS THAT they will begin to SPEAK IN TONGUES.

Here's the proof ... correct conclusion :

Please .... prayerfully ... read and re-read ACTS 2.

YOU ... must consider ... that the disciples were Born Again ... the night of the Resurrection = some 50 days before Pentecost ( see: John 20:22 ... Jesus said: RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT ! ). Jesus said it ... it happened. The rest of the 120 and/or the total of approx 525 brethren were also Born Again, before Jesus' ascension and BEFORE the day of Pentecost ... based on the principal of Romans 10. 9-10 ... they were call BRETHREN !

Focus on this FACT ... Peter ( God ) says the TONGUES ... is the SIGN ... the Holy Spirit has been poured out ( HS baptized the 120 ) ... according to Joel's ( God's ) prophecy ... according to Jesus' prophecy ( Luke 24.49, Acts 1.5, 8 ) to the Born Again disciples + 120 etc. + the approx. 525 Brethren who SAW Jesus.

MORE TO FOLLOW ... system won't allow me to send ...


















:

 

[Elijah777]

Balance of thoughts to : Nehemiah6

WHY?

When the Jews from all nations ... saw and heard the 120 ... they said to Peter ... What does this mean ( = tongues and speaking wonderful works of God ) ??? Because the JEWS were NOT in the Upper Room to see HS FALL UPON the 120 ... the question can only mean ... WHAT DO THESE TONGUES MEAN ??? WE CAN RIGHTLY CONCLUDE ... after Acts 1.3-4 ... the 120 walked out of the Upper Room ... INTO THE STREETS OF JERUSALEM ... animated by the HS and speaking WITH tongues ... speaking the "foreign" languages of the Jews from all nations ... speaking the wonderful works of God. That's what the Jews SAW ... and HEARD. The Jews were asking what was the MEANING/significance of these supernatural "foreign" TONGUES ... 120 "Galileans" speaking the wonderful works of God in their "native" homeland languages ... and knowing those 120 " Galileans" couldn't be expected to know "foreign" languages ... let alone speak such profound and wonderful works of God. God the same ... yesterday today forever ( Heb 13.8 = He Baptizes in the Holy Spirit ). If ... BECAUSE ... tongues is the SIGN ... of the Joel Promise ... of Jesus' Promise ( baptized in the Holy Spirit ) ... was fulfilled in the 120 Believer's lives ... then that SIGN/evidence hasn't changed TODAY ... JESUS THE SAME ... YESTERDAY TODAY FOREVER .



Now you have to ... consider ... Acts 2.38-39 !

Read Acts 2 carefully. The chronological order is this:

1. Pentecost = the Promise = the Holy Spirit = poured upon = given ... to the 120 = Acts 2.3-4

2. The Jews ask: what do these tongues mean/signify ? Acts 2:12

3. Peter explains: it is the PROOF ... that God's Promise ... according to Joel ... has come to pass ... UPON the 120 ! Acts 2: 14 - 21.

4. Peter preaches Jesus to the 3000 + Jews who heard/saw the 120 animated/empowered by HS and who were SPEAKING IN TONGUES. Acts 2:22 - 36

5. Peter INSTRUCTS the 3000 + ... HOW to RECEIVE the Holy Ghost = get Baptized with Holy Spirit = which, then RESULTS in that new Believer ( repented and water baptized ) starting to SPEAK WITH OTHER TONGUES. Acts 2. 38 - 39

What must the Jews do ( you do ) in order to RECEIVE the baptism of the Holy Spirit ? Not the tongues ... this is the evidence ,,, you received the BAPTISM of HS !

1. It isn't said in the text ... but implied ... now that you understand Jesus" coming/death/resurrection and you have BELIEVED the Gospel ..

2. REPENT ... turn away from your sins.

3. That being the case ... we assume ... like today ... that person instantly got/gets Born Again ( HS IN them ).

4. now, Get water Baptized. We call this a "sacrament" ... obeying the teaching of Jesus. Peter wouldn't ... we don't ... water baptize UNBELIEVERS.

5. So we conclude, they got Born Again ... prior to the 2nd manifestation of Holy spirit = being BAPTIZED with Holy Spirit by Jesus ( according to John's prophecy Mat 3.11 etc. + Jesus promise Acts 1.5 ).

6. THEN ... and only after they are BA ... they WILL receive the Holy Spirit ( which in context ... can only mean = BAPTISM of HS ... with the accompanying tongues ). Why? BECAUSE the 120 did ... why wouldn't the 3000 + expect the same treatment from Jesus/God ... to receive the SAME GIFT ( blessing from an impartial loving God ) ?

7. BUT HOLD ON ... Peter ( GOD ) ... goes FURTHER ... HE says ... the Promise ... the Holy Spirit ( = conclude the Baptism of the Holy Spirit = what Joel said ... God would POUR out UPON = baptism . see Joel 2.28 29 ) would be poured UPON ... all those afar off ( that means Christian during ALL ages ) AND to as many as God shall CALL ( = born again believers ) ... that's the real sticker = means all Christians yesterday, today and until Jesus comes back ! PLUS, they can expect/receive the EVIDENCE = speaking in tongues !

Christians, who have been taught wrong ... are in fear ... some think tongues are the devil's business ( NO ... God's scripture says its from HIM ) ... they are in UNBELIEF ... WHICH stops God from moving.

CONCEDE YOU COULD/might BE WRONG. If you are not ... then do not worry.

However, IF YOU ARE HUMBLE , you will CONSIDER THIS GODLY PRAYER challenge.

God WILL NOT FAULT your SINCERE prayer of scripture.

Consider prayerfully ... to Pray Acts 2.38 - 39. ... something like this ...

"Dear Father GOD, I confess I could be absolutely wrong ... You know the truth ... I plead the blood of Jesus' over my spirit/soul/body ... protect me from all false doctrines. BUT, today ... I read Acts 2.38-39 ... YOU ( thru Peter ) told the 3000+ Jews who SAW the 120 ... that they would ... RECEIVE the gift of the Holy Ghost ... if they REPENTED and were water baptized ! I am born again ... I am born of the Spirit of God and have been water baptized. HOWEVER ... if I have MISUNDERSTOOD what Peter ( You ) MEANT in Acts 2.39 ... misunderstood, what it means to RECEIVE THE HOLY SPIRIT .... and the meaning/PURPOSE of the Pentecost story/history ... how it applies to me today ... please change my heart ! And, because You are no respecter of persons ... if there is more of Holy Spirit for me to receive/experience ... like the 120 did ... I want to receive the SAME baptism of fire the 120 received ... the same gift of the Holy Spirit ... the the same GIFT OF THE HOLY SPIRIT that the 3000 Jews were told they would received ... according to Peter's ( Your ) promise. AND, if I am wrong about the accompanying gift of tongues ... I want it ... because You obviously gave it to the 120 for a purpose ( then instructed them how to use the gift in 1st Cor. 14 ) ... and I want to understand why the gift of tongues should/will operate in my life. Please protect me from any demonic interference ... from any so-called "false Baptism in HS and resulting tongues" ... I know You love me and wouldn't let that happen. I pray all this all in the precious name of Jesus. Amen and amen !

WAIT upon God ... just like the120 were instructed ... don't skim over this ... read and re-read Acts 1 and 2. Then, when you have peace ... pray the above. Pray with expectation ... God won't mislead you ... nor allow you to be misled.

 

[Nehemiah6]

I RESPECTFULLY SAY ... YES ... ALL CHRISTIANS CAN BE "Baptized with Holy Spirit" by Jesus ... with the accompanying EVIDENCE of speaking with other tongues.

The gift of tongues is distinct from the baptism with the Holy Spirit. There are only two instances in Acts when those who received the Holy Spirit also spoke with tongues. But here is the truth about tongues: To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues... Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret? (1 Cor 12:10,30)

What is Paul saying? "Do all speak with tongues or do only some speak with tongues?" So your contention that all Christians will speak with tongues is refuted by Scripture. Furthermore, modern tongues DO NOT correspond to biblical tongues.

 

[oyster67]

My apologies. I'll refrain on your threads.

Yes, I too beg forgiveness for treading upon brother @Elijah777 's sacred threads. I too shall henceforth give Him a wide berth.

 

[oyster67]

AS to TONGUES ? Is it for all Christians ... back then ... today ??? Yes !

No. It is only one gift among many. We are not to covet or hold any one gift above another.

 

[Vindicator]

Why wasn't HS UPON the 10 disciples and/or the 120 ? In Acts 1:5 ( ? 40 days after He blew upon them ), Jesus told these 10 and/or the 120, “for John truly baptized with water, but you shall be baptized with the Holy Spirit not many days from now.” So, this evidences a 2nd manifestation of HS.

Granted when HS CAME UPON them at Pentecost ... HS also FILLED them ... thus assuming, even though they were Born Again ( HS in them ) ... they needed a fill-up !

Greetings, Elijah.

You are correct in the above. There are water baptisms (both for repentance, and for those who believe upon Christ Jesus and are born again), and then a second for those subsequently baptized in fire to receive empowerment for ministry. (Matthew 3:11)

 

[Vindicator]

It was not Jesus but John the Baptist who said that Christ would baptize WITH the Holy Ghost. The Pentecostals teach the baptism IN the Spirit. those two things are not identical.

Hell again, Nehemiah, and hope you've been blessed.

The above is essentially a matter of semantics either way, but the more accurate translation is actually in, not with.

ἐγὼ μὲν ὑμᾶς βαπτίζω ἐν ὕδατι εἰς μετάνοιαν: ὁ δὲ ὀπίσω μου ἐρχόμενος ἰσχυρότερός μού ἐστιν, οὗ οὐκ εἰμὶ ἱκανὸς τὰ ὑποδήματα βαστάσαι: αὐτὸς ὑμᾶς βαπτίσει ἐν πνεύματι ἁγίῳ καὶ πυρί (Matthew 3:11)

βαπτίζω ἐν = Batize in
βαπτίσει ἐν = Will Baptize in

ἐν is the ancient equivalent of the modern English word "in" we use today.

 

[Nehemiah6]

The above is essentially a matter of semantics either way, but the more accurate translation is actually in, not with.

Not necessarily. Please note that there are several ways that en can be translated, depending on the context:
Strong's Concordance
en: in, on, at, by, with
Original Word: ἐν
Part of Speech: Preposition
Transliteration: en
Phonetic Spelling: (en)
Definition: in, on, at, by, with
Usage: in, on, among.

THE MAJORITY OF ENGLISH TRANSLATIONS HAVE "WITH". CASE CLOSED
New International Version
"I baptize you with water for repentance. But after me comes one who is more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
New Living Translation
"I baptize with water those who repent of their sins and turn to God. But someone is coming soon who is greater than I am--so much greater that I'm not worthy even to be his slave and carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
English Standard Version
“I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Berean Study Bible
I baptize you with water for repentance, but after me will come One more powerful than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.
New American Standard Bible
"As for me, I baptize you with water for repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, and I am not fit to remove His sandals; He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
King James Bible
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:
Holman Christian Standard Bible
I baptize you with water for repentance, but the One who is coming after me is more powerful than I. I am not worthy to remove His sandals. He Himself will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
International Standard Version
I am baptizing you with water as evidence of repentance, but the one who is coming after me is stronger than I am, and I am not worthy to carry his sandals. It is he who will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
NET Bible
"I baptize you with water, for repentance, but the one coming after me is more powerful than I am--I am not worthy to carry his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
GOD'S WORD® Translation
I baptize you with water so that you will change the way you think and act. But the one who comes after me is more powerful than I. I am not worthy to remove his sandals. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
English Revised Version
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Webster's Bible Translation
I indeed baptize you with water to repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit, and with fire:
Young's Literal Translation
'I indeed do baptize you with water to reformation, but he who after me is coming is mightier than I, of whom I am not worthy to bear the sandals, he shall baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire,