-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Adam and Eve "died" when they ate the forbidden fruit. Yet somehow......they subsequently had kids. What's going on here?
Gen 2:17
But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
KJV Search Results for "ever" AND "and" AND "ever" (blueletterbible.org)
Rev 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 19:3
And again they said, Alleluia. And her smoke rose up for ever and ever.
Rev 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
Many thanks to the redoubtable @TheDivineWatermark
https://christianchat.com/threads/what-are-you-thoughts-on-annihilation.201874/post-4677286
https://christianchat.com/threads/too-late-after-our-death.194282/post-4350490
"Consider a post I made in the past:
[quoting]
Consider the specific phrase below [in distinction from other similar phrases that refer to distinct things]... the blanks are where this particular phrase should be inserted, in the following:
"unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]" -
(what we call "forever" / "eternity" / "eternal" / endlessness, etc),
...found in the following verses:
--Galatians 1:5;
Philippians 4:20;
1 Timothy 1:17;
2 Timothy 4:18;
Hebrews 13:21
("[to Whom] be glory _____" ; "be honour and glory _____");
--1 Peter 4:11;
1 Peter 5:11;
Revelation 1:6
("to Him/Whom be glory/praise/dominion ____");
--Revelation 1:18;
Revelation 4:9;
Revelation 4:10;
Revelation 5:14;
Revelation 10:6;
Revelation 15:7
("I am alive ____" ; "[Him] Who/that liveth ____" ; "God, Who liveth ____");
--Revelation 5:13;
Revelation 7:12;
Revelation 11:15;
Revelation 22:5
("and unto the Lamb ___" ; "be unto our God ____" ; "and He shall reign ____" ; "and they shall reign ___");
[which ones of the above look to be saying something like "long-but-limited-time-period"??]
--and used in the 3 verses usually "under question":
Revelation 14:11 [regarding those who receive the mark and worship the beast and his image]; and...
Revelation 19:3 [regarding the judgment of "the great whore"]; and...
Revelation 20:10 [regarding "the devil" and where "the beast and the false prophet" already are/will have been for the 1000 yrs]
--and "These two cast ALIVE into" Rev19:20 (@2nd Coming of Christ)... before Satan/the devil is thereafter (after the 1000 yrs) "cast into the lake of fire" where, it says,
"they [plural] shall be tormented day and night [that is, continually] unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural] ";
--and the same place that (of "the dead [/unsaved of all times]") "whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into" also
(see Psalm 69:28 where TWO DISTINCT things/actions/writings are named);
--not to mention where "death and hell/hades" are also to be "cast into" per v.14
--this being the equivalent of the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22,[23], found in v.22b...
...in other words, "hell/hades" (and "death") is what PRECEDES this point in the chronology,
...and thus what FOLLOWS this point in the chronology is "death and hell/hades DELIVERED UP the DEAD that were in them" for this final carrying out of the sentence, so to speak, of which this passage states that it ('the lake of fire') is:
"for ever and ever"/"unto the ages [plural] of the ages [plural]"
i.e. there is no "escaping" this, no "dying [escape / separation] out-from this / out-of this," as "death" is the last enemy to be "destroyed [G2673 - katargeó/katargeitai - 'to make completely inoperative' or 'to put out of use,']" at that time (@GWTj point in the chronology)
[21x total, I believe]
[end quoting that post]
____________
[after someone had mentioned "torture"]
The word is "tormented [G928]" not "torture."
The same word is used in the Gospels @ Matthew 8:5-6 - "5 And He having entered into Capernaum, a centurion came to Him, imploring Him, 6 and saying, “Lord, my servant is lying in the house paralyzed, grievously tormented [G928].”
[and Post #47]
... and a related word in Matthew 4:24 - "And the news of Him went out into all Syria. And they brought to Him all the sick having various diseases and oppressing pains [G931], and being possessed by demons, and having seizures, and paralytics--and He healed them."
[found in Lk16:23,28 also]
____________
[and from another thread...a related post...]
[note to readers: Matt24:3 is not this ^ phrase, but is instead the phrase "the end [singular] of the age [singular]" (see also Matt13:24,30,39,40,49-50), and is speaking of an entirely distinct point-in-time in the chronology, that is, at the time surrounding Christ's Second Coming to the earth FOR the promised and prophesied earthly Millennial Kingdom
...(i.e. the FIRST of TWO "PUNISH" words in Isaiah 24:21-22[23]--i.e. Rev19:19,21/16:14-16/20:3,5),
...aka [for the MK-->] "the age [singular] to come"...
...(not at the GWTj point in time [the SECOND of the TWO "PUNISH" words in that Isaiah passage], to be clear)]
[end quoting from old posts]"
Based on even what little that I have recently posted (and I am no Bible scholar not by a long shot) your theory of annihilationism has been for lack of a better term: annihilated.
Adam will not spend eternity in torment in the lake of fire the way Satan and the fallen angels will.
That is really what salvation (and all of the warnings thereof) is all about.
Mat 25:41
Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
why does Jesus describe the physical death of a believer as "sleep"?
Why does He speak of Lazarus as tho he has not ceased to exist?
Who hears his name when Jesus says "Lazarus" - - someone who exists or someone who doesn't exist?
Who has denied the resurrection of all at the end of this age?
You should try to convince N6 that (the 1st) death is as sleep.
He calls people liars for saying it is so.
Even though Jesus also said it.
And then try to convince all those who claim sleep is a metaphor for watchful, wakeful, awareness...
So what is it that you believe if not some sort of annihilationism? Refresh my 60 year old memory.
"The words the Bible uses."The words the Bible uses.
Apollumi: Strongs Concordance # 622
Cop out.....
For the same reasons Paul does. In some ways, death is like sleep. You're not aware of what's going on around you, you're not aware of the passing of time. Also, you'll wake up. When you sleep, you're usually asleep for a few minutes to several hours. Then you wake up. When you're dead, it may be for a few minutes or it may be thousands of years, but you'll "wake up." You'll be raised from the dead. Practically speaking, since dead people aren't aware of the passing of time (they aren't aware of anything, they're dead..), the instant you die is when you'll be resurrected, even though dozens or hundreds of years may have gone by.
Jesus did say that Lazarus was dead. Unlike today, people back then knew what that meant. Martha got it:
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in the resurrection at the last day.
Someone who was raised from the dead.
Its late, I'm tired, and this is just about as good a synopsis as any.....
What does the Bible say about soul sleep? | GotQuestions.org
“Soul sleep” is a belief that after a person dies, his/her soul “sleeps” until the resurrection and final judgment. The concept of “soul sleep” is not biblical. When the Bible describes a person “sleeping” in relation to death (Luke 8:52; 1 Corinthians 15:6), it does not mean literal sleep. Sleeping is just a way to describe death because a dead body appears to be asleep. The moment we die, we face the judgment of God (Hebrews 9:27). For believers, to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8; Philippians 1:23). For unbelievers, death means everlasting punishment in hell (Luke 16:22-23).
Until the final resurrection, though, there is a temporary heaven—paradise (Luke 23:43; 2 Corinthians 12:4) and a temporary hell—Hades (Revelation 1:18; 20:13-14). As can be clearly seen in Luke 16:19-31, neither in paradise nor in Hades are people sleeping. It could be said, though, that a person’s body is “sleeping” while his soul is in paradise or Hades. At the resurrection, this body is “awakened” and transformed into the everlasting body a person will possess for eternity, whether in heaven or hell. Those who were in paradise will be sent to the new heavens and new earth (Revelation 21:1). Those who were in Hades will be thrown into the lake of fire (Revelation 20:11-15). These are the final, eternal destinations of all people—based entirely on whether or not a person trusted in Jesus Christ for salvation.
Present-day defenders of soul sleep include the Seventh Day Adventist church, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Christadelphians, and others.