Reading the bible literally or figuratively... that is the question

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HopeinHim98

Well-known member
Mar 16, 2023
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#61
I just read part of the book again before lunch and see that the northern tribes called Israel and the southern tribes Judah were warned of judgement. This was prophesy about the surrounding nations being judged, then those tribes of Israel and Judah being held more accountable for all that God gave them. Because they were given much, more was expected of them. They lapsed into many major sins, like idolatry, so God spoke of judgement that would include them being conquered and dispersed into the world. They would go from the place that God established His written Word and preaching through His prophets. The land they were given would be handed over to pagan conquest. Many believe that was fulfilled in 70 AD.

There was a remnant of believers who will be reestablished in the land after Christ returns.

Do you have any thoughts about that passage?
I'm not sure, I haven't really studied it. But looking at it now, the beginning of chapter 8, after God shows Amos the basket of summer fruit, He says, "The end is come upon my people of Israel." A few verses later their sins are described, then God tells what His judgement will be. I'm guessing the famine for the Word maybe means they wouldn't have as many or any prophets warning like they had before?
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#62
I'm not sure, I haven't really studied it. But looking at it now, the beginning of chapter 8, after God shows Amos the basket of summer fruit, He says, "The end is come upon my people of Israel." A few verses later their sins are described, then God tells what His judgement will be. I'm guessing the famine for the Word maybe means they wouldn't have as many or any prophets warning like they had before?
There was over 400 years of silence from heaven between the last prophet and the teaching of Jesus. Sounds like it could be a famine.
 

HealthAndHappiness

Well-known member
Jul 7, 2022
10,298
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
#63
I'm not sure, I haven't really studied it. But looking at it now, the beginning of chapter 8, after God shows Amos the basket of summer fruit, He says, "The end is come upon my people of Israel." A few verses later their sins are described, then God tells what His judgement will be. I'm guessing the famine for the Word maybe means they wouldn't have as many or any prophets warning like they had before?
That makes sense.
The geographic/ national Israel has been without any prophets for 2,000 years since Jesus was rejected....AD 70 They were scattered. There was a reestablished nation called "Israel" in the last century, made up of unbelievers. Some are saved, but proportionally very few. The Jewish rabbis are lost and spiritually blind. They still reject Jesus and look for another christ.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,979
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#64
I believe Revelations is figurative. It's all a vision of John. I don't really believe it's 7 years. It could be a long tribulation that already started. But really I question the book of revelations because it's figurative with horses and trumpets. I don't believe it should be taken literal especially the 7 year thing. I know it says something like time times and a half in the original I don't like translations making it months. It's just too much to put in 7 years. I think world wars were the horses.
The book of Revelation is one very interesting and puzzling book.

John spends an entire chapter slamming the self proclaimed queen.

Revelation 18:4-7
I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive any of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her offenses. Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her. To the extent that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, to the same extent give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as a queen and I am not a widow, and will never see mourning.’

She views herself as a queen, not as a widow.

Then John says, 'Come out of her, my people'.

A country, an organization, a church, perhaps some combination of these?
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,979
871
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#65
That makes sense.
The geographic/ national Israel has been without any prophets for 2,000 years since Jesus was rejected....AD 70 They were scattered. There was a reestablished nation called "Israel" in the last century, made up of unbelievers. Some are saved, but proportionally very few. The Jewish rabbis are lost and spiritually blind. They still reject Jesus and look for another christ.
I personally, do not recognize modern Israel as related, in any way, to old covenant Israel.
 

Flannery

Active member
Mar 20, 2023
270
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#66
The book of Revelation is one very interesting and puzzling book.

John spends an entire chapter slamming the self proclaimed queen.

Revelation 18:4-7
I heard another voice from heaven, saying, “Come out of her, my people, so that you will not participate in her sins and receive any of her plagues; for her sins have piled up as high as heaven, and God has remembered her offenses. Pay her back even as she has paid, and give back to her double according to her deeds; in the cup which she has mixed, mix twice as much for her. To the extent that she glorified herself and lived luxuriously, to the same extent give her torment and mourning; for she says in her heart, ‘I sit as a queen and I am not a widow, and will never see mourning.’

She views herself as a queen, not as a widow.

Then John says, 'Come out of her, my people'.

A country, an organization, a church, perhaps some combination of these?
I don't think so, I think Jesus is literally in Heaven and John saw him in a vision. There's spiritual vision beyond what the Optics of Issaac Newton proports to explain, figurative thinkers put too much emphasis on perception, and knowledge and understanding of "vision". It's all psychology and perception anymore, churches that used to be really austere and pat themselves on the back for having successfully vandalized the High Alters of England while sniping at others who had a cross on a chain are now media moguls, filmmakers, tee shirt designers, cartoonists and video game developers, using prophecy charts, slide projectors, TV stations and radio drama for everything. I mean, I liked the felt board in Cradle Roll too, it was, like my favorite thing besides the handout with the illustrated memory verse. But walk by faith, not by sight.
 

BroTan

Active member
Sep 16, 2021
898
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43
#67
Recently, I had a casual chat with ChatGPT on how we should read the bible.
I gave an example from the book of Isaiah.
Please find the conversation below.


My view is to read the bible straightforwardly, as I do not want to interpret the bible the way I want to see it.
ChatGPT is so polite that it dances on the head of a pin, as you can see.

But, I want to know what your opinions are.

Kind regards,
James



Q. Prophet Isaiah talks about a peaceful time when lions and lambs graze grass together and the spears of war are used as farming equipment. What is the consensus on this picture among Christians? Do they take this literally or figuratively




A. The passage you are referring to is from Isaiah 11:6-9, which says:

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea."

Theologians have different opinions on whether this passage should be interpreted literally or figuratively. Some believe that it is a literal description of a future time when peace will reign over the earth, while others see it as a symbolic representation of the peace and harmony that will exist in the spiritual realm.
Those who interpret this passage literally usually believe that it refers to the millennial reign of Christ, a period of 1,000 years when Christ will rule the earth in righteousness and peace. During this time, the animal kingdom will be transformed, and even natural enemies like the lion and the lamb will live together in harmony.
On the other hand, those who interpret this passage figuratively see it as a metaphorical description of the spiritual transformation that will occur when the knowledge of the Lord fills the earth. They believe that the lion and lamb represent different aspects of human nature and that the peace described in this passage will come as a result of the transformation of the human heart.
Overall, there is no consensus among theologians on the interpretation of this passage, and it is ultimately up to each individual to study the text and come to their own conclusion.



Q. Some believe we are already living in the millennium. I don't see wolf and lamb dwelling together. do they believe the passage to be a metaphor?




A. Yes, some Christians believe that we are already living in the millennium, a period of time that began with the resurrection of Christ and will continue until his second coming. This view is known as amillennialism.
Amillennialists typically interpret the passage from Isaiah figuratively, seeing it as a symbolic representation of the peace that believers can experience in their hearts through faith in Christ. They believe that the prophecy is not meant to be understood literally, but rather as a poetic and prophetic expression of the coming age of peace and harmony.
In this view, the wolf and lamb dwelling together represent the reconciliation between God and humanity, and between people of different backgrounds and cultures. It is seen as a metaphorical representation of the peace that comes when people turn away from sin and turn toward God, and the love and compassion that flows from that transformation.
Overall, the interpretation of this passage depends on the theological perspective of the individual. While some Christians interpret it literally, others see it as a metaphorical expression of spiritual truths.

Well, if we where living in the millennium period, then Jesus would be here and the Great Tribulation would had already happen.
Let's take a look at something that would already had when if we in that period. Let's go to Revelation 19: 11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. 14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. 15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND Lord OF LORDS.
This would of been in history books, but none the less, this is future, haven't happen yet.

Reading and learning the Bible and actually being a hearer of the word and a doer of the word, make the world of difference. Jesus says in John 6: 63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. Surely most Christian loves God the Father Almighty! Surely most Christians love their Savior, Jesus Christ! But does every Christian wants to live by what Jesus says in (Luke:4:4) And Jesus answered him, saying, It is written, That man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God. Many fail to understand that the `New Covenant' includes a better way to implement the same set of laws that were given on Mt. Sinai, the Ten Commandments: (Jer.31:31-33) (v.31) Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: (v.32) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: (v.33) But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

In, (Is. 42:21) we find another prophecy concerning Christ and the law. It reads, (v.21) The LORD is well pleased for his righteousness' sake; he (Jesus) will magnify the law, and make it honourable. When you magnify something you enlarge it and bring it out more of its detail and richness. Jesus revealed the fulfillment of this prophecy when he explained, (Mat.5:27-28) (v.27) Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: (v.28) But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart

By magnifying the law and making it honorable, the spiritual intent of the law is now emphasized which goes far beyond the mere the physical intent. God has raised His standards, not lowered them! All God ever wanted was what was best for us! He designed us to be His children. We are happiest when we love and obey Him. He is a God who is totally righteous and holy. God cannot sin. And He wants us to follow in His footsteps. The person that says, (1 John:2:6) “that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to walk, even as he walked.”
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
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#68
I personally, do not recognize modern Israel as related, in any way, to old covenant Israel.

You might not, but God still does. I'd rather go with God's opinion over yours. At the very least, Israelites/Jews you see right now carry the seed of those who will realize that Jesus is the Messiah and will love and follow Him wholeheartedly.

 

Bruce_Leiter

Active member
Feb 17, 2023
427
192
43
#69
Recently, I had a casual chat with ChatGPT on how we should read the bible.
I gave an example from the book of Isaiah.
Please find the conversation below.


My view is to read the bible straightforwardly, as I do not want to interpret the bible the way I want to see it.
ChatGPT is so polite that it dances on the head of a pin, as you can see.

But, I want to know what your opinions are.

Kind regards,
James



Q. Prophet Isaiah talks about a peaceful time when lions and lambs graze grass together and the spears of war are used as farming equipment. What is the consensus on this picture among Christians? Do they take this literally or figuratively




A. The passage you are referring to is from Isaiah 11:6-9, which says:

"The wolf also shall dwell with the lamb,
The leopard shall lie down with the young goat,
The calf and the young lion and the fatling together;
And a little child shall lead them.
The cow and the bear shall graze;
Their young ones shall lie down together;
And the lion shall eat straw like the ox.
The nursing child shall play by the cobra’s hole,
And the weaned child shall put his hand in the viper’s den.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,
For the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the Lord As the waters cover the sea."

Theologians have different opinions on whether this passage should be interpreted literally or figuratively. Some believe that it is a literal description of a future time when peace will reign over the earth, while others see it as a symbolic representation of the peace and harmony that will exist in the spiritual realm.
Those who interpret this passage literally usually believe that it refers to the millennial reign of Christ, a period of 1,000 years when Christ will rule the earth in righteousness and peace. During this time, the animal kingdom will be transformed, and even natural enemies like the lion and the lamb will live together in harmony.
On the other hand, those who interpret this passage figuratively see it as a metaphorical description of the spiritual transformation that will occur when the knowledge of the Lord fills the earth. They believe that the lion and lamb represent different aspects of human nature and that the peace described in this passage will come as a result of the transformation of the human heart.
Overall, there is no consensus among theologians on the interpretation of this passage, and it is ultimately up to each individual to study the text and come to their own conclusion.



Q. Some believe we are already living in the millennium. I don't see wolf and lamb dwelling together. do they believe the passage to be a metaphor?




A. Yes, some Christians believe that we are already living in the millennium, a period of time that began with the resurrection of Christ and will continue until his second coming. This view is known as amillennialism.
Amillennialists typically interpret the passage from Isaiah figuratively, seeing it as a symbolic representation of the peace that believers can experience in their hearts through faith in Christ. They believe that the prophecy is not meant to be understood literally, but rather as a poetic and prophetic expression of the coming age of peace and harmony.
In this view, the wolf and lamb dwelling together represent the reconciliation between God and humanity, and between people of different backgrounds and cultures. It is seen as a metaphorical representation of the peace that comes when people turn away from sin and turn toward God, and the love and compassion that flows from that transformation.
Overall, the interpretation of this passage depends on the theological perspective of the individual. While some Christians interpret it literally, others see it as a metaphorical expression of spiritual truths.
That passage is Hebrew poetry, which is often figurative, which I believe it to be, but we'll all find out some day! You have to determine what kind of literature each passage is as part of good interpretation.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#70
That makes sense.
The geographic/ national Israel has been without any prophets for 2,000 years since Jesus was rejected....AD 70 They were scattered. There was a reestablished nation called "Israel" in the last century, made up of unbelievers. Some are saved, but proportionally very few. The Jewish rabbis are lost and spiritually blind. They still reject Jesus and look for another christ.
Please dont place the jewish people in a box. There are many different sects of the jewish people.
Believe it or not there have been a stedy increase in Messianic rabbis. Also Muslims are being transformed each day.
A great awaking is happening and even a greater one is coming.
Israel along with Egypt and Syria is mentioned to be GODs focus.
 

Karlon

Well-known member
Mar 8, 2023
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#71
I don't blame you for ignoring me, since I know very well how much you hate being corrected.
However, there is nothing silly about saying something did not preexist creation, though you
claim otherwise. The earth was formless and void after it was created.



Scripture says no such thing. People wander into much error right
off the bat, getting the first two sentences in the Bible wrong
.:oops:
here's a thought: why would someone say there's something formless & void if it isn't there? he or she must know that there's some thing existing! oxygen, carbon dioxide, helium& hydrogen are formless & void. all Christians shouldn't have any doubt in God's word. if God says it, that's it!!! Proverbs 3:5- "trust in God WITH ALL THINE HEART......"
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,328
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#72
here's a thought: why would someone say there's something formless & void if it isn't there? he or she must know that there's some thing existing! oxygen, carbon dioxide, helium& hydrogen are formless & void. all Christians shouldn't have any doubt in God's word. if God says it, that's it!!! Proverbs 3:5- "trust in God WITH ALL THINE HEART......"
I am not sure which angle you are coming at this from. Earth was formless and void after it was created.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,979
871
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#73
You might not, but God still does. I'd rather go with God's opinion over yours. At the very least, Israelites/Jews you see right now carry the seed of those who will realize that Jesus is the Messiah and will love and follow Him wholeheartedly.

I would assume that the old covenant has passed fully.

Physical Israel is no longer an elect nation, their house has been left desolate.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
60,328
29,575
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#75
But that was before the first day.
The Bible does not say that... In fact, the act of creation precedes our being told the Earth was formless and void.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness
was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2
 
Feb 4, 2023
38
19
8
#76
Thanks for your comment.

I just don't wanna be those guys in Jesus's days when Pharisees and Sadducees knew about the prophecy in the book of Micah 5:2 but didn't even bother going to see the birth of Jesus. Perhaps they interpreted the prophecy as a figurative one.

In terms of the creation of the universe in 6 days, I don't have any problem believing in the bible in the literal sense, as God is not limited by anything. If the bible said the universe was created in one day, I still would have believed it.

Am I too radical in saying this?
It is spiritual and you have to experience it for you to know. As you walk in Spirit, your eyes will be opened to what's happening in the spiritual realm, how most of God's word is being fulfilled spiritually and how it also happens to yourself. Even the returning of the Israelites (the exiles) scattered abroad and in Babylon is a spiritual thing. You will know once you experience it. Because the word of God is sealed and like a parable until God opens your eyes as you seek him with all your heart and with diligence. You wouldn't want to miss it.
 

2ndTimeIsTheCharm

Well-known member
Feb 17, 2023
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#77
I would assume that the old covenant has passed fully.

Physical Israel is no longer an elect nation, their house has been left desolate.

God's been protecting those people ever since they were brought back to their land just like He promised. Your opinion obviously doesn't matter to God. :)

 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,161
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#78
Is there a panoramic view of any recognizable patterns we can look to? Especially considering Moses was instructed to adhere to the prescribed pattern in the construction of the tabernacle, I'd think it would be prudent in comparing any literal measurements to that of the spiritual dimensions. After all, it is the Lord's plan is to create new heavens and a new earth.

I'm thinking in particular to "the kingdom of heaven is like leaven that a woman put into a loaf...(paraphrased)" which brings to mind the Christ's coming, and being "mixed" within the lump...
 

Flannery

Active member
Mar 20, 2023
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#79
I would assume that the old covenant has passed fully.

Physical Israel is no longer an elect nation, their house has been left desolate.
Physical Israel. That's one I've never heard anyone bring up before, although I have thought of it a few times. Because there are spiritual and national Israel, and for a long time national Israel was a scattered population. But one thing I'd be willing to put money on is that the geographical bounds and extents of Israel used to be a lot bigger than they are today. At the peak of the Kingdom's tenure, just before the split between Ahab and Jehosophat, I'll wager that the place as a place was much much larger than the Israelite state today.
 

Inquisitor

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2022
2,979
871
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#80
The Bible does not say that... In fact, the act of creation precedes our being told the Earth was formless and void.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. Now the earth was formless and void, and darkness
was over the surface of the deep. And the Spirit of God was hovering over the surface of the waters. Genesis 1:1-2
The text simply states that there was creative events, before the announcement of the first day.

It takes daytime and night time for the first day to occur.

The earth was definitely formless and void before there was light.

There was darkness over the depths before there was light.

Magenta, it is a simple text.