lord , teach us to pray

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Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,217
5,738
113
#1
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“Then drew near unto him all the publicans and sinners for to hear him.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭15:1‬ ‭

“And he taught them many things by parables, and said unto them in his doctrine,”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭4:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me. If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:16-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.

And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.

Give us day by day our daily bread.

And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

And he said unto them, Which of you shall have a friend, and shall go unto him at midnight, and say unto him, Friend, lend me three loaves; for a friend of mine in his journey is come to me, and I have nothing to set before him? And he from within shall answer and say, Trouble me not: the door is now shut, and my children are with me in bed; I cannot rise and give thee. I say unto you, Though he will not rise and give him, because he is his friend, yet because of his importunity he will rise and give him as many as he needeth.

And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent? Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion? If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭11:1-13‬ ‭

“And Jesus answering saith unto them, Have faith in God. For verily I say unto you, That whosoever shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; and shall not doubt in his heart, but shall believe that those things which he saith shall come to pass; he shall have whatsoever he saith.

Therefore I say unto you, What things soever ye desire, when ye pray, believe that ye receive them, and ye shall have them.

And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:22-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

consider what Jesus said about prayer these are only a couple examples but remember who is teaching them

“It is written in the prophets, And they shall be all taught of God. Every man therefore that hath heard, and hath learned of the Father, cometh unto me.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:45‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,162
432
83
Pennsylvania
#2
Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we also have forgiven our debtors;
13 And lead us not into the trial or testing, ( Tribulation )
But deliver us from evil one (antichrist)

This is my understanding and translation of the Lord's prayer. There is a definte article before the word tempation which changes the meaning to a trial or testing AKA tribulation. And besides the Lord does lead anyone into temptation. Last sentence can say evil or evil one.

We do not need to ask to be supplied with food or water!

31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek all these things; and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things shall be yours as well.

These scriptures is for those inside the tribulation and directed at Israel. We as christians should be grateful and thankful but we fully expect that our Lord will supply us our basic daily needs
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,217
5,738
113
#3
Our Father who art in heaven,
Hallowed be thy name.
10 Thy kingdom come,
Thy will be done,
On earth as it is in heaven.
11 Give us this day our daily bread
12 And forgive us our debts,
As we also have forgiven our debtors;
13 And lead us not into the trial or testing, ( Tribulation )
But deliver us from evil one (antichrist)

This is my understanding and translation of the Lord's prayer. There is a definte article before the word tempation which changes the meaning to a trial or testing AKA tribulation. And besides the Lord does lead anyone into temptation. Last sentence can say evil or evil one.

We do not need to ask to be supplied with food or water!

31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek all these things; and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things shall be yours as well.

These scriptures is for those inside the tribulation and directed at Israel. We as christians should be grateful and thankful but we fully expect that our Lord will supply us our basic daily needs
ahh I see well thanks for your opinion there God bless

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,723
596
113
#4
Thread Topic
lord , teach us to pray

This is referring to the Lord's prayer -----

There is much controversy as to if True Christians should be praying this Prayer now ---many churches still pray this prayer every Sunday ----

Many pray this prayer and have no idea what the real meaning of the Prayer is -----they are just repeating words ---

God has a problem with vain repetitive prayers -----

1683225594568.jpeg

Greek word for VAIN
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3155 mátēn (an adverb) – properly, "aimlessly"; pointless, without ground or any real purpose (fruitfulness). See 3152 (mataios).

I say
I definitely have a problem with certain Verses in the Lord's Prayer being Prayed today ----as it has already been done ----Jesus was teaching the Disciples under the Old Covenant how they should pray ------the Disciples were under the Laws of Moses -----

True Christians are not under the Old Covenant ways now ---we are under the New Covenant Of Grace ------For instance ----we need not ask to have our sins Forgiven as Jesus paid the Price for that and by repeating this prayer we are in fact saying we don't believe Jesus shed His blood to forgive our sins ------

The prayer says ---lead us not into temptation -----but deliver us from Evil -------

Jesus defeated Satan's hold on us so we are already delivered from Evil -----keeping ourselves from Satan's grip is now on us ----God did His Part ----the Scripture tells us how to Make Satan Flee from Us -----we have to Follow God's How ------

God"s Grace has changed the way we receive Forgiveness which is by Faith in Jesus accomplished on the Cross ----

by True Christians praying this Prayer we are in fact saying that this prayer is as good as what Jesus did on the Cross for us -----and that is just not acceptable ------

Jesus never Himself Never Prayed this Prayer as He was Sinless --

-and Today any Born Again Christian who Has Received Jesus and Has the Holy Spirit indwelling in them ---Has Had their Past Present and future Sins forgiven and are Holy and Heaven Bound-----we are Hidden in Christ ------

So for me ------Praying this prayer is in vain for True Believers ------
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,162
432
83
Pennsylvania
#5
I think what we call the Lord's prayer should be called the Tribulation prayer
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#6
I love the Lord's prayer. It should be learned, and serve as a model for daily prayer. Its beautiful and simple, and loaded with meaning and depth.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,381
6,674
113
62
#7
O, Lord...Teach Me to Pray

Sometimes I'm troubled, weary, and down.
My mind says just smile, but I still wear a frown.
I am so disheartened, try as I may.
O, Lord, at this time, teach me to pray.

Sometimes I'm angry, and filled with hate.
Whatever I say does only berate.
It would be better to stay out of my way.
O, Lord, at this time, teach me to pray.

Sometimes I'm unsettled, bewildered, alone.
My heart does ache and my soul does groan.
I open my mouth, but don't know what to say.
O, Lord, at this time, teach me to pray.

Sometimes I'm happy, elated, and glad.
My heart is content, and joyfully clad.
My life is going well; nothing in disarray.
O, Lord, at this time, teach me to pray.

Sometimes I'm thankful, giving, and kind.
No matter what happens I really don’t mind.
It could be raining and the sky a pale grey--
O, Lord, at this time, teach me to pray.

Wherever I am and whatever I do,
Teach me, O Lord, to truly seek you.
From this moment on, each and every day,
O, Lord, at all times, teach me to pray.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,217
5,738
113
#8
Thread Topic
lord , teach us to pray

This is referring to the Lord's prayer -----

There is much controversy as to if True Christians should be praying this Prayer now ---many churches still pray this prayer every Sunday ----

Many pray this prayer and have no idea what the real meaning of the Prayer is -----they are just repeating words ---

God has a problem with vain repetitive prayers -----

View attachment 250897

Greek word for VAIN
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3155 mátēn (an adverb) – properly, "aimlessly"; pointless, without ground or any real purpose (fruitfulness). See 3152 (mataios).

I say
I definitely have a problem with certain Verses in the Lord's Prayer being Prayed today ----as it has already been done ----Jesus was teaching the Disciples under the Old Covenant how they should pray ------the Disciples were under the Laws of Moses -----

True Christians are not under the Old Covenant ways now ---we are under the New Covenant Of Grace ------For instance ----we need not ask to have our sins Forgiven as Jesus paid the Price for that and by repeating this prayer we are in fact saying we don't believe Jesus shed His blood to forgive our sins ------

The prayer says ---lead us not into temptation -----but deliver us from Evil -------

Jesus defeated Satan's hold on us so we are already delivered from Evil -----keeping ourselves from Satan's grip is now on us ----God did His Part ----the Scripture tells us how to Make Satan Flee from Us -----we have to Follow God's How ------

God"s Grace has changed the way we receive Forgiveness which is by Faith in Jesus accomplished on the Cross ----

by True Christians praying this Prayer we are in fact saying that this prayer is as good as what Jesus did on the Cross for us -----and that is just not acceptable ------

Jesus never Himself Never Prayed this Prayer as He was Sinless --

-and Today any Born Again Christian who Has Received Jesus and Has the Holy Spirit indwelling in them ---Has Had their Past Present and future Sins forgiven and are Holy and Heaven Bound-----we are Hidden in Christ ------

So for me ------Praying this prayer is in vain for True Believers ------
Jesus taught many things about prayer was the idea the gospel is God teaching us
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,217
5,738
113
#10
O, Lord...Teach Me to Pray

Sometimes I'm troubled, weary, and down.
My mind says just smile, but I still wear a frown.
I am so disheartened, try as I may.
O, Lord, at this time, teach me to pray.

Sometimes I'm angry, and filled with hate.
Whatever I say does only berate.
It would be better to stay out of my way.
O, Lord, at this time, teach me to pray.

Sometimes I'm unsettled, bewildered, alone.
My heart does ache and my soul does groan.
I open my mouth, but don't know what to say.
O, Lord, at this time, teach me to pray.

Sometimes I'm happy, elated, and glad.
My heart is content, and joyfully clad.
My life is going well; nothing in disarray.
O, Lord, at this time, teach me to pray.

Sometimes I'm thankful, giving, and kind.
No matter what happens I really don’t mind.
It could be raining and the sky a pale grey--
O, Lord, at this time, teach me to pray.

Wherever I am and whatever I do,
Teach me, O Lord, to truly seek you.
From this moment on, each and every day,
O, Lord, at all times, teach me to pray.
that is lovely brother I really enjoy lyrics and poetry thank you for sharing that what a wonderful read and design
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,217
5,738
113
#13
Thread Topic
lord , teach us to pray

This is referring to the Lord's prayer -----

There is much controversy as to if True Christians should be praying this Prayer now ---many churches still pray this prayer every Sunday ----

Many pray this prayer and have no idea what the real meaning of the Prayer is -----they are just repeating words ---

God has a problem with vain repetitive prayers -----

View attachment 250897

Greek word for VAIN
HELPS Word-studies
Cognate: 3155 mátēn (an adverb) – properly, "aimlessly"; pointless, without ground or any real purpose (fruitfulness). See 3152 (mataios).

I say
I definitely have a problem with certain Verses in the Lord's Prayer being Prayed today ----as it has already been done ----Jesus was teaching the Disciples under the Old Covenant how they should pray ------the Disciples were under the Laws of Moses -----

True Christians are not under the Old Covenant ways now ---we are under the New Covenant Of Grace ------For instance ----we need not ask to have our sins Forgiven as Jesus paid the Price for that and by repeating this prayer we are in fact saying we don't believe Jesus shed His blood to forgive our sins ------

The prayer says ---lead us not into temptation -----but deliver us from Evil -------

Jesus defeated Satan's hold on us so we are already delivered from Evil -----keeping ourselves from Satan's grip is now on us ----God did His Part ----the Scripture tells us how to Make Satan Flee from Us -----we have to Follow God's How ------

God"s Grace has changed the way we receive Forgiveness which is by Faith in Jesus accomplished on the Cross ----

by True Christians praying this Prayer we are in fact saying that this prayer is as good as what Jesus did on the Cross for us -----and that is just not acceptable ------

Jesus never Himself Never Prayed this Prayer as He was Sinless --

-and Today any Born Again Christian who Has Received Jesus and Has the Holy Spirit indwelling in them ---Has Had their Past Present and future Sins forgiven and are Holy and Heaven Bound-----we are Hidden in Christ ------

So for me ------Praying this prayer is in vain for True Believers ------
“God"s Grace has changed the way we receive Forgiveness which is by Faith in Jesus accomplished on the Cross ----“

your saying if I believe Jesus died for my sins on the cross I don’t need to obey what he said about forgiving others ?

So because of grace your saying this isn’t true ?

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:

but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Your position is that the son of God teaching believers about Thier father and how he will treat them is not correct because of grace ?

“For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:

when you start thinking grace means we don’t need to accept jesus teachings it’s not of God , and when faith means we don’t need to hear and believe the lords word it’s not of God
 

studentoftheword

Well-known member
Nov 12, 2021
1,723
596
113
#16
your saying if I believe Jesus died for my sins on the cross I don’t need to obey what he said about forgiving others ?
no that is not what I am saying -------the Lords Prayer says ----as Quoted by you in the OP -- And forgive us our sins;----

-I am saying that the forgiveness of Sins is different ----the Covenant of Grace has changed the way forgiveness of sins is done ------it is now by Faith in the Blood of Jesus not by animal sacrifice -----Sin has been dealt with -----so by Praying forgive our sins in the Lords prayer --you are actually slapping God in His Face ----as your ignoring that His Blood has already forgiven all sin for all people ----your actually saying you don't believe Jesus Blood was effective and so your still asking for forgiveness of your sins ---when you pray this prayer ----

-Not good for Born Again People to be praying this section of the Lords Prayer

This prayer was given as an example under the Old Testament Laws -----Reject Jesus now and your sins are not forgiven ---Period ---your hell bound ----
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#17
The thing about forgiving others is that a truely repentant person is compelled in his inner most to deal mercifully with others. Because He knows the wretchedness of his own sin and has pity on othee transgressors.
Yall take forgive others as a command rather than a state of the regenerate person.
If you know the rotteness of your own sin amd desire mercy then you will recognize that others are exactly as you, both injured and trapped and weak and sorrowfull, and you will be mercifull.
Forgive other is not a law to obey it is a natural law that follows.
 
L

Locoponydirtman

Guest
#18
The forgive others statement is just as the decalogue, King James turned them into commands, but they are the nature of the sanctified. If you recognize God in the first the others follow, because you will see your nieghbor as yourself.
I wish folks would stop with the directives making laws out of mercy. But would rather let these words change our inner being and conform us to them. Stop working, start dealing honestly with yourself in the light of the Word.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,217
5,738
113
#19
The thing about forgiving others is that a truely repentant person is compelled in his inner most to deal mercifully with others. Because He knows the wretchedness of his own sin and has pity on othee transgressors.
Yall take forgive others as a command rather than a state of the regenerate person.
If you know the rotteness of your own sin amd desire mercy then you will recognize that others are exactly as you, both injured and trapped and weak and sorrowfull, and you will be mercifull.
Forgive other is not a law to obey it is a natural law that follows.
“Yall take forgive others as a command rather than a state of the regenerate person.”

yeah everybody seems to have thier own version of how to explain things yours is appreciated .
In the end this is true of people who believe in Jesus

“For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or bad.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭5:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

because that’s true we should take what he said seriously like this couldn’t be clearer



but if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭6:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬

We can say th is isn’t a command it’s a result of a regenerated person but hearin and accepting it is what changes the persons thinking and understanding of God

“if so be that ye have heard him, and have been taught by him, as the truth is in Jesus: that ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; and be renewed in the spirit of your mind; and that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:21-24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That change doesn’t happen because someone explains it away and refuses to accept it the bottom line is of a Christian doesn’t feel like forgiving doesn’t matter they have to forgive others . If they do they have Jesus promise of forgivness if they don’t they have Jesus word saying they won’t be forgiven repeatedly

“And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses. But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭11:25-26‬ ‭KJV‬‬

there’s no new explaination that matters or is going to alter this in any way it’s not a suggestion it’s a command with two results you forgive you’ll be forgiven you refuse to forgive you won’t be forgiven

hearing it and believing it is what changes how we think about forgivness we don’t forgive because we just feel like it we forgive because God has told us of a blessing and a curse that will result

you forgive you’ll be forgiven you refuse to forgive you won’t be that’s what the lord said about it

you know this guy

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

How could hearing and accepting Jesus word give us no condemnation ? Because he taught it

Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Judge not, and ye shall not be judged:

condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned:

forgive, and ye shall be forgiven:

give, and it shall be given unto you; good measure, pressed down, and shaken together, and running over, shall be given into your bosom. For with the same measure that ye mete withal it shall be measured to you again.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭6:36-38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Pretty easy to see how hearin and believing what Jesus was teaching leads to no condemnation and forgivness and mercy

Because no one is perfect we must be merciful in order to be saved some people are natural forgiving others are natural grudge bearers this teaching is for the grudge bearers among Jesus disciples it’s meant to snap hen out of a behavior that’s leading them to death and condemnation

In the end it only actually matters what Jesus taught his disciples when it comes to salvation because those are the words of man’s eternal judgement

we can accept the gospel and live or reject it and be judged by it

When Jesus said what he said it’s this

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

when Jesus said this it’s almighty God saying it

But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.”

we can talk about the semantical argue ta of the modern grace doctrine and say “it’s not required it’s just what born again people do “ but that’s just a way to avoid accepting it as he said it

If we won’t forgive we need to hear and accept it if we’re forgiving people we need to hear it also because it’s affirming and promising forgivness

“For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:”

Hearing and believing comes before being born again it’s actually what causes the new birth to hear and believe the gospel