The Trinity...my take.

[heartwashed]

defining the trinity?

I wish you well, as the finite cannot comprehend, much less define
The Infinite!:

This I do know, from His Creation:

1) three atoms = electron, proton, and neutron = one molecule

2) three = time, space, and matter = one universe

3) three = body, and soul, and spirit = one human being (1Thes 5:23)
+

"For there are Three That Bear Record in heaven, The Father,
The Word, And The Holy Ghost: and These Three Are ONE."
(1 John 5:7)

Since God's Word Of Truth Is Inspired and Preserved, That's Good
Enough for me. Amen.

I think that it is important that we understand the specifics of a doctrine if we can possibly do so.

And I understand this doctrine.

Gal 1:11, But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man.
Gal 1:12, For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Eph 3:3, How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
Eph 3:4, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)

 

[heartwashed]

Nehemiah6:

That is not the point. We are rejecting "the SAME Spirit" idea, which is more or less the heresy of Modalism. "The Word" (Logos) was a distinct Person from God the Father (John 1:1) and He was also God. We see Him as "the Son of Man" in Daniel 7 while we see God the Father as "the Ancient of Days". TWO DISTINCT PERSONS!
We also see Him as "the Angel of the LORD" in many OT passages. So "the SAME Spirit" did not present Himself in various modes. And it was not "the SAME Spirit" at the baptism of Jesus of Nazareth either. And now that He is the glorified MAN CHRIST JESUS in Heaven, this idea is even more unacceptable.

"The same Spirit" idea fits within the doctrine of the Trinity the way that I have explained it (and is not modalism).

I have preached three distinct Persons in the OP.

 

[Nehemiah6]

That is mormon doctrine.

No it is not. Mormon doctrine speaks of three PERSONAGES (all in human form) appearing to Joseph Smith. The Bible speaks of three distinct divine Persons. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of [1] the Father, and of [2] the Son, and of [3] the Holy Ghost (Mt 28:19 KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, [1] the Father, [2] the Word, and [3] the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7 KJV), We could not have this it is was "the SAME Spirit".

Also even though Jesus said "God is a Spirit" we see God the Father presented in human for in Daniel and Revelation. So there is much more to this.

 

[Nehemiah6]

If Jesus is not the same Spirit, then He is a different spirit.

Since Jesus is now "the MAN Christ Jesus" He is not "the same Spirit".

However, there is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4) who is God (John 4:24).

This is a good example of misapplying Scripture. Here "the one Spirit" is God the Holy Spirit. Therefore we also have "one Lord" (Christ) and "one God and Father of all"! So in fact this passage REFUTES your false doctrine.

 

[heartwashed]

No it is not. Mormon doctrine speaks of three PERSONAGES (all in human form) appearing to Joseph Smith. The Bible speaks of three distinct divine Persons. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of [1] the Father, and of [2] the Son, and of [3] the Holy Ghost (Mt 28:19 KJV) For there are three that bear record in heaven, [1] the Father, [2] the Word, and [3] the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7 KJV), We could not have this it is was "the SAME Spirit".

Also even though Jesus said "God is a Spirit" we see God the Father presented in human for in Daniel and Revelation. So there is much more to this.

from
https://www.google.com/search?q=thr...39j0i512l8.4377j0j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

What are the 3 gods in Mormon?

Three distinct beings

The Church's first Article of Faith states, “We believe in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost.” We believe They are three distinct personages, not one singular being. We call Them the Godhead.

 

[heartwashed]

For there are three that bear record in heaven, [1] the Father, [2] the Word, and [3] the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. (1 John 5:7 KJV), We could not have this it is was "the SAME Spirit".

We can have it with them being the same Spirit...these three are ONE.

 

[heartwashed]

Since Jesus is now "the MAN Christ Jesus" He is not "the same Spirit".
This is a good example of misapplying Scripture. Here "the one Spirit" is God the Holy Spirit. Therefore we also have "one Lord" (Christ) and "one God and Father of all"! So in fact this passage REFUTES your false doctrine.

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4); the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (John 4:24; Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:39, 2 Timothy 1:14).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5); the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6); the Father (1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv)), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33; John 8:24), and the Holy Ghost (Acts 5:3-4, Romans 8:26-27).

I write this in obedience to the exhortation,

Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

You should consider Ephesians 4:4-6, and 1 Corinthians 12:4-6, in light of this information.

Because I think that it will change your perspective

Again (this time without accompanying scripture):

There is one Spirit; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

There is one Lord; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

There is one God; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

 

[heartwashed]

Since Jesus is now "the MAN Christ Jesus" He is not "the same Spirit".
This is a good example of misapplying Scripture. Here "the one Spirit" is God the Holy Spirit. Therefore we also have "one Lord" (Christ) and "one God and Father of all"! So in fact this passage REFUTES your false doctrine.

God is a Spirit (John 4:24).

If Jesus therefore is not a Spirit, then He isn't God.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

same in being, same in essence', from ὁμός, homós, "same" and οὐσία, ousía, "being" or "essence") (ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί) with God, the Father:
The Greek word ousia, which is translated into English as “essence.” The essence of something is that which makes it what it is:

Everything Else is the Same, according to the 4th Century Creeds.
Some how Modern Trinity has changed from how it once was Defined.
hmmmmmmmm, need to rethink this..

 

[heartwashed]

same in being, same in essence', from ὁμός, homós, "same" and οὐσία, ousía, "being" or "essence") (ὁμοούσιον τῷ Πατρί) with God, the Father:
The Greek word ousia, which is translated into English as “essence.” The essence of something is that which makes it what it is:

Everything Else is the Same, according to the 4th Century Creeds.
Some how Modern Trinity has changed from how it once was Defined.
hmmmmmmmm, need to rethink this..

yes.

There is a heretical diagram out there, circulating through the body of Christ, that teaches that,

"the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost"

but this diagram sets forth the members of the Godhead as being separate rather than distinct.

Now, in the creeds we have the doctrine that "we are forbidden by Catholic doctrine to say that there are three Lords."

It is clear from holy scripture that the Father is Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18), the Son is Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Spirit is Lord (2 Corinthians 3:17).

But if the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost,

then they are separate;

and therefore they are not one Lord.

What other number can we apply to them than the number three?

Thus the diagram portrays the members of the Godhead as three Lords; which is contrary to the creeds.

It is therefore a heretical diagram.

If you believed in it at one time, don't fret.

All you have to do is repent and believe in the truth of the matter.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

yes.

There is a heretical diagram out there, circulating through the body of Christ, that teaches that,

"the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost"

but this diagram sets forth the members of the Godhead as being separate rather than distinct.

Now, in the creeds we have the doctrine that "we are forbidden by Catholic doctrine to say that there are three Lords."

It is clear from holy scripture that the Father is Lord (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21, 2 Corinthians 6:17-18), the Son is Lord (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Spirit is Lord (2 Corinthians 3:17).

But if the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost,

then they are separate;

and therefore they are not one Lord.

What other number can we apply to them than the number three?

Thus the diagram portrays the members of the Godhead as three Lords; which is contrary to the creeds.

It is therefore a heretical diagram.

If you believed in it at one time, don't fret.

All you have to do is repent and believe in the truth of the matter.

I only mentioned what I did because in the 4th Century they understood Greek as good as we know English. And the Church Fathers knew Greek and it's meaning from the direct Sources, the Apostles. And they defined it Essence, as complete whole Being and exact replica, which would include Spirit. But now, it is not even close to that definition. Something doesn't compute at all.

 

[heartwashed]

I only mentioned what I did because in the 4th Century they understood Greek as good as we know English. And the Church Fathers knew Greek and it's meaning from the direct Sources, the Apostles. And they defined it Essence, as complete whole Being and exact replica, which would include Spirit. But now, it is not even close to that definition. Something doesn't compute at all.

yes, I believe that essence and Spirit are referring to the same thing in the creeds and elsewhere.

 

[heartwashed]

This is incorrect. They all are not "the same Spirit" but three distinct divine Persons.

Yes, the OP declares that they are three distinct divine Persons.

Nevertheless, they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4).

 

[heartwashed]

You are mistakenly assuming that your view is biblical but it is not. So count me as one of the "naysayers" who rejects your false idea of who God is.

I think that I have already exposed you as believing a doctrine of mormonism concerning the Trinity. So, if you reject my idea, it is because you hold to a false idea of who God is.

 

[heartwashed]

I think that I have already exposed you as believing a doctrine of mormonism concerning the Trinity.

(In that you have said that it is acceptable to call them three "beings")

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

yes, I believe that essence and Spirit are referring to the same thing in the creeds and elsewhere.

That is what the Creeds do explicitly claim. And the other Member, involved in the conversation, is claiming, from the Apostles until Now, it has gone in Meaning from SAME Everything to completely Separate.

Clearly, the modern day views are nowhere close.
I have to say, they are down right Incorrect, going by the Creeds.

 

[HeIsHere]

Well that is the closest term that you can apply. One could say "beings" instead but "persons" is well recognized and completely acceptable.

"Persona" to "persons" are words with different meanings.

Just like metanoia was translated as paenitentia which came to mean penance or acts of penance that had to done which then became repent which does not really line up well with the meaning of metanoia.

 

[HeIsHere]

While your point is sound, you would do well to consider the source of the criticism. You're new here, so you likely don't know that Angela is one of the most studious and well-educated among us. If she is calling your position 'heretical', it very likely is heretical.

Education does not necessarily mean there will be objective analysis and critical thinking, more often that not it only seeks to reinforce already accepted ideas especially with sacrosanct doctrines.

And I am not saying that God is, or is not three persons but surely very few ever take a deep dive to reexamine these beliefs handed down through the ages.

And also this is appeal to authority of sorts.

 

[CS1]

Here is how I define the Trinity.

The Father is a Spirit without flesh inhabiting eternity (John 4:23-24, Isaiah 57:15).

The Son is the same Spirit come in flesh (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4, 1 John 4:1-3, 2 John 1:7).

The Holy Ghost is the same Spirit as He is released from the physical body of the Son at His crucifixion (Luke 23:46).

(For God is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4, John 4:24).)

The Holy Ghost being distinct from the Father in that He has lived the human life of Christ and therefore has an experiential understanding of humanity.

The Son being distinct from the Father and the Holy Ghost in that He is come in flesh (while the Father and the Holy Ghost also dwell in the Person of the Son, Colossians 2:9).

I believe that the Son was begotten in the incarnation (Luke 1:35); which does not make it impossible that He is pre-existent.

For He ascended to fill all things (Ephesians 4:10); even to exist outside of time.

For in the Bible codes of Genesis 1 it can be determined that there are ten dimensions in reality. The risen and ascended Son fills all ten. So, He is far above the fourth dimension; which is time. Therefore Jesus exists outside of time.

And because He exists outside of time, His existence extends into eternity past.

Thus, the Father created the worlds through Jesus Christ; since Christ existed in the beginning;

While the beginning of His life (as the Son in flesh) happened at the juncture of Luke 1:35.

Some have tried to define this theology as not being the Trinity by giving it the label of "Coexistent Modalism".

I think that such is a slander on the doctrine.

I developed this doctrine as an emphasis on the Oneness of God in the Trinity, as a response to mormon theology; which has also infiltrated the minds of some who call themselves Trinitarians; that there are three beings who are God;

i.e. that the Father IS NOT the Son IS NOT the Holy Ghost.

I would declare that they are the same Spirit (John 4:24, Ephesians 4:4) and therefore, also, in a specific sense, the same Person.

While they are also three distinct Persons according to the beginning statements of this post.

I can see you may not be here very long.

First off, no one can fully comprehend the Eternal Godhead. God is limitless, and we who are limited can only know the Nature of God by the ways he provides; they are Revelations:

1. General Revelation His creation
2. Special Revelation His word
3. Revelation to us by Relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ through the Holy Spirit.

The Spirit of Christ is Eternal and was with the Father from the beginning. We know this because Jesus said so. And the Father also said,' This is my Son whom I am well pleased. Nothing Jesus did was without the Holy Spirit, for he relied on the Holy Spirit as the God-Man, fully God and Fully man.

You, sir, are trying to reduce the Devine Nature of God to fit your understanding. That is your biggest mistake.

You are errored in your approach to the Eternal Godhead.

 

[Nehemiah6]

"Persona" to "persons" are words with different meanings.

It makes no difference. A person is an individual, and each person of the Godhead is a DISTINCT divine individual. God the Father and God the Holy Spirit are divine Spirit beings. Not "the same Spirit". We need to always keep in mind that no human being can fully fathom the triune Godhead. But that they are all distinct from each other is clearly presented at the baptism of Jesus of Nazareth -- the one who was "the Word" who became "flesh" and dwelt among us.