The Trinity...my take.

[heartwashed]

Now, I have answered your question. So, you can answer my questions.

 

[VARob]

Yes. You had better believe it since your salvation depends on it.

Where does the Bible say a person must believe God is a Trinity in order to be saved?

Is God the Father God?

Yes. In fact, according to Jesus Christ and Paul, the Father is the only true God (John 17:3; 1 Cor 8:6).

Is Jesus the Son God?

Absolutely.

Is the Holy Spirit God? Absolutely.

Yes, God is at times called "the Holy Spirit".

 

[CS1]

I do not teach that you are not saved if you have not been baptized in Jesus' Name. I let the scriptures (Acts 2:39 and Romans 8:30) speak for themselves.

What do you think they are saying to you?

YOu do not teach, huh? I think that is a little cowardly in a weak answer to the question.

So I will ask you again. The fact you do not teach, one is not saved unless they are Baptized in Jesus' name. That would mean all who were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, their baptisms are not valid by your understanding of scripture?

Would that be correct?

 

[CS1]

In more of an answer to your question, I believe that Matthew 28:19 baptism is valid if you also acknowledge that the singular name in that passage is "Jesus Christ" according to Acts 2:38.

weak answer

 

[heartwashed]

weak answer

2Co 12:9, And he said unto me, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities, that the power of Christ may rest upon me.

 

[heartwashed]

YOu do not teach, huh? I think that is a little cowardly in a weak answer to the question.

So I will ask you again. The fact you do not teach, one is not saved unless they are Baptized in Jesus' name. That would mean all who were baptized in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, their baptisms are not valid by your understanding of scripture?

Would that be correct?

What did I say before?

Those who acknowledge the name have received salvation. Acts 4:10-12.

 

[heartwashed]

Where does the Bible say a person must believe God is a Trinity in order to be saved?

It doesn't. The word "Trinity" isn't even mentioned in the Bible.

The Deity of Christ, on the other hand, is said to be an essential for salvation (John 8:24; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33; Hebrews 1:8-9)

 

[CS1]

In more of an answer to your question, I believe that Matthew 28:19 baptism is valid if you also acknowledge that the singular name in that passage is "Jesus Christ" according to Acts 2:38.

I have, in fact, answered that in the thread In Jesus' name, where I said both were valid.

 

[heartwashed]

I have, in fact, answered that in the thread In Jesus' name, where I said both were valid.

If baptized according to Matthew 28:19, you must acknowledge that the singular name of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, is "Jesus Christ" in order to be saved.

 

[CS1]

It doesn't. The word "Trinity" isn't even mentioned in the Bible.

The Deity of Christ, on the other hand, is said to be an essential for salvation (John 8:24; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59, John 10:31-33; Hebrews 1:8-9)

the word Trinity nor is Rapture, yet the Concept of the Trinity is there, and so is the term "Godhead. "


Do you think you can fully know the Eternal Godhead? The Godhead is speaking of three that are one. Mock the Trinity all you like.

 

[CS1]

If baptized according to Matthew 28:19, you must acknowledge that the singular name of Father, Son, and Holy Ghost, is "Jesus Christ" in order to be saved.

no, that is not what the full scriptures teach. You are using one verse in the whole New Testament found in Acts 2:38. Jesus did not say that either in Matthew 28:9.

You are wrong on that, and pride has you unwilling to see it. In fact, may Oneness and those like you have just opened up about baptism in the name of F, S, and H because they could no longer defend in Jesus' name only.

 

[heartwashed]

no, that is not what the full scriptures teach. You are using one verse in the whole New Testament found in Acts 2:38. Jesus did not say that either in Matthew 28:9.

You are wrong on that, and pride has you unwilling to see it. In fact, may Oneness and those like you have just opened up about baptism in the name of F, S, and H because they could no longer defend in Jesus' name only.

There is one name under heaven given among men by which we must be saved (Jesus Christ of Nazareth); and therefore, if the name is not acknowledged, salvation does not occur.

While there is salvation in water baptism in Jesus' Name (1 Peter 3:20-21, Ezekiel 36:25-27, Romans 6:1-4; Acts 2:38-39).

And in allowing for salvation through Matthew 28:19 baptism, I am trying to be lenient.

 

[heartwashed]

the word Trinity nor is Rapture, yet the Concept of the Trinity is there, and so is the term "Godhead. "


Do you think you can fully know the Eternal Godhead? The Godhead is speaking of three that are one. Mock the Trinity all you like.

Beside the point. The point is that since "Trinity" is not mentioned, the Bible cannot say that believing in the Trinity is essential for salvation.

I believe in the Trinity, personally.

I am certainly NOT mocking it.

 

[Blain]

The risen Christ is, in effect, the Father in flesh (John 14:7-11, Isaiah 9:6).

So, the pre-existent Word, being the Father also (John 1:1) "and the Word was God"...was also with the Father...

In that the Father did not VACATE ETERNITY when He descended to take on an added nature of human flesh.

So, when He ascended, He ascended to exist next to His pre-incarnate form.

I will say according to 1 Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6, and James 3:9 (kjv), that God is the Father;

And therefore, if the Son is God (and He is), then He is also the Father (come in flesh)....Isaiah 9:6.

I may not be here very long because of my doctrine...

And you say that I am not being persecuted for righteousness' sake...

I would say that it is exactly the case; because my doctrine is indeed sound.

Actually Cs1 is very fair amd wouldn't say what he did for no good reason mainly he is making a prediction here and if I had to guess it would likely be die to the conduct or how you carry yourself.

 

[heartwashed]

Actually Cs1 is very fair amd wouldn't say what he did for no good reason mainly he is making a prediction here and if I had to guess it would likely be die to the conduct or how you carry yourself.

How am I carrying myself that is so bad?

Is it that I often quote the scriptures to substantiate my points; which can be construed as preaching?

I am not going to repent of doing that which can brig salvation to people's hearts; for it is righteousness and not iniquity.

 

[VARob]

It doesn't. The word "Trinity" isn't even mentioned in the Bible.

Agreed. Nor is God ever described as "three Persons of the same Divine Essence."

The Deity of Christ, on the other hand, is said to be an essential for salvation

So Jesus was wrong when he said he was a man who learned from God (John 8:40), and when he said his Father is "the only true God" (John 17:3)? Paul was wrong when he said for us there is one God, the Father (1 Cor 8:6)?

(John 8:24; John 8:58, Exodus 3:14; John 8:59,

It's a false paradigm to try and associate where Jesus said "ego eimi" with Exo 3:14. They are simply words of self identification. Jesus was identifying himself as the Messiah. What we must believe is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31). If we do not believe that Jesus is the Christ, we will die in our sins.

John 10:31-33;

Jesus spoke for God, with the authority and backing of God. In that sense he was making himself God.

Hebrews 1:8-9)

An alternate translation of Heb 1:8 is "Your throne is God." The power behing Jesus Christ is God.
Concerning Heb 1:9, God does not have a God, but Jesus Christ does.

I'm not going to say any more. I know the rules of this forum. A person can believe whatever they want (nobody can stop them..), but if a person argues too much for a position the admins of this forum have deemed "heresy," they'll be banned. There are lots of other things to talk about... Later.

 

[Blain]

How am I carrying myself that is so bad?

Is it that I often quote the scriptures to substantiate my points; which can be construed as preaching?

I am not going to repent of doing that which can brig salvation to people's hearts; for it is righteousness and not iniquity.

See that right there is you carrying yourself and not in a good way.

No it is not because of the scriptures you keep posting it is the way you think so highly of yourself and your teachings which by the way is not preaching spouting your doctrine is not preaching

 

[Blain]

Agreed. Nor is God ever described as "three Persons of the same Divine Essence."


So Jesus was wrong when he said he was a man who learned from God (John 8:40), and when he said his Father is "the only true God" (John 17:3)? Paul was wrong when he said for us there is one God, the Father (1 Cor 8:6)?


It's a false paradigm to try and associate where Jesus said "ego eimi" with Exo 3:14. They are simply words of self identification. Jesus was identifying himself as the Messiah. What we must believe is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31). If we do not believe that Jesus is the Christ, we will die in our sins.


Jesus spoke for God, with the authority and backing of God. In that sense he was making himself God.


An alternate translation of Heb 1:8 is "Your throne is God." The power behing Jesus Christ is God.
Concerning Heb 1:9, God does not have a God, but Jesus Christ does.

I'm not going to say any more. I know the rules of this forum. A person can believe whatever they want (nobody can stop them..), but if a person argues too much for a position the admins of this forum have deemed "heresy," they'll be banned. There are lots of other things to talk about... Later.

My only response to this is only God can forgive sins so when Jesus forgave peoples sins if he was not also God then he just slapped God directly in the face

 

[heartwashed]

So Jesus was wrong when he said he was a man who learned from God (John 8:40), and when he said his Father is "the only true God" (John 17:3)? Paul was wrong when he said for us there is one God, the Father (1 Cor 8:6)?

He heard the truth from the Father as a human being (for Jesus is come in flesh). In John 17:3, the Greek word for "and" is "kai" which can be translated "even". Thus it can be rendered,

Jhn 17:3, And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, <even> Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.

And my contention is that Jesus is the Father come in flesh; and that therefore He is God in the flesh.

 

[heartwashed]

It's a false paradigm to try and associate where Jesus said "ego eimi" with Exo 3:14. They are simply words of self identification. Jesus was identifying himself as the Messiah. What we must believe is that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God (John 20:31). If we do not believe that Jesus is the Christ, we will die in our sins.

He broke the normal grammatical usage in order to make a claim: that He is the great I AM of the burning bush passage.