Proverbs- meaning of this?

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MaryM

Well-known member
#1
Nov 25, 2022
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#1
Proverbs 20, verse 30.

Please explain. It says physical punishment cleanses away evil, such discipline purifies the heart.

I really do not find this comfortable. I bet such verses have caused untold suffering and marred many lives. It appears to be a mandate for beatings in the name of religion. This I find unpalatable and unacceptable, though I am a Christian and wishing to learn and understand scripture.

So I would appreciate some clarification.
 
JaumeJ

JaumeJ

Senior Member
#2
Jul 2, 2011
21,246
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#2
I would think it is in reference to our life experiences with others and with situations which are very difficult, even painful.
I do not believe it deals at all with punishment more that it refers to woes we endure being beliers.

Because the Word contains the Gospel, Good News, I always put aside, like did Mary, things I am not yet given to understand until I truly do. God bless you always.
 
Aaron56

Aaron56

Well-known member
#3
Jul 12, 2021
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#3
Blows that hurt cleanse away evil,
As do stripes the inner depths of the heart.

Not to worry. There is One who was bruised and punished for us.

But He was wounded for our transgressions,
He was bruised for our iniquities;
The chastisement for our peace was upon Him,
And by His stripes we are healed.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#4
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#4
MaryM said:
Proverbs 20, verse 30.

Please explain. It says physical punishment cleanses away evil, such discipline purifies the heart.

I really do not find this comfortable. I bet such verses have caused untold suffering and marred many lives. It appears to be a mandate for beatings in the name of religion. This I find unpalatable and unacceptable, though I am a Christian and wishing to learn and understand scripture.

So I would appreciate some clarification.
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No worries, dear. We have the entire Bible to look at to give us a clear picture of the nature of God and clear up misunderstandings.

Proverbs 20:30
“The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.”

Who told you that this was about beating people? (The father of lies, enemy of God, and all around nasty one himself?)

Maybe it's just telling us how the body works. Puss pushes out dirt and food poisoning makes us puke??? I don't know.
But I do know that the New Testament (our guide) says this:

Ephesians 4:32
“And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.”
 
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MaryM

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#5
Nov 25, 2022
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#5
My concern is that many an ignorant character uses this verse and others like it, to inflict beatings on children and innocents. Taking it out of context and as the excuse they want. Over the course of history we know this is true.

So what is the context? It seems to be a stand-alone statement.

I personally do not believe in physical violence of any kind, ever.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#6
#6
oyster67 said:
No worries, dear. We have the entire Bible to look at to give us a clear picture of the nature of God and clear up misunderstandings.

Proverbs 20:30
“The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.”

Who told you that this was about beating people? (The father of lies, enemy of God, and all around nasty one himself?)

Maybe it's just telling us how the body works. Puss pushes out dirt and food poisoning makes us puke??? I don't know.
But I do know that the New Testament (our guide) says this:

Ephesians 4:32
“And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.”
Click to expand...
No, its talking about physical punishment.
Also as Written in Romans that the magistrate bears the sword to execute the wrath of God on evil doers.
The plain fact of the matter is that physical punishment does indeed detour people from evil behavior.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#7
#7
MaryM said:
My concern is that many an ignorant character uses this verse and others like it, to inflict beatings on children and innocents. Taking it out of context and as the excuse they want. Over the course of history we know this is true.

So what is the context? It seems to be a stand-alone statement.

I personally do not believe in physical violence of any kind, ever.
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Thats not true. You believe in physical violence. If someone breaks into your house you will call the police who will use physical violence to remove them, and take them and incarcerate them against their will which is also violence. You are unwilling to do it yourself, but prefer other do it for you.
The fact of the matter is that evil people are violent and the only detourant is that they will be physically punished. And as written in scripture here, if a person is not detoured by the threat of punishment and they do an evil thing and are indeed physically punished, its not likely they will do it again.
 
Angela53510

Angela53510

Senior Member
#8
Jan 24, 2011
11,782
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#8
Stop applying 21st century progressivism onto the ancient Hebrews who wrote this verse, under the inspiration of God!

In fact, whatever is in the Bible will always be more correct than any imposed meaning you can come up with. Sometimes violence is called for. The cross comes to mind, which is the most violent offence ever committed. No wonder young moderns don't understand Jesus. They are mired in secular modern opinions that mean nothing.

Here is what the NET footnotes say about this verse:

"30 Beatings and wounds cleanse away[a]evil,
and floggings cleanse[b] the innermost being." [c] Prov 20:30

C. Proverbs 20:30 sn Physical punishment may prove spiritually valuable. Other proverbs say that some people will never learn from this kind of punishment, but in general this may be the only thing that works for some cases.
 
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MaryM

Well-known member
#9
Nov 25, 2022
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#9
Angela53510 said:
Stop applying 21st century progressivism onto the ancient Hebrews who wrote this verse, under the inspiration of God!

In fact, whatever is in the Bible will always be more correct than any imposed meaning you can come up with. Sometimes violence is called for. The cross comes to mind, which is the most violent offence ever committed. No wonder young moderns don't understand Jesus. They are mired in secular modern opinions that mean nothing.

Here is what the NET footnotes say about this verse:

"30 Beatings and wounds cleanse away[a]evil,
and floggings cleanse[b] the innermost being." [c] Prov 20:30

C. Proverbs 20:30 sn Physical punishment may prove spiritually valuable. Other proverbs say that some people will never learn from this kind of punishment, but in general this may be the only thing that works for some cases.
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Yes indeed. I realise it is important not to look with modern perspectives at ancient scripture. I just want to get to the root of it and apply it to my life. This is often not easy.

I do believe the Bible is inspired by God and I want to understand and obey.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
#10
Apr 21, 2021
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#10
MaryM said:
I personally do not believe in physical violence of any kind, ever.
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There's your answer. That's why you're uncomfortable with this verse. If you don't believe physical violence of any kind is ever called for then I can't give you any explanation of this verse that will satisfy you. All I can say is I do believe it's talking about literal physical disciple, not metaphorical. I agree though that people use the Bible to justify all kinds of evil.
 
M

MaryM

Well-known member
#11
Nov 25, 2022
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#11
ResidentAlien said:
There's your answer. That's why you're uncomfortable with this verse. If you don't believe physical violence of any kind is ever called for then I can't give you any explanation of this verse that will satisfy you. All I can say is I do believe it's talking about literal physical disciple, not metaphorical. I agree though that people use the Bible to justify all kinds of evil.
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It's true, I can't bear violence. I endured some in childhood and it has left me unable to cope with it.
It's naive I know, but I wish people never hurt each other.
Jesus never hurt anyone, he came to heal, to spread the message of love and forgiveness. Yet look what they did to Him.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#12
#12
MaryM said:
It's true, I can't bear violence. I endured some in childhood and it has left me unable to cope with it.
It's naive I know, but I wish people never hurt each other.
Jesus never hurt anyone, he came to heal, to spread the message of love and forgiveness. Yet look what they did to Him.
Click to expand...
No loving person desires or enjoys violence. It would be nice if there was no evil that requires a violent response.
The plain fact is that everyone has endured violence, we still have to acknowledge the reality of the neccesity of proper application of violence.
 
ResidentAlien

ResidentAlien

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#13
Apr 21, 2021
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#13
MaryM said:
It's true, I can't bear violence. I endured some in childhood and it has left me unable to cope with it.
It's naive I know, but I wish people never hurt each other.
Jesus never hurt anyone, he came to heal, to spread the message of love and forgiveness. Yet look what they did to Him.
Click to expand...
Jesus never had children either, lol.
 
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Locoponydirtman

Guest
#14
#14
Also Jesus used a whip to drive out the money changers.
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#15
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,701
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#15
MaryM said:
My concern is that many an ignorant character uses this verse and others like it, to inflict beatings on children and innocents. Taking it out of context and as the excuse they want. Over the course of history we know this is true.

So what is the context? It seems to be a stand-alone statement.

I personally do not believe in physical violence of any kind, ever.
Click to expand...
First off, ignorant and bullish abusers will always find ways to rationalize their behaviors. Only when Christ comes back to rule and reign will we be free of perverts and tyrants completely.

For now, lets pray for one another and all the children to be under God's tender care and protection.

You are correct about that verse (Proverbs 20:30). It is a stand-alone contextually and carries no ill connotation in the tried-and-true KJV.

Proverbs 20:30 with "context"...
22Say not thou, I will recompense evil; but wait on the LORD, and he shall save thee.
23Divers weights are an abomination unto the LORD; and a false balance is not good.
24Man's goings are of the LORD; how can a man then understand his own way?
25It is a snare to the man who devoureth that which is holy, and after vows to make enquiry.
26A wise king scattereth the wicked, and bringeth the wheel over them.
27The spirit of man is the candle of the LORD, searching all the inward parts of the belly.
28Mercy and truth preserve the king: and his throne is upholden by mercy.
29The glory of young men is their strength: and the beauty of old men is the gray head.
30The blueness of a wound cleanseth away evil: so do stripes the inward parts of the belly.

Men who want to misuse the Bible will always select verses like 26 and exclude everything else (like 22).

I encourage you to pick up a copy of the KJV. Many odd and twisted things have crept into those new "modern" versions. They are not easier to read. Their sole purpose is to further the agenda of their creators (which is usually to make lots of money.)
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#16
May 24, 2014
11,887
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#16
MaryM said:
I do believe the Bible is inspired by God and I want to understand and obey.
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The example of how we are to live and obey is not based on the behavior of some King in the Old Testament. Jesus came and humbled Himself to teach us the way of a meek and mild servant. We do live in a world where we are under oppressors and punishers and enforces, but we are not part of them.

1 Peter 2:23 Context
20For what glory is it, if, when ye be buffeted for your faults, ye shall take it patiently? but if, when ye do well, and suffer for it, ye take it patiently, this is acceptable with God. 21For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps: 22Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth: 23Who, when he was reviled, reviled not again; when he suffered, he threatened not; but committed himself to him that judgeth righteously:

Matthew 26:52
“Then said Jesus unto him, Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.”
 
oyster67

oyster67

Senior Member
#17
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,701
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#17
MaryM said:
It's naive I know, but I wish people never hurt each other.
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It is not naive. It is the way of Jesus - as you already know...
MaryM said:
Jesus never hurt anyone, he came to heal, to spread the message of love and forgiveness. Yet look what they did to Him.
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Hebrews 10:35
“Cast not away therefore your confidence, which hath great recompence of reward.”
 
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MaryM

Well-known member
#18
Nov 25, 2022
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#18
Locoponydirtman said:
No loving person desires or enjoys violence. It would be nice if there was no evil that requires a violent response.
The plain fact is that everyone has endured violence, we still have to acknowledge the reality of the neccesity of proper application of violence.
Click to expand...
Sad but true.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#20
#20
MaryM said:
It's true, I can't bear violence. I endured some in childhood and it has left me unable to cope with it.
It's naive I know, but I wish people never hurt each other.
Jesus never hurt anyone, he came to heal, to spread the message of love and forgiveness. Yet look what they did to Him.
Click to expand...
And yet when he returns he rules with a iron rod. The lamb becomes the lion.

Theres times when people need a punch in the snot locker, sad but true. Ive needed it once or twice myself. Its humbling, it hurts, it makes you think.
 
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