Conversion therapy

[KJVMan]

Currently there is a debate in the Norwegian government, whether it will be prohibited or still allowed to run conversion therapy in the country. The suggestion is 3-6 years of jail time for those who run such a conversion therapy, when they are trying to save gay people from going to Hell. This suggestion is of course from the Devil himself.

Is there any other countries where Pride and "Pride Month" suggests such acts against christian communities? Or even States where such jail time exists?

 

[shittim]

Thank you, I didn't know.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

KJVMAN,

Did you know that God turns them over to that reprobate mind when they follow the pattern detailed in Romans 1?

Vs 24“Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:”

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

 

[shittim]

Do we really know His intent in this situation?
blessings

 

[KJVMan]

KJVMAN,

Did you know that God turns them over to that reprobate mind when they follow the pattern detailed in Romans 1?

Vs 24“Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:”

26For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: 27And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet."

28And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

Yes, I am aware that God "gives them up", and therefore it would not be appropriate to "convert" them from their sins, if they weren't asking for it - but say one of them comes back and asks to get rid of this temptation - should it be illegal to help them? Should we send our priests to jail, for helping someone to get rid of the gayness?

@shittim - You ask what God's intentions are to "give up" gay people "unto vile affections" to do "those things which are not convenient". Because we all have a free will to do whatever we like; He will not force someone to come with him to Heaven, and he will not force anybody to love him. When a person does evil long enough - knowing it is a sin - but still doing it with his whole heart - this is a sin against the Holy Spirit, and this is the only sin that is not forgiven:

Luke 12,10: And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

How do we know that gay actions are a sin? Let us take a look at the Scripture all together:

Rom 1,24-32:
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

 

[shittim]

You have to go back to some churches to get back under the Law Jesus came to free us of.

He knows the end from the beginning and knows of the failure of the majority of us to learn His way of casting off spirits of perversion, sickness, lack, infirmity, etc.
Each person who is freed from this and other perversions was foreknown from the beginning to have fallen, repented, turned and returned to relationship and is now a brother or sister in Christ.
I just completed prayer speaking against all perversion in Jesus name, and received His clear confirmation in response. It appears He is longing for us to complete the work He modeled, please try it right now, "I speak against the spirit of perversion in Jesus name".

.
Bless you my friends

 

[JohnDB]

Currently there is a debate in the Norwegian government, whether it will be prohibited or still allowed to run conversion therapy in the country. The suggestion is 3-6 years of jail time for those who run such a conversion therapy, when they are trying to save gay people from going to Hell. This suggestion is of course from the Devil himself.

Is there any other countries where Pride and "Pride Month" suggests such acts against christian communities? Or even States where such jail time exists?

Many of these "conversion therapy" techniques are akin to brainwashing with torture.
Not something that is really all that good to begin with.

There are a FEW that use regular counseling and treatment for mental illness that make some gains which I can agree with. But these are extremely rare.

Of course I don't agree with the alphabet people lifestyles either....

But two wrongs don't make things right either.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Yes, I am aware that God "gives them up", and therefore it would not be appropriate to "convert" them from their sins, if they weren't asking for it - but say one of them comes back and asks to get rid of this temptation - should it be illegal to help them? Should we send our priests to jail, for helping someone to get rid of the gayness?

@shittim - You ask what God's intentions are to "give up" gay people "unto vile affections" to do "those things which are not convenient". Because we all have a free will to do whatever we like; He will not force someone to come with him to Heaven, and he will not force anybody to love him. When a person does evil long enough - knowing it is a sin - but still doing it with his whole heart - this is a sin against the Holy Spirit, and this is the only sin that is not forgiven:

Luke 12,10: And whosoever shall speak a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but unto him that blasphemeth against the Holy Ghost it shall not be forgiven.

How do we know that gay actions are a sin? Let us take a look at the Scripture all together:

Rom 1,24-32:
Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves: Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature: And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers, Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, Without understanding, covenantbreakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful: Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

I don't think it should be illegal at all. Governments worldwide often take over areas which they have no legitimate authority.

Catholic priests cannot convert these people though. They have been the problems and not the spiritual solutions, much like the Pharisees in Acts 13. Paul and Barnabas preached the true Gospel which excluded the requirements of circumcision and keeping the laws. Today the false priests teach baptism and other such sacraments of their religion. Even if they got one of the teens reformed of the particular sin of sodomy that might have been initiated by that priesthood to begin with, that teen would need to believe on Jesus Christ in rejection of that works based model of salvation.

This is the Biblical conversion that I am familiar with.

"And certain men which came down from Judaea taught the brethren, and said, Except ye be circumcised after the manner of Moses, ye cannot be saved. 2When therefore Paul and Barnabas had no small dissension and disputation with them, they determined that Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem unto the apostles and elders about this question. 3And being brought on their way by the church, they passed through Phenice and Samaria, declaring the conversion of the Gentiles: and they caused great joy unto all the brethren.

16:30...
"Sirs, what must I do to be saved?
And they said, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and thou shalt be saved."

 

[JohnDB]

So @shittim believes that those needing "conversion therapy" or waterboarding, sleep deprivation while being blasted with porn, electric shocks and drugs is good?

Because that's what I was referring to....it's been done often for "conversion therapy".

 

[shittim]

I don't find you believable in this.

 

[shittim]

It would have been best to word that -
"I don't find that statement to be true".
best wishes

 

[JohnDB]

It would have been best to word that -
"I don't find that statement to be true".
best wishes

Well why else would most civilized nations condemn the practice then? It was condemned before they even legalized homosexuality and those doing such things regularly jailed and losing their license to practice medicine. It was called "conversion therapy " then....

They were doing similar things to "deprogram" those caught up in cults as well back in the 70's. It wasn't good then. Less excusable now.

The roads to Hell are paved with good intentions....but the ends have never justified the means.

Jordan Peterson has talked about these barbaric methods of conversion therapy before and denounced them.

What exactly did you think I was talking about?

What do you see as "conversion therapy " that got people criminally charged?

 

[KJVMan]

So @shittim believes that those needing "conversion therapy" or waterboarding, sleep deprivation while being blasted with porn, electric shocks and drugs is good?

Because that's what I was referring to....it's been done often for "conversion therapy".

I think talking and reading in the Bible would be good enough for a proper conversion therapy today, and all methods would of course have to be cleared with the patient first. If would be impossible to convert someone who doesn't want to get converted (in my opinion). If someone uses the methods you describe, I would have a better understanding of why the government would want to cancel such a treatment.

I just think a cancellation of the possibility to legally cure someone from sin, would be a violation of the human rights, who says everyone have the right to believe in whatever they want. If you believe that gayness is a sin, you should have the opportunity to cure a brother who wants to be cured.

 

[JohnDB]

I think talking and reading in the Bible would be good enough for a proper conversion therapy today, and all methods would of course have to be cleared with the patient first. If would be impossible to convert someone who doesn't want to get converted (in my opinion). If someone uses the methods you describe, I would have a better understanding of why the government would want to cancel such a treatment.

I just think a cancellation of the possibility to legally cure someone from sin, would be a violation of the human rights, who says everyone have the right to believe in whatever they want. If you believe that gayness is a sin, you should have the opportunity to cure a brother who wants to be cured.

First off the DSMV has to be updated to include homosexuality as a mental disease.

Then these people need to lose the effect of either the trauma or the narcissism or both that their perversion stems from. Which are some of the most difficult things for therapists to work to "fix".

Then once they are somewhat balanced they can hear the gospel message.

None of this stuff is easy...but feeding perversions and delusions is definitely not going to work either.

 

[shittim]

What Jesus modeled for us to do worked 100%