No more of works?

[John146]

What are some thoughts on the following passage? "Then is it no more of works." When did grace start? When was it by works?

Romans 11
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

 

[Cameron143]

What are some thoughts on the following passage? "Then is it no more of works." When did grace start? When was it by works?

Romans 11
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

Grace has always been present. Grace for salvation began with Adam and Eve.
The initial covenant for salvation was one of works. There was a singular prohibition and had that commandment been kept, it would have led to eternal life at some point. It wasn't, thus, grace became necessary.
The particular verses you ask about reflected the estate of Israel in the time of the Apostle. Some were saved by grace, but most had not. Hence, Israel failed to obtain what it desired: life through the law.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What are some thoughts on the following passage? "Then is it no more of works." When did grace start? When was it by works?

Salvation was ALWAYS by grace through faith since the time of Abel. The attempt to use the works of the Law to be justified in the sight of God probably began when the Pharisees became a Jewish sect and promoted "the traditions of men". So Paul was addressing this issue to ensure that Christians were not deceived.

 

[VARob]

Salvation was ALWAYS by grace through faith since the time of Abel. The attempt to use the works of the Law to be justified in the sight of God probably began when the Pharisees became a Jewish sect and promoted "the traditions of men". So Paul was addressing this issue to ensure that Christians were not deceived.

Salvation has always been by faith, but in the OT they had to demonstrate their faith by doing their best to keep the law.

Deut 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

The Pharisees came up with extra laws..

 

[Cameron143]

Salvation has always been by faith, but in the OT they had to demonstrate their faith by doing their best to keep the law.

Deut 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

The Pharisees came up with extra laws..

Who observed all the commandments?

 

[Magenta]

Yom Kippur (the Day of Atonement, or “Sabbath of Sabbaths”) comes to mind. Known as the
holiest day of the Jewish year, it was when the Jews sought to effect individual and collective
purification by the practice of forgiveness of the sins of others and by sincere repentance for
one’s own sins against God to achieve reconciliation with God. The high priest would perform
an elaborate sacrificial ceremony in the Temple, successively confessing his own sins, the sins
of priests, and the sins of all Israel. Clothed in white linen, he then entered the Holy of Holies —
allowed only at Yom Kippur — to sprinkle the blood of the sacrifice and to offer incense. The
ceremony concluded when a goat (the scapegoat), symbolically carrying the sins of Israel, was
driven to its death in the wilderness. However, as we know, it is impossible for the blood of bulls
and goats to remove sins. Jesus is now the Lamb of God Who took away the sins of the world, and
has become our High priest. The veil has been torn, and we can freely enter the presence of God. We
are saved by grace through faith in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ. I got some of my info here.

 

[Magenta]

Oh, yes, also wanted to say that on His way to Jerusalem during what is often referred to
as holy week (leading up to Jesus' crucifixion), when Jesus cursed the fig tree? It was an
indication of how unfruitful the temple sacrificial system was, and in cursing the fig tree
for its lack of fruit, Jesus was indicating that that whole system was coming to an end.

 

[Mem]

What are some thoughts on the following passage? "Then is it no more of works." When did grace start? When was it by works?

Romans 11
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.

We are directed to note what God said in v.4, “I have reserved for Myself seven thousand men who have not bowed the knee to Baal.”
These are an example of the elect then, which are "those who have not bowed the knee to Baal," and not as much that they followed every command. And v. 5 says that it is likewise even now.

 

[Magenta]

The fig tree is a symbol/the emblem of the Judean nation, which seemed to be thriving -- with an
abundance of leaves -- but spiritually it was producing no fruit. Jesus often rebuked the scribes
and Pharisees for this lack of spiritual fruit, and in the same chapter of Matthew He concludes
(in the parable of the vineyard) by saying, "Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall
be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof" (verse 43). Verse 45
continues, "And when the chief priests and Pharisees had heard His parables, they perceived that
He spake of them." The cursing of the fig tree represented a curse on the nation of Judea.

In verse 20, when Jesus' disciples saw the fig tree wither away, they "marveled, saying, How soon is the
fig tree withered away!" This was a prophecy of the coming destruction of the Judean nation by the
Roman army under Titus in AD 70, only thirty-seven years later (which also brought an end to temple worship).

The destruction was also prophesied in another parable in Luke 13:6-9: "A certain man had a fig tree planted
in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none. Then said he unto the dresser of his
vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why
cumbereth it the ground? And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig
about it, and dung it: And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down."

The three years of seeking fruit in the parable refer to the three years of Jesus' ministry. For these three years
Jesus sought but found no fruit among the Judeans, and so God was minded to cut the tree down. But the
dresser of the vineyard said to give it one more year, and he would fertilize it (by the preaching of his disciples)
to see if any fruit would be produced. But in the fourth year (Hebrew inclusive counting) it was evident there was
still no fruit, since they rejected and crucified Him, and so there was nothing left for the tree but to be cut down.

The fall of the Judean nation was also prophesied earlier by John the Baptist when he said, "And now also
the axe is laid unto the root of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn
down, and cast into the fire" (Matthew 3:10). source

 

[Nehemiah6]

Salvation has always been by faith, but in the OT they had to demonstrate their faith by doing their best to keep the law.

There was no Law from about 4000 BC to about 1500 BC. And the Law does not say anything about proving your faith by the works of the Law.

 

[John146]

Salvation has always been by faith, but in the OT they had to demonstrate their faith by doing their best to keep the law.

Deut 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

The Pharisees came up with extra laws..

Thats faith and works, yes?

 

[John146]

There was no Law from about 4000 BC to about 1500 BC. And the Law does not say anything about proving your faith by the works of the Law.

Faith come by hearing the word of God. Man responds to whatever truth
God dispensed at any given point in history.

 

[John146]

Who observed all the commandments?

Remember, God added the sacrificial system as part of the law. If one transgressed the law, they had a means to have their transgression forgiven.

 

[John146]

Salvation was ALWAYS by grace through faith since the time of Abel. The attempt to use the works of the Law to be justified in the sight of God probably began when the Pharisees became a Jewish sect and promoted "the traditions of men". So Paul was addressing this issue to ensure that Christians were not deceived.

Sounds like works…

Ezekiel 18:
5 But if a man be just, and do that which is lawful and right,
6 And hath not eaten upon the mountains, neither hath lifted up his eyes to the idols of the house of Israel, neither hath defiled his neighbour's wife, neither hath come near to a menstruous woman,
7 And hath not oppressed any, but hath restored to the debtor his pledge, hath spoiled none by violence, hath given his bread to the hungry, and hath covered the naked with a garment;
8 He that hath not given forth upon usury, neither hath taken any increase, that hath withdrawn his hand from iniquity, hath executed true judgment between man and man,
9 Hath walked in my statutes, and hath kept my judgments, to deal truly; he is just, he shall surely live, saith the Lord God.

24 But when the righteous turneth away from his righteousness, and committeth iniquity, and doeth according to all the abominations that the wicked man doeth, shall he live? All his righteousness that he hath done shall not be mentioned: in his trespass that he hath trespassed, and in his sin that he hath sinned, in them shall he die.

 

[John146]

Salvation was ALWAYS by grace through faith since the time of Abel. The attempt to use the works of the Law to be justified in the sight of God probably began when the Pharisees became a Jewish sect and promoted "the traditions of men". So Paul was addressing this issue to ensure that Christians were not deceived.

Paul was stating a fact. It is no mor of works.

 

[VARob]

There was no Law from about 4000 BC to about 1500 BC.

That’s right.

And the Law does not say anything about proving your faith by the works of the Law.

Perhaps you didn’t read the verse..

Deut 6:25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before the LORD our God, as he hath commanded us.

 

[Cameron143]

Remember, God added the sacrificial system as part of the law. If one transgressed the law, they had a means to have their transgression forgiven.

That was the point. There is a righteousness that comes from keeping the whole law. But since no one can, our failure to do so causes us to look for another way. In this, the law acts as a schoolmaster and points us to Christ. The same was true for OT saints.

 

[John146]

That was the point. There is a righteousness that comes from keeping the whole law. But since no one can, our failure to do so causes us to look for another way. In this, the law acts as a schoolmaster and points us to Christ. The same was true for OT saints.

Those OT saints could obtain righteousness by following the law, but it was self-righteousness not God's righteousness through Jesus Christ. God's righteousness through Christ was not even available to them. Here is an example of OT righteousness:

Luke 1
5 There was in the days of Herod, the king of Judaea, a certain priest named Zacharias, of the course of Abia: and his wife was of the daughters of Aaron, and her name was Elisabeth.
6 And they were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless.

Both Zacharias and his wife Elisabeth were righteous before God by being blameless as they following the commandments and ordinances of the Lord. Paul was also blameless as touching the righteousness under the law.

 

[Karlon]

What are some thoughts on the following passage? "Then is it no more of works." When did grace start? When was it by works?

Romans 11
5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.[/QUOTi thi

i think especially after Jesus died on the cross, salvation by grace really took effect as Ephesians 2:8,9, & 10 teach- "for ye ARE SAVED BY GRACE THRU FAITH and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, AND NOT OF WORKS lest any man boast......"

 

[John146]

i think especially after Jesus died on the cross, salvation by grace really took effect as Ephesians 2:8,9, & 10 teach- "for ye ARE SAVED BY GRACE THRU FAITH and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, AND NOT OF WORKS lest any man boast......"

What I am advocating is that we've got something better than those OT saints. We have the shed blood of Jesus Christ. I believe that salvation was not even possible for them, therefore, when they died, they slept in Abraham's bosom.