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In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. (John 1:1-3)
The Word was the one that was doing the talking, which is Jesus. He is the Son of God correct? In the beginning the Word was known as Yahweh or Jehovah. When the Word came in the flesh He took upon Himself His Fathers name which is Jesus. There was no Father and Son in the beginning it was only God.
The word God was translated from the Hebrew word Elohim. Elohim is a uni-plural word in Hebrew, meaning one office but more than one participant. Take another look at the three verses above. How many members do you see? Note this part of the verse, "In the beginning was the Word." That's one member. Notice the next part, "and the Word was with God." Being that the "Word" is Jesus and in this case "God" meaning the Father, how many do you see? (Two) Where is the Holy Ghost? Shouldn't he be in the beginning also?
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And how did you come to that conclusion? I ask because it says at John 1:1, "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was "WITH" God, and the Word was God." So here's my point? If your "WITH" someone, you can't be that someone. John 1:2 amplifies vs1. "He or That one was in the beginning "WITH" God. I'm almost done Zandar but I have one more point to make.
It says at Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb. I, the Lord am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE." Now Zandar, please pay attention. Here is what John 1:3 states, "ALL things came into being by Him, and apart (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being."
Since God created all things By Himself and All alone why is Jesus Christ identified as the agent of creation here at John 1:1-3? Would you agree that there is but one God period, yet He chose to manifest Himself in the Bible as three distinct persons? And yes, I can Biblically demonstrate that the Holy Spirit is a distinct person.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
It says at Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb. I, the Lord am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, And spreading out the earth ALL ALONE." Now Zandar, please pay attention. Here is what John 1:3 states, "ALL things came into being by Him, and apart (or without Him) nothing came into being that has come into being."
Since God created all things By Himself and All alone why is Jesus Christ identified as the agent of creation here at John 1:1-3? Would you agree that there is but one God period, yet He chose to manifest Himself in the Bible as three distinct persons? And yes, I can Biblically demonstrate that the Holy Spirit is a distinct person.
IN GOD THE SON,
bluto
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.
The Word's flesh per John 1:14 didn't start out divine. He started out as a
Jewish infant whose origin can be easily traced to David, Abraham, and
ultimately to Adam; so in point of fact: the Word's flesh was as human as
any man can possibly be.
Now if his ancestors Adam, Abraham, and David were all created men, then
the Word's flesh was/is a created man too because created life is the only
kind of human life that those men were able to reproduce.
So then, the question is: How did the Word's flesh go from dust to divine?
It's sort of ironic that the average rank and file pew warmer will readily
attest that the Word's flesh is fully Man and fully God when in reality they
only believe he's fully God because in order to be fully Man, he'd have to be
related to not only Adam but also Noah (Gen 9:19 & Acts 17:26) which is
unthinkable because it raises questions about Jesus relative to original sin
and the so-called fallen nature.
_
The Word's flesh per John 1:14 didn't start out divine. He started out as a
Jewish infant whose origin can be easily traced to David, Abraham, and
ultimately to Adam; so in point of fact: the Word's flesh was as human as
any man can possibly be.
Now if his ancestors Adam, Abraham, and David were all created men, then
the Word's flesh was/is a created man too because created life is the only
kind of human life that those men were able to reproduce.
So then, the question is: How did the Word's flesh go from dust to divine?
It's sort of ironic that the average rank and file pew warmer will readily
attest that the Word's flesh is fully Man and fully God when in reality they
only believe he's fully God because in order to be fully Man, he'd have to be
related to not only Adam but also Noah (Gen 9:19 & Acts 17:26) which is
unthinkable because it raises questions about Jesus relative to original sin
and the so-called fallen nature.
_
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Trinity
God “YHWH” is an omni-present invisible spirit who has chosen to reveal Himself in three forms, i.e. -
The Father. The senior authority figure, lawgiver, justice enforcer, receiver of worship, and giver of parental love, mercy, and compassion.
The Son. The GoD-man Jesus Christ, The very expression of GOD's love, the saviour of all who believe, GoD's gift to mankind, The redeemer, sin bearer, priest, and mediator between GoD and man.
The Holy Spirit. He indwells and empowers Christians, the Comforter, Counsellor, Guide, Helper and Advocate of Christians. Sealer and Sanctifier of believers. Having the purpose of glorifying Christ, and to give assurance of salvation to believers.
John1:18- “No man has seen God. - Jesus Christ He has revealed Him".
1 Tim. 3: 16, reads, “And without controversy great is the mystery of Godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory”.
Isa. 9: 6, which attributes to Jesus names that can only be given to GOD. It reads; “For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the Government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called, Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace”. - - In John 10: 30 & 36-38. Christ said. “I and My Father are one."
Heb. 1: 2, 3. (GOD),“Has in these last days spoken to us by His Son whom He has appointed Heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.” (That is =Jesus Spirit is God).
Heb. 1: 6, says, “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” (Christ); but remember, God has said that we should worship none but Him.
Heb. 1: 8, states, ‘But to the Son He says; “Your throne O God is for ever and ever.” Gen. 1: 1. Ps. 33: 6, & 96: 5, & Isa. 42: 5, clearly teach that YHWH GOD is the Creator. Yet, John 1: 1-3, & Heb.1: 8-10, also teaches that Jesus is the Creator.
God forbids the worship of any but Himself, yet we find that Jesus was worshipped, and accepted that worship. He was worshipped by;-
The wise men, as a child.Mat.2: 1,2,11. A leper. Mat.8: 2. A ruler. Mat. 9: 18. Disciples, Mat. 14: 33. & Luke 24: 52 The woman of Canaan. Mat. 15: 21-28. A man who had been blind. John. 9: Thomas.John. 20: 28, 29. Stephen. Acts. 7: 59,60. It is commanded in Heb. 1: 6. "Let all the angels of God worship Him" (Christ), and this they do in Rev. 5: 11-14. -- If Jesus was not God it would be blasphemy for Him to accept worship.
One God, but three revelations of the one God. That is not hard to understand. A very simplified explanation would be as follows.
I am revealed (Manifested) to my son as a father, to my grandson as grandfather and to my great grandson as great grandfather. If all are present at the one time I am manifest in three different ways at the one time.
I could go on and give a dozen or more pages on the subject , but that is not suitable here.
God “YHWH” is an omni-present invisible spirit who has chosen to reveal Himself in three forms, i.e. -
The Father. The senior authority figure, lawgiver, justice enforcer, receiver of worship, and giver of parental love, mercy, and compassion.
The Son. The GoD-man Jesus Christ, The very expression of GOD's love, the saviour of all who believe, GoD's gift to mankind, The redeemer, sin bearer, priest, and mediator between GoD and man.
The Holy Spirit. He indwells and empowers Christians, the Comforter, Counsellor, Guide, Helper and Advocate of Christians. Sealer and Sanctifier of believers. Having the purpose of glorifying Christ, and to give assurance of salvation to believers.
John1:18- “No man has seen God. - Jesus Christ He has revealed Him".
1 Tim. 3: 16, reads, “And without controversy great is the mystery of Godliness: God was manifested in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen by angels, Preached among the Gentiles, Believed on in the world, Received up in glory”.
Isa. 9: 6, which attributes to Jesus names that can only be given to GOD. It reads; “For unto us a Child is born, Unto us a Son is given; And the Government shall be upon His shoulder. And His name will be called, Wonderful, Counsellor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace”. - - In John 10: 30 & 36-38. Christ said. “I and My Father are one."
Heb. 1: 2, 3. (GOD),“Has in these last days spoken to us by His Son whom He has appointed Heir of all things, through whom also He made the worlds; who being the brightness of His glory and the express image of His person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on high.” (That is =Jesus Spirit is God).
Heb. 1: 6, says, “Let all the angels of God worship Him.” (Christ); but remember, God has said that we should worship none but Him.
Heb. 1: 8, states, ‘But to the Son He says; “Your throne O God is for ever and ever.” Gen. 1: 1. Ps. 33: 6, & 96: 5, & Isa. 42: 5, clearly teach that YHWH GOD is the Creator. Yet, John 1: 1-3, & Heb.1: 8-10, also teaches that Jesus is the Creator.
God forbids the worship of any but Himself, yet we find that Jesus was worshipped, and accepted that worship. He was worshipped by;-
The wise men, as a child.Mat.2: 1,2,11. A leper. Mat.8: 2. A ruler. Mat. 9: 18. Disciples, Mat. 14: 33. & Luke 24: 52 The woman of Canaan. Mat. 15: 21-28. A man who had been blind. John. 9: Thomas.John. 20: 28, 29. Stephen. Acts. 7: 59,60. It is commanded in Heb. 1: 6. "Let all the angels of God worship Him" (Christ), and this they do in Rev. 5: 11-14. -- If Jesus was not God it would be blasphemy for Him to accept worship.
One God, but three revelations of the one God. That is not hard to understand. A very simplified explanation would be as follows.
I am revealed (Manifested) to my son as a father, to my grandson as grandfather and to my great grandson as great grandfather. If all are present at the one time I am manifest in three different ways at the one time.
I could go on and give a dozen or more pages on the subject , but that is not suitable here.
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op: explain The Trinity?:
1Jn 5:7 For There Are Three That Bear Record in heaven, the Father,
The WORD, and the Holy Ghost: and These Three are One.
The One Triune GodHead
"Complete" Case For JESUS Is God!
Amen.
1Jn 5:7 For There Are Three That Bear Record in heaven, the Father,
The WORD, and the Holy Ghost: and These Three are One.
The One Triune GodHead
"Complete" Case For JESUS Is God!
Amen.
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op: explain The Trinity?:
1Jn 5:7 For There Are Three That Bear Record in heaven, the Father,
The WORD, and the Holy Ghost: and These Three are One.
The One Triune GodHead
1Jn 5:7 For There Are Three That Bear Record in heaven, the Father,
The WORD, and the Holy Ghost: and These Three are One.
The One Triune GodHead
As far as that graphic goes, it is not logical, it makes no sense. It's interesting that people use a diagram that makes no sense to explain a doctrine that they claim cannot be understood.
John 17:3 And this is life eternal, that they might know thee [Father] the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Scholars are not always right. Don't believe those guys. Even the Latin Vulgate (4th century) has this verse, and there are many manuscripts and witnesses to its authenticity. Quoniam tres sunt, qui testimonium dant in caelo : Pater, Verbum, et Spiritus Sanctus : et hi tres unum sunt [1 John 5:7]
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"For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways," declares the LORD. "As the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways and my thoughts than your thoughts.
Here is just one verse that says man can't get it. all about GOD and His Divine Nature.
Here is just one verse that says man can't get it. all about GOD and His Divine Nature.
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lol, true. and there's a lot of thinking going on in this thread.
the Bible says a lot of stuff that I don't understand. God said Himself, tell them I AM THAT I AM sent you. If we are made in the image of God and we are one person what does that mean? I have been given a spirit, I am a soul, and a body was formed for me.
the Bible says a lot of stuff that I don't understand. God said Himself, tell them I AM THAT I AM sent you. If we are made in the image of God and we are one person what does that mean? I have been given a spirit, I am a soul, and a body was formed for me.
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Read all for yourselves ----just posted some of it ---
https://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also the other instances when Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—The Father initiates all of these things.
Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on God’s greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).
There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply something our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus’ human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.
The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus’ works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
https://www.gotquestions.org/Trinity-Bible.html
The members of the Trinity are distinguished one from another in various passages. In the Old Testament, “LORD” is distinguished from “Lord” (Genesis 19:24; Hosea 1:4). The LORD has a Son (Psalm 2:7, 12; Proverbs 30:2-4). The Spirit is distinguished from the “LORD” (Numbers 27:18) and from “God” (Psalm 51:10-12). God the Son is distinguished from God the Father (Psalm 45:6-7; Hebrews 1:8-9). In the New Testament, Jesus speaks to the Father about sending a Helper, the Holy Spirit (John 14:16-17). This shows that Jesus did not consider Himself to be the Father or the Holy Spirit. Consider also the other instances when Jesus speaks to the Father. Was He speaking to Himself? No. He spoke to another Person in the Trinity—The Father initiates all of these things.
Rather than attempting to fully define the Trinity with our finite human minds, we would be better served by focusing on God’s greatness and His infinitely higher nature. “Oh, the depth of the riches of the wisdom and knowledge of God! How unsearchable his judgments, and his paths beyond tracing out! Who has known the mind of the Lord? Or who has been his counselor?” (Romans 11:33-34).
There is subordination within the Trinity. Scripture shows that the Holy Spirit is subordinate to the Father and the Son, and the Son is subordinate to the Father. This is an internal relationship and does not deny the deity of any Person of the Trinity. This is simply something our finite minds cannot understand concerning the infinite God. Concerning the Son see Luke 22:42, John 5:36, John 20:21, and 1 John 4:14. Concerning the Holy Spirit see John 14:16, 14:26, 15:26, 16:7, and especially John 16:13-14.
The individual members of the Trinity have different tasks. The Father is the ultimate source or cause of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; Revelation 4:11); divine revelation (Revelation 1:1); salvation (John 3:16-17); and Jesus’ human works (John 5:17; 14:10). The Father initiates all of these things.
The Son is the agent through whom the Father does the following works: the creation and maintenance of the universe (1 Corinthians 8:6; John 1:3; Colossians 1:16-17); divine revelation (John 1:1, 16:12-15; Matthew 11:27; Revelation 1:1); and salvation (2 Corinthians 5:19; Matthew 1:21; John 4:42). The Father does all these things through the Son, who functions as His agent.
The Holy Spirit is the means by whom the Father does the following works: creation and maintenance of the universe (Genesis 1:2; Job 26:13; Psalm 104:30); divine revelation (John 16:12-15; Ephesians 3:5; 2 Peter 1:21); salvation (John 3:6; Titus 3:5; 1 Peter 1:2); and Jesus’ works (Isaiah 61:1; Acts 10:38). Thus, the Father does all these things by the power of the Holy Spirit.
There have been many attempts to develop illustrations of the Trinity. However, none of the popular illustrations are completely accurate. The egg (or apple) fails in that the shell, white, and yolk are parts of the egg, not the egg in themselves, just as the skin, flesh, and seeds of the apple are parts of it, not the apple itself. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not parts of God; each of them is God. The water illustration is somewhat better, but it still fails to adequately describe the Trinity. Liquid, vapor, and ice are forms of water. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are not forms of God, each of them is God. So, while these illustrations may give us a picture of the Trinity, the picture is not entirely accurate. An infinite God cannot be fully described by a finite illustration.
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which is in parenthesis and in different colored ink, explaining it was ADDED to the Vulgate long after Jerome's death!
7 quia tres sunt qui testimonium dant
And there are Three who give testimony (in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.)^
8 Spiritus et aqua et sanguis et tres unum sunt
(And there are three that give testimony on earth:) the spirit and the water and the blood. And these three are one.
it should read:
7 quia tres sunt qui testimonium dant
And there are Three who give testimony.^
8 Spiritus et aqua et sanguis et tres unum sunt
the spirit and the water and the blood. And these three are one.
7 quia tres sunt qui testimonium dant
And there are Three who give testimony (in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost. And these three are one.)^
8 Spiritus et aqua et sanguis et tres unum sunt
(And there are three that give testimony on earth:) the spirit and the water and the blood. And these three are one.
it should read:
7 quia tres sunt qui testimonium dant
And there are Three who give testimony.^
8 Spiritus et aqua et sanguis et tres unum sunt
the spirit and the water and the blood. And these three are one.