Notice Paul’s Attitude! He Did Not Believe Or Claim To Already Have Salvation, But Sought To Progressively GROW Up Into The Likeness Of Christ,

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

Faith without works is dead.

I just think this means our salvation is evident by the works produced through saving faith. In other words, saving faith produces works, not the other way around.

❧

 

[VARob]

Remember the story of Abraham, the LORD will provide through obedience with his son Isaac offered him up for a sacrifice?

Genesis 22:1-19

Read about Christianity and the new birth (which first became available on the day of Pentecost) in the Pauline Epistles.

 

[posthuman]

It's not confusing friend that you can only know that your saved, by what you've been told.

You can only BE saved by believing what you have heard.

Faithful is He that calleth you, ​

Who also will do it.​

(1 Thessalonians 5:24)​

 

[Cameron143]

Remember the story of Abraham, the LORD will provide through obedience with his son Isaac offered him up for a sacrifice?

Genesis 22:1-19

Abraham failed often. It didn't cause a loss of relationship with God.
God is faithful even when we aren't.
The reason that Paul was able to push forward with such zeal was because of the surety he had in being in Christ.

 

[Radius]

oh great! Another works based salvation thread to confuse those who rest on Christ's accomplished work on the cross. be gone satan.

 

[posthuman]

I would call that Hogwash. Just go to Romans chapter 8 and see how foolish this allegation is.

yes

Romans 8:23-25
we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of our body. For we were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does one still hope for what he sees? But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly wait for [it] with perseverance.


from the passage above it is clear he speaks of salvation as a present possession, having been fully achieved and received.
And he speaks of the resurrection, saying, the redemption of his body, as a future hope. he also in saying so destroys 'sinless perfectionism' by calling it a hope, defining hope as that which is not presently seen - and in doing so says he eagerly waits for it with persevering faith, knowing that it will NOT fail to be realized.

 

[Walter]

Read about Christianity and the new birth (which first became available on the day of Pentecost) in the Pauline Epistles.

"Enter ye in at the strait gate" is a phrase from the Bible, specifically Matthew 7:14 in the King James Version1. The phrase is part of a comparison made by Christ between the way to life and an entrance through a gate. The word "strait" in this context means "pent up, narrow, difficult to be entered"2. The phrase is often interpreted to mean that the way to eternal life is difficult and few people will find it1.

 

[VARob]

"Enter ye in at the strait gate" is a phrase from the Bible, specifically Matthew 7:14 in the King James Version1. The phrase is part of a comparison made by Christ between the way to life and an entrance through a gate. The word "strait" in this context means "pent up, narrow, difficult to be entered"2. The phrase is often interpreted to mean that the way to eternal life is difficult and few people will find it1.

Again, read about Christianity and the new birth (which first became available on the day of Pentecost) in the Pauline Epistles.

 

[Nehemiah6]

oh great! Another works based salvation thread to confuse those who rest on Christ's accomplished work on the cross. be gone satan.

Looks like Walter has seriously gone off the rails in the last little while. But people choose to either stick with Gospel truth or go into error. The Bible is there for all to read, study, and interpret soundly.

 

[Walter]

Again, read about Christianity and the new birth (which first became available on the day of Pentecost) in the Pauline Epistles.

What are you talking about? Do you have any links or evidence?

 

[Walter]

Looks like Walter has seriously gone off the rails in the last little while. But people choose to either stick with Gospel truth or go into error. The Bible is there for all to read, study, and interpret soundly.

Because it does not fit your understanding, but it does not be that way with others, you have said this about me before.

 

[PennEd]

Sunday 7-2-23 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 13 5783, 12th. Summer Day

To the Laodicean church, Christ declared – “To the one who conquers I will give a place with me on my throne, just as I myself conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne” (Rev.3:21). To everyone who CONQUERS God will give final SALVATION, glory, and majesty, in the Kingdom of God! Do you get it? Do you understand? Paul the apostle understood that we must endure to the end – that we must be FAITHFUL till our dying day, or till Christ returns (whichever comes first!). Paul wrote, of his own spiritual battle: “Do you not know that in a race the runners all compete, but only one receives the prize? RUN in such a way that you may WIN it. Athletes exercise self-control in all things; they do it to receive a perishable wreathe, but we an imperishable one. So I do not run aimlessly, nor do I box as though beating the air; but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified” (I Cor.9:24-27, NRSV). Notice this in the Amplified Parallel Bible: “Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but [only] one receives the prize? So RUN [your race] so that you may lay hold [of the prize] and make it yours. . . Therefore I do not run uncertainly (without definite aim). I do not box like one beating the air and striking without an adversary.

But [like a boxer] I buffet my body [handle it roughly, discipline it by hardships] and subdue it, for fear that after proclaiming to others the Gospel and things pertaining to it, I MYSELF SHOULD BECOME UNFIT [not stand the test, be unapproved and rejected as a counterfeit].” “Eternal security” once you profess Christ? HOGWASH! Professing Christ is merely the BEGINNING of the Christian faith and walk! Once beginning, you must ENDURE TO THE END, OVERCOMING, CONQUERING, AND BRINGING YOUR SELF INTO SUBJECTION TO CHRIST! Paul also wrote about this battle in the second letter to the Corinthians. He declared, “For though we walk (live) in the flesh, we are not carrying on our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons. For the weapons of our WARFARE are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds, [inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the OBEDIENCE of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One), being in readiness to punish every [insubordinate for his] disobedience, when your own submission and OBEDIENCE [as a church] are fully secure and complete” (II Cor.10:3-6). Notice! We are not yet “fully secure and complete.” Rather, as Paul himself wrote to the Philippians, again quoting the Amplified Parallel Bible, “[For my determined purpose is] that I may know Him [that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and clearly], and that I may in that same say come to 6 know the power outflowing from His resurrection [which it exerts over believers], and that I may so share His sufferings as to be continually TRANSFORMED [in spirit into His likeness even] to His death, [in the hope] that IF POSSIBLE I may attain to the [personal and moral] RESURRECTION . . . Not that I have now attained [this ideal], or have already been made perfect, but I PRESS ON TO LAY HOLD OF (GRASP) and make my own, that for which Christ Jesus (the Messiah) has laid hold of me and made me His own.” (Phil.3:10-12).

Notice Paul’s attitude! He did not believe or claim to already have salvation, but sought to progressively GROW up into the likeness of Christ, so that “IF POSSIBLE” he may attain to the resurrection of the righteous dead, or salvation! “If possible”! It is not already “done.” It was NOT “settled at the cross.” It merely BEGAN at the cross, where Christ was crucified! Paul goes on, vehemently, saying, “I do not consider, brethren, that I have captured and made it my own [yet]; but one thing I do [it is my one aspiration]: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I PRESS ON TOWARD THE GOAL TO WIN the [supreme and heavenly] prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward.” So, Paul declares, “So let those [of us] who are spiritually mature and full-grown have this mind and these convictions; and if in any respect you have a different attitude of mind, God will make that clear to you also” (verses 13-15). Is it all finished when you simply “accept Christ” as your Saviour? Absolutely NOT! The apostle Paul makes it perfectly plain. Once we begin the Christian life, there is a lot of overcoming to do – straining forward to make sure that we will enter the Kingdom of God and attain to salvation! We must “PRESS ON,” we must “STRAIN FORWARD,” and make sure that we win the ultimate prize! As the apostle Peter himself also declared that we must escape the moral decay and rottenness of human nature and become partakers of “the divine nature” (II Pet.1:4). He went on, “For this very reason, adding your diligence [to the divine promises], employ every effort in exercising your faith to develop virtue (excellence, resolution, Christian energy), and in [exercising] virtue [develop] knowledge (intelligence), and in [exercising] knowledge [develop] self-control, and in [exercising] self-control [develop] steadfastness (patience, endurance), and in [exercising] steadfastness [develop] godliness (piety), and in [exercising] piety [develop] brotherly affection, and in [exercising] brotherly affection [develop] Christian love.

For as these qualities are yours and increasingly abound in you, hey will keep [you] from being idle or unfruitful unto the [full personal] knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One)” (verses 5-8). “Overcoming” human nature, the pulls of the flesh, the temptations of the world, and our natural proclivity to ‘sin’ – to break God’s commandments, involves a “whole lifetime” of work, diligent effort, growth, and steadfast endurance, to the very end – till either death comes, or the Messiah Himself returns! Peter summarizes the situation, saying, “For whoever lacks these qualities is blind, [spiritually] short-sighted, seeing only what is near to him, and has become oblivious [to the fact] that he was cleansed from his old sins. Because of this, brethren, be all the more solicitous and 7 eager to MAKE SURE (to ratify, to strengthen, to make steadfast) YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION, for IF YOU DO THIS, you will never stumble or fall. Thus there will be richly and abundantly provided for you entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” (verses 9-11). Eternal security ONLY comes at the END of a life spent in overcoming, enduring, and serving God, to the very end! Therefore, as the apostle Paul also reminds us, we must constantly, diligently “work out” our own salvation. He declared to the church in Philippi, “Therefore, my dear ones, as you have always obeyed [my suggestions], so now, not only [with enthusiasm you would show] in my presence but much more because I am absent, WORK OUT (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) YOUR OWN SALVATION with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ)” (Phil.2:12).

We must “work out” our own salvation! How? With godly reverence, fear, awe, and trembling, knowing that if we don’t pay heed and do it, we could and would lose out on salvation, and all the glory that God promises to the believers who endure and overcome to the very end of their lives! That’s it! That’s what GOD says! Jesus Christ also declared, firmly and finally, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back [to the things behind] is fit for the kingdom of God” (Luke 9:62). He also said, with finality: “Keep your loins girded and your lamps burning; and be like men who are waiting for their master to return home from the marriage feast, so that when he returns from the wedding and comes and knocks, they may open to him immediately” (Luke 12:35-36). He said with crystal clarity, “STRIVE to enter by the narrow door [force yourselves through it], for many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able” (Luke 13:24). The Greek word for “strive” here is agonizomai , from agon, meaning “contest, conflict, contention, fight, race.” It means “to contend, to endeavor, to labor fervently, to fight, to strive.”

Love, Walter, And Debbie

Sure sounds like Paul knew EXACTLY where he was going any moment of his death.

Have you honestly believed on the completed work of Jesus Christ? You post an awful lot of works and things YOU must do to attain or maintain your Salvation.

Philippians 1:21-23

New King James Version

21 For to me, to live is Christ, and to die is gain. 22 But if I live on in the flesh, this will mean fruit from my labor; yet what I shall choose I cannot tell. 23 For I am hard-pressed between the two, having a desire to depart and be with Christ, which is far better.

 

[VARob]

What are you talking about? Do you have any links or evidence?

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 2:
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Rom 3:
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

1 Cor 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Eph 3:
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Christianity was God's secret. Basically, it's that salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ, and it is open to all.

1 Cor 2:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery [secret], even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Think about that... If the devil had known God's secret, he would not have crucified Jesus Christ.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Sunday 7-2-23 1st. Day Of The Weekly Cycle, Tammuz 13 5783, 12th. Summer Day

To the Laodicean church, Christ declared – “To the one who conquers I will give a place with me on my throne, just as I myself conquered and sat down with my Father on his throne” (Rev.3:21). To everyone who CONQUERS God will give final SALVATION, glory, and majesty, in the Kingdom of God! Do you get it? Do you understand? Paul the apostle understood that we must endure to the end – that we must be FAITHFUL till our dying day, or till Christ returns (whichever comes first!). Paul wrote, of his own spiritual battle: “Do you not know that in a race the runners all compete, but only one receives the prize? RUN in such a way that you may WIN it. Athletes exercise self-control in all things; they do it to receive a perishable wreathe, but we an imperishable one. So I do not run aimlessly, nor do I box as though beating the air; but I punish my body and enslave it, so that after proclaiming to others I myself should not be disqualified” (I Cor.9:24-27, NRSV). Notice this in the Amplified Parallel Bible: “Do you not know that in a race all the runners compete, but [only] one receives the prize? So RUN [your race] so that you may lay hold [of the prize] and make it yours. . . Therefore I do not run uncertainly (without definite aim). I do not box like one beating the air and striking without an adversary.

But [like a boxer] I buffet my body [handle it roughly, discipline it by hardships] and subdue it, for fear that after proclaiming to others the Gospel and things pertaining to it, I MYSELF SHOULD BECOME UNFIT [not stand the test, be unapproved and rejected as a counterfeit].” “Eternal security” once you profess Christ? HOGWASH! Professing Christ is merely the BEGINNING of the Christian faith and walk! Once beginning, you must ENDURE TO THE END, OVERCOMING, CONQUERING, AND BRINGING YOUR SELF INTO SUBJECTION TO CHRIST! Paul also wrote about this battle in the second letter to the Corinthians. He declared, “For though we walk (live) in the flesh, we are not carrying on our warfare according to the flesh and using mere human weapons. For the weapons of our WARFARE are not physical [weapons of flesh and blood], but they are mighty before God for the overthrow and destruction of strongholds, [inasmuch as we] refute arguments and theories and reasonings and every proud and lofty thing that sets itself up against the [true] knowledge of God; and we lead every thought and purpose away captive into the OBEDIENCE of Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One), being in readiness to punish every [insubordinate for his] disobedience, when your own submission and OBEDIENCE [as a church] are fully secure and complete” (II Cor.10:3-6). Notice! We are not yet “fully secure and complete.” Rather, as Paul himself wrote to the Philippians, again quoting the Amplified Parallel Bible, “[For my determined purpose is] that I may know Him [that I may progressively become more deeply and intimately acquainted with Him, perceiving and recognizing and understanding the wonders of His Person more strongly and clearly], and that I may in that same say come to 6 know the power outflowing from His resurrection [which it exerts over believers], and that I may so share His sufferings as to be continually TRANSFORMED [in spirit into His likeness even] to His death, [in the hope] that IF POSSIBLE I may attain to the [personal and moral] RESURRECTION . . . Not that I have now attained [this ideal], or have already been made perfect, but I PRESS ON TO LAY HOLD OF (GRASP) and make my own, that for which Christ Jesus (the Messiah) has laid hold of me and made me His own.” (Phil.3:10-12).

Notice Paul’s attitude! He did not believe or claim to already have salvation, but sought to progressively GROW up into the likeness of Christ, so that “IF POSSIBLE” he may attain to the resurrection of the righteous dead, or salvation! “If possible”! It is not already “done.” It was NOT “settled at the cross.” It merely BEGAN at the cross, where Christ was crucified! Paul goes on, vehemently, saying, “I do not consider, brethren, that I have captured and made it my own [yet]; but one thing I do [it is my one aspiration]: forgetting what lies behind and straining forward to what lies ahead, I PRESS ON TOWARD THE GOAL TO WIN the [supreme and heavenly] prize to which God in Christ Jesus is calling us upward.” So, Paul declares, “So let those [of us] who are spiritually mature and full-grown have this mind and these convictions; and if in any respect you have a different attitude of mind, God will make that clear to you also” (verses 13-15). Is it all finished when you simply “accept Christ” as your Saviour? Absolutely NOT! The apostle Paul makes it perfectly plain. Once we begin the Christian life, there is a lot of overcoming to do – straining forward to make sure that we will enter the Kingdom of God and attain to salvation! We must “PRESS ON,” we must “STRAIN FORWARD,” and make sure that we win the ultimate prize! As the apostle Peter himself also declared that we must escape the moral decay and rottenness of human nature and become partakers of “the divine nature” (II Pet.1:4). He went on, “For this very reason, adding your diligence [to the divine promises], employ every effort in exercising your faith to develop virtue (excellence, resolution, Christian energy), and in [exercising] virtue [develop] knowledge (intelligence), and in [exercising] knowledge [develop] self-control, and in [exercising] self-control [develop] steadfastness (patience, endurance), and in [exercising] steadfastness [develop] godliness (piety), and in [exercising] piety [develop] brotherly affection, and in [exercising] brotherly affection [develop] Christian love.

For as these qualities are yours and increasingly abound in you, hey will keep [you] from being idle or unfruitful unto the [full personal] knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ (the Messiah, the Anointed One)” (verses 5-8). “Overcoming” human nature, the pulls of the flesh, the temptations of the world, and our natural proclivity to ‘sin’ – to break God’s commandments, involves a “whole lifetime” of work, diligent effort, growth, and steadfast endurance, to the very end – till either death comes, or the Messiah Himself returns! Peter summarizes the situation, saying, “For whoever lacks these qualities is blind, [spiritually] short-sighted, seeing only what is near to him, and has become oblivious [to the fact] that he was cleansed from his old sins. Because of this, brethren, be all the more solicitous and 7 eager to MAKE SURE (to ratify, to strengthen, to make steadfast) YOUR CALLING AND ELECTION, for IF YOU DO THIS, you will never stumble or fall. Thus there will be richly and abundantly provided for you entry into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ” (verses 9-11). Eternal security ONLY comes at the END of a life spent in overcoming, enduring, and serving God, to the very end! Therefore, as the apostle Paul also reminds us, we must constantly, diligently “work out” our own salvation. He declared to the church in Philippi, “Therefore, my dear ones, as you have always obeyed [my suggestions], so now, not only [with enthusiasm you would show] in my presence but much more because I am absent, WORK OUT (cultivate, carry out to the goal, and fully complete) YOUR OWN SALVATION with reverence and awe and trembling (self-distrust, with serious caution, tenderness of conscience, watchfulness against temptation, timidly shrinking from whatever might offend God and discredit the name of Christ)” (Phil.2:12).

We must “work out” our own salvation! How? With godly reverence, fear, awe, and trembling, knowing that if we don’t pay heed and do it, we could and would lose out on salvation, and all the glory that God promises to the believers who endure and overcome to the very end of their lives! That’s it! That’s what GOD says! Jesus Christ also declared, firmly and finally, “No one who puts his hand to the plow and looks back [to the things behind] is fit for the kingdom of God” (Luke 9:62). He also said, with finality: “Keep your loins girded and your lamps burning; and be like men who are waiting for their master to return home from the marriage feast, so that when he returns from the wedding and comes and knocks, they may open to him immediately” (Luke 12:35-36). He said with crystal clarity, “STRIVE to enter by the narrow door [force yourselves through it], for many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able” (Luke 13:24). The Greek word for “strive” here is agonizomai , from agon, meaning “contest, conflict, contention, fight, race.” It means “to contend, to endeavor, to labor fervently, to fight, to strive.” We get our English words “agony” and “agonize” from this Greek root. Again, the Messiah compares the Christian life to that of a battle-hardened soldier or warrior, who is assaulting a castle or city with strongholds. Jesus declared, as the Moffatt translation says, “From the days of John the Baptist until now, they are pressing into the Realm of heaven – these eager souls are storming it!” (Matt.11:12). “And from the days of John the Baptist until the present time, the kingdom of heaven has endured violent assault, and violent men seize it by force [as a precious prize – a share in the heavenly kingdom is sought with most ardent zeal and intense exertion]” (Amplified Parallel Bible, same verse).

Love, Walter, And Debbie

Amen Paul was a disciple as we are

 

[Walter]

John 7:39 (But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)

Acts 2:
16 But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel;
17 And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:
33 Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Rom 3:
20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets;
22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference:

1 Cor 9:17 For if I do this thing willingly, I have a reward: but if against my will, a dispensation of the gospel is committed unto me.

Eph 3:
2 If ye have heard of the dispensation of the grace of God which is given me to you-ward:
3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words,
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;

Christianity was God's secret. Basically, it's that salvation is by faith in Jesus Christ, and it is open to all.

1 Cor 2:
7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery [secret], even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

Think about that... If the devil had known God's secret, he would not have crucified Jesus Christ.

Thank you, VARob

Love, Walter

 

[Pilgrimshope]

How does one come to progressively grow up into the image of Christ without being saved?

What do you mean by “saved ? “

 

[Pilgrimshope]

How do we grow into the likeness of Christ? I want to make sure I'm save in the end, so what is the path? Can you condense it into a few sentences?

you hear and believe Jesus in the gospel

 

[Cameron143]

What do you mean by “saved ? “

Possessing eternal life.

 

[ThereRoseaLamb]

Faith without works is dead.

Saved BY grace/faith FOR good works.

 

[Walter]

Saved BY grace/faith FOR good works.

?