Notice Paul’s Attitude! He Did Not Believe Or Claim To Already Have Salvation, But Sought To Progressively GROW Up Into The Likeness Of Christ,

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Pilgrimshope

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Sep 2, 2020
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I do not believe water baptism is required. There is one baptism that matters (Eph 4:5) and that's baptism in the Holy Spirit, the Christian new birth.
yeah there’s actually just one baptism the one God ordained and Christ partook of and commanded baptism for repentance and remission of sins like this Jesus was baptized and received the holy ghost

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And the church

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

One could say “ well that’s not “ water “ baptism but we’re tbat oracticing a false irrelevant baptism because modern Christianity doesn’t believe in it ?

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-39‬ ‭

Are you saying they didn’t understand what you do and we’re practicing this meaningless water baptism ? Or when Peter commands it to gentiles ? He didn’t understand ?

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-45, 47-48‬ ‭

We can imagine there’s some other secret baptism but the bible teaches one baptism for the remission of sins in the name of Jesus Christ it was ordained by God when he sent John the Baptist ( Elijah ) to prepare people for Jesus Christ and the gospel with the doctrine of baptism for remission of sins so our old sins can be remitted through his death whoch we are baptized into

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ( buried beneath the water in his name ) that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ( raised up by the man of God from the water we were buried in with Jesus )

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism is just baptism it’s a doctrine that prepares us to receive remission of sins and a new life
 
Dec 21, 2020
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yeah there’s actually just one baptism the one God ordained and Christ partook of and commanded baptism for repentance and remission of sins like this Jesus was baptized and received the holy ghost

“Now when all the people were baptized, it came to pass, that Jesus also being baptized, and praying, the heaven was opened, and the Holy Ghost descended in a bodily shape like a dove upon him, and a voice came from heaven, which said, Thou art my beloved Son; in thee I am well pleased.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭3:21-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And the church

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins,

and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.


For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.


And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

One could say “ well that’s not “ water “ baptism but we’re tbat oracticing a false irrelevant baptism because modern Christianity doesn’t believe in it ?

“And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?

And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.

And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him. And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:36-39‬ ‭

Are you saying they didn’t understand what you do and we’re practicing this meaningless water baptism ? Or when Peter commands it to gentiles ? He didn’t understand ?

“And he commanded us to preach unto the people, and to testify that it is he which was ordained of God to be the Judge of quick and dead. To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost. Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:42-45, 47-48‬ ‭

We can imagine there’s some other secret baptism but the bible teaches one baptism for the remission of sins in the name of Jesus Christ it was ordained by God when he sent John the Baptist ( Elijah ) to prepare people for Jesus Christ and the gospel with the doctrine of baptism for remission of sins so our old sins can be remitted through his death whoch we are baptized into

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: ( buried beneath the water in his name ) that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. ( raised up by the man of God from the water we were buried in with Jesus )

For if we have been planted together in the likeness of his death, we shall be also in the likeness of his resurrection: knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

baptism is just baptism it’s a doctrine that prepares us to receive remission of sins and a new life
Thanks for your thoughts.

1 Cor 12:
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Rom 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 1:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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Thanks for your thoughts.

1 Cor 12:
13 For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.

Rom 10:
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

Eph 1:
13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
“For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. “

right this spirit that God ordained to baptize and filled John the Baptist with to baptize people and prepare them for Christ and receiving the gospel themselves …..

“But the angel said unto him, Fear not, Zacharias: for thy prayer is heard; and thy wife Elisabeth shall bear thee a son, and thou shalt call his name John. And thou shalt have joy and gladness; and many shall rejoice at his birth. For he shall be great in the sight of the Lord, and shall drink neither wine nor strong drink; and he shall be filled with the Holy Ghost, even from his mother's womb. And many of the children of Israel shall he turn to the Lord their God. And he shall go before him in the spirit and power of Eliajah , to turn the hearts of the fathers to the children, and the disobedient to the wisdom of the just; to make ready a people prepared for the Lord.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭1:13-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬


What Paul is saying is there is one holy spirit one baptism the one baptism that God sent John the Baptist to do by the Holy Spirit that filled him from his mothers womb the spirit of Elijah the prophet promosed at the conclusion of the ot

you are acting as if God didn’t send John the baptizer to baptize or that the baptism God established by his holy spirit isnt the right one the same he witnessed in the prophets beforehand

You also can’t answer this question Jesus posed because you read of baptism and think there are different ones one that Gods spirit didn’t ordain and another which isn’t in scripture that is spiritual baptism is the one God established in the gospel it’s the only real baptism there is it’s always been of the holy spirit

“And he answered and said unto them, I will also ask you one thing; and answer me: The baptism of John, was it from heaven, or of men?”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭20:3-4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The answer is it was established by the purpose and Will of God and is witnessed in the prophets along with Christ

“Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith the LORD of hosts.”
‭‭Malachi‬ ‭3:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the only difference is that after Jesus ascended he began giving the gift of the holy spirit to all believers this doesn’t replace baptism for remission of sins

you can receive the Holy Spirit and then are commanded to be baptized in his name for remission of sins in water like the example I showed you

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.

(after that )

Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44, 47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

receiving the Holy Spirit isn’t a replacement for baptism into Christs death and resurrection for remission of sins in his name

There’s no reason in scripture to create a second baptism this reference

“I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭3:11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Is a simple reference to Pentecost when the spirit would be poured out on the flesh of man and women

…but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me.

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence. But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judæa, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5, 8‬ ‭

John was foretelling this

“And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance.

…But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judæa, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:3-4, 14, 16-18‬

That’s what John meant by “ he will baptize you with the Holy Ghost “ it doesn’t change baptism for remission of sins in any way it’s only that now we know the name we are baptized into who died for our sins in other words

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

receiving the Holy Spirit isn’t about his death for our sins it’s about rebirth through his resurrection afterwards being forgiven and born anew

a ring baptized is about God severing our past sins from existance through death his death in stead of ours all we have to do is

believe this

“For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭15:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“for this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭26:28‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death?”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And then just act like we believe it it’s always going to lead us to act if we hear and believe what’s being said in scriptire

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-39, 41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

To reduce it to basics

“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Through hearing and belief of the gospel we receive the holy spirit , through herring about baptism we will act in that faith of we believe it but many simply don’t do we try to subtract it from wha to being said it means to us and there’s way more we could learn about baptism but we can’t because we won’t even accept that it’s doctrine the same baptism Jesus partook of is the right baptism the one God established by John filled with his Holy Spirit an ordained from before his north to establish the ministry of baptism for repentance and remission of sins

“John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The baptism that would be in full effect at pentocost which Peter preached in acts three just as John preached just as Phillip performed in acts 8 just as Paul partook of after he received his sight after three days blind , just as Peter commanded the gentiles in acts chapter 10 who received the spirit by belief

because remission of sins is different than receiving the holy ghost those are two different things one is an act of faith tone who hears this and believes it ll get baptized gladly and with joy because of Jesus promise in it

preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

faith is to hear and believe the good news like that “believe the gospel and get baptized and you shall be saved “ said the lord of all things in heaven and earth

Who of they believed this wouldn’t just simply go believing and get baptized ? The one spirit filled John the baotizer sent of God to establish baptism there’s absolutely no reason to not accept baptism Jesus did all his disciples did ll the later converts to the church did l the apostles did the Ethiopian in acts 8 did the gentiles in acts 10 did

the right baptism in Christ is the one he partook of as an example for his followers
 

Magenta

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Jul 3, 2015
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“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:15-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Mark 16:15
:)
 
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you are acting as if God didn’t send John the baptizer to baptize or that the baptism God established by his holy spirit isnt the right one the same he witnessed in the prophets beforehand
No I'm not.

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Again, thanks for your thoughts.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
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No I'm not.

Matt 3:11 I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:

Again, thanks for your thoughts.


You’re welcome but you should pay attention more to scriptire and what thought is gives you like see your wuote there ?

he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and with fire:”

of you would scan through those scriptures you would see this part so you could understand that single scripture

“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. ( see John 14-17)

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“And there appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance. But Peter, standing up with the eleven, lifted up his voice, and said unto them, Ye men of Judæa, and all ye that dwell at Jerusalem, be this known unto you, and hearken to my words: But this is that which was spoken by the prophet Joel; And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: And your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, And your young men shall see visions, And your old men shall dream dreams: And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:3-4, 14, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and would note that’s what John was talking about and also note this

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJ

“While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word. Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:44, 47-48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Water and spirit baptism for remission ( act of faith because you believe what you heard )

and receiving the promise of the Holy Ghost ( because you believe what you heard )

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call. And with many other words did he testify and exhort, saying, Save yourselves from this untoward generation. Then they that gladly received his word were baptized: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38-41‬ ‭KJV‬‬

abut of course I’m sure some of them said “ I dont need that darn water baptism that was just for Jesus and his disciples “ and we all aren’t forced to believe anything it’s just odd that Jesus and all his disciples in the Bible partook of being baptized as the gospel established it but now there a different baptism that’s the real baptism yet no one can explain what it is or show any scripture explaining how baptism changed or became irrelevant or how Jesus and his disciples all
Overtook of some incorrect inneffextive baptism

Maybe it’s just beyond my ability to understand this new baptism that emerged in the modern gospel of grace books I’m not sure I suppose I’ll stick with following the example of Christ and his apostles and disciples regarding baptism
 
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“and, being assembled together with them, commanded them that they should not depart from Jerusalem, but wait for the promise of the Father, which, saith he, ye have heard of me. ( see John 14-17)

For John truly baptized with water; but ye shall be baptized with the Holy Ghost not many days hence.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭1:4-5‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Thanks. They help prove my point.

“Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.”
‭‭John‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJ
"Born of water" is referring to natural human birth, not water baptism.

Maybe it’s just beyond my ability to understand this new baptism that emerged in the modern gospel of grace books I’m not sure I suppose I’ll stick with following the example of Christ and his apostles and disciples regarding baptism
You go right ahead. :) There is certainly no harm in getting water baptized. But again, the "one baptism" that matters is the Christian new birth: baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Thanks again.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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The mere fact you're working so hard to evade my direct question tells me all I need to know. I don't have time to waste with these mind games. Goodbye.
Interesting that you find sharing scripture as a mind game. The word is what will be the final judge.
 

HealthAndHappiness

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Jul 7, 2022
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Almost Heaven West Virginia
"1Moreover, brethren, I declare unto you the gospel which I preached unto you, which also ye have received, and wherein ye stand; 2By which also ye are saved, if ye keep in memory what I preached unto you, unless ye have believed in vain. 3For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 4And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:"

I Corinthians 15:1-4
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Paul was addressing far more than circumcision.
I was referencing the OT mandate of circumcision in the book:

"O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you?
2 This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?
3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh?" Gal 3:1-3


"Stand fast therefore in the liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free, and be not entangled again with the yoke of bondage.
2 Behold, I Paul say unto you, that if ye be circumcised, Christ shall profit you nothing.
3 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law.
4 Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.
5 For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith.
6 For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love.
7 Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth?
8 This persuasion cometh not of him that calleth you.
9 A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump." Gal. 5:1-9
 
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I was referencing the OT mandate of circumcision in the book:
Again, Paul was addressing far more than circumcision.

Gal 4:
9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements, whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
10 Ye observe days, and months, and times, and years.
11 I am afraid of you, lest I have bestowed upon you labour in vain.
 

Wansvic

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Nov 27, 2018
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Thanks. They help prove my point.


"Born of water" is referring to natural human birth, not water baptism.


You go right ahead. :) There is certainly no harm in getting water baptized. But again, the "one baptism" that matters is the Christian new birth: baptism in the Holy Spirit.

Thanks again.
Have you ever considered why the NT scriptures record the need to be water baptized in the name of Jesus as well as being indwelt with the Holy Ghost? (Acts 2:36-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) Are you aware that scripture confirms Paul was still preaching the need for both 20+ years after Pentecost? (Acts 19:1-7) If in fact being filled with the Holy Ghost was a replacement for water baptism this would not be so.
 
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Have you ever considered why the NT scriptures record the need to be water baptized in the name of Jesus as well as being indwelt with the Holy Ghost? (Acts 2:36-42, 8:12-18, 10:43-48, 19:1-7, 22:16) Are you aware that scripture confirms Paul was still preaching the need for both 20+ years after Pentecost? (Acts 19:1-7) If in fact being filled with the Holy Ghost was a replacement for water baptism this would not be so.
All of the references in Acts are before Paul received the revelation to write his epistles, where again, he states there is ONE baptism. It is by the one Spirit that we are baptized into the body of Christ.

Again, if a person wants to be water baptized, great, go for it. But it’s not necessary for salvation.
 

Blade

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Nov 19, 2019
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Ok "To everyone who CONQUERS God will give final SALVATION, glory, and majesty, in the Kingdom of God! Do you get it? Do you understand?" Hey W and D if you are referring to Rev 3:21. They are the overcomers, who have shared with Christ in His triumph over sin and Satan will share His throne. There is nothing before or after that.. that talks about "God will give final salvations". I know a man that took me a year or two to finally see. Well what he said all the time lined up and in the word yet something was off I just didn't know so put it on a shelve. He over time he said "you never know your saved until after you die". Something that is not written.

You talking about salvation which reminded me of him not saying your him or like him lol. What you said my bother is not what is written. It would have been better to add "I believe To everyone who CONQUERS God will give final SALVATION, glory, and majesty, in the Kingdom of God! Do you get it? Do you understand?" To that I disagree bless you

If we read in Eph I think it is by grace you have been saved through faith. Yeah ya can't twist "have been". For me its not a gift I just can't open yet :) Its no gift for me He takes back. A free gift.. I took it I am forever living with Christ. I am seated in heavenly places and I boldly come before His throne which I could not do if I was not made new, put on the new man, saved, born from above, born again, regenerated. HAHA just blessed myself.. PRAISE GOD GLORY TO JESUS..
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Again, if a person wants to be water baptized, great, go for it. But it’s not necessary for salvation.
Water baptism may not be necessary for salvation, but it is absolutely necessary for sanctification. And that is why it is Christ's COMMANDMENT to every new believer. And pitting Paul against Christ is simply pathetic. Paul was speaking of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. But when the household of Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Ghost, Peter immediately commanded them to be baptized through Christian baptism (which is by immersion). And as one goes through the book of Acts, one sees that the apostles were doing exactly what Christ commanded. And they would not allow any delay between conversion and baptism, since there is great spiritual significance to this. It is not a mere ritual. Indeed Paul needed t be baptized before he could begin his ministry.
 
Dec 21, 2020
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Water baptism may not be necessary for salvation, but it is absolutely necessary for sanctification. And that is why it is Christ's COMMANDMENT to every new believer. And pitting Paul against Christ is simply pathetic. Paul was speaking of the baptism with the Holy Spirit. But when the household of Cornelius was baptized with the Holy Ghost, Peter immediately commanded them to be baptized through Christian baptism (which is by immersion). And as one goes through the book of Acts, one sees that the apostles were doing exactly what Christ commanded. And they would not allow any delay between conversion and baptism, since there is great spiritual significance to this. It is not a mere ritual. Indeed Paul needed t be baptized before he could begin his ministry.
Thanks for your opinion. I do not agree.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
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Thanks for your opinion. I do not agree.
There is a huge difference between an opinion and Bible facts. I have listed several Bible facts which anyone can verify. So in fact you are disagreeing with Scripture, not my opinion. But what you have postulated is in fact opinion.
 
Dec 21, 2020
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There is a huge difference between an opinion and Bible facts. I have listed several Bible facts which anyone can verify. So in fact you are disagreeing with Scripture, not my opinion. But what you have postulated is in fact opinion.
I disagree with some of your understanding of Scripture, and what you think are Bible facts.
 
N

Niki7

Guest
Many can not bring themselves to accept the word of God...

"Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone." James 2:17

"But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James 2:20
Notice that faith comes before the works. We are saved through FAITH in our Lord Jesus Christ. James is not saying works save or salvation is faith plus works.

How I do wish people would stop trying to prove their own understandings and just promote what the actual word of God states.

It would be so refreshing.