Why tongues of fire at Pentecost?

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posthuman

Senior Member
Jul 31, 2013
37,844
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#21
i have been watching this Thread to what answers are provided while breaking down the Greek for this Verse. what's really intriguing is the Verse claims that Languages, in the form of PYRO [COMBINATION of “fire,” “heat,” “high temperature,”], literally sits down on them and then begins distributing to one another and they keep splitting and distributing.
interestingly also in Exodus 19:16 the word translated as 'thunderings' means 'voices' - and there is an element of fire present too.

There is a great parallel IMO between Pentecost and Mt Sinai
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,887
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#22
The witness of Christ was first to the Hebrews.

Initially Jesus sent out His disciples to the lost sheep of Israel:

These twelve Jesus sent out and commanded them, saying: “Do not go into the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter a city of the Samaritans. But go rather to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’


He later confirmed the same:

But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

As it were, all of the disciples were Jews. When you want to deliver a message to Jews, choosing people who know Jewish tradition and customs to carry the message makes sense.

Then Christ appeared after His death and said this to the disciples:

“But you shall receive power when the Holy Spirit has come upon you; and you shall be witnesses to Me in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the end of the earth.”

While they waited in one accord, the Spirit fell on them. They spoke in tongues and this is recorded about the tongues of fire:

"Then there appeared to them divided tongues, as of fire, and one sat upon each of them." They also began to speak in other tongues.

After this, a crowd of mostly Jews (and Cretans and Arabs) from all parts of the region gathered near to them. It is not clear if they saw the fire or not. It is clear that the heard the disciples speaking in tongues. And they marveled:

"And when this sound occurred, the multitude came together, and were confused, because everyone heard them speak in his own language."

and

"So they were all amazed and perplexed, saying to one another, “Whatever could this mean?”

Peter stood up and said that the language they (the crowd) heard was the fulfillment of prophesy:

‘And it shall come to pass in the last days, says God,
That I will pour out of My Spirit on all flesh;
Your sons and your daughters shall prophesy...


Understanding the tongues of fire takes wisdom.

Historically, God used fire to denote moments of His direct intervention. The disciples, who were all Jews, would have understood Hebrew history and known this.

Assuming that THEY were the only ones who saw the fire, it was given as a sign TO THEM, validating their ministry. They were about to preach that the kingdom of God and His Christ has come to the world, disrupting the political and religious hegemony of their region. God KNEW they needed a sign for assurance. God also knew the Jews would understand fire as a sign of His direct intervention.

Tongues, then, was a sign to the unbelieving crowd:

"Therefore tongues are for a sign, not to those who believe but to unbelievers...

But immediately after the sign of tongues is explained to the crowd, Peter began to prophesy. And why not: prophesying is for those who believe. As it is written...

"...but prophesying is... for those who believe."

He then calls them to repent, as is fitting anyone who has been convicted. And the church adds a multitude to their ranks.

 
Feb 21, 2016
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#23
yeah the chaff is burned up this chaff

“For from within, out of the heart of men, proceed evil thoughts, adulteries, fornications, murders, thefts, covetousness, wickedness, deceit, lasciviousness, an evil eye, blasphemy, pride, foolishness: all these evil things come from within, and defile the man.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭7:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Matthew 25:32-33
All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

Even a non believer is under the Law of the Commandments.And those who refuse to repent, and be washed with the water, and blood will be placed on the left.Those who believe will be placed on the right.The cloven tongues of fire is the Word.

God's Word backs up what he revealed to me that we are made in his image.And that image is in the Spirit,water,and the blood.
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
13,067
4,349
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#24
It is not speculation; there was a fire on the burning bush. Was there not? Is not God All Consuming fire? Did not the fire of the Holy Spirit Consume those in the upper Room? Enclothed with POWER!
yet there were not burned?
 

Lamar

Active member
May 21, 2023
955
143
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#25
The same fire that Appeared to Moses, the same fire that took Elijah into Heaven, the same Fire that was there by light for the Hebrews in the wilderness. Our God is an all-consuming FIRE!!!

The Holy Spirit enclothed them with Power and Holy Ghost fire.
To your questions.
1. Yes; 2. Yes; 3. No;
Where please it is written that those in the upper room were consumed with fire?
This Event you cant compare with an other Event in the bible.
Nor does it happen today.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
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#26
Matthew 25:32-33
All the nations will be gathered before Him, and He will separate them one from another, as a shepherd divides his sheep from the goats.And He will set the sheep on His right hand, but the goats on the left.

Even a non believer is under the Law of the Commandments.And those who refuse to repent, and be washed with the water, and blood will be placed on the left.Those who believe will be placed on the right.The cloven tongues of fire is the Word.

God's Word backs up what he revealed to me that we are made in his image.And that image is in the Spirit,water,and the blood.
“Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:”
‭‭Jeremiah‬ ‭31:31-32‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant. Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left.

The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭24:5-6, 20‬ ‭

“Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them. They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭48:6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth:

and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭65:17‬ ‭


“The law and the prophets were until John:

since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭16:16‬ ‭

“Now after that John was put in prison, Jesus came into Galilee, preaching the gospel of the kingdom of God, and saying, The time is fulfilled, and the kingdom of God is at hand: repent ye, and believe the gospel.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭1:14-15‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The law will always apply to every person on earth until they die

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

christians freedom is here

“Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized into Jesus Christ were baptized into his death? Therefore we are buried with him by baptism into death: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life. knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭6:3-4, 6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

and because of that

Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man ( only ) as long as he liveth? Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ;

that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. ( marriage of the lamb )

For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.

But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:1, 4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

remember he said he was going to write his law on hearts when he came that’s what the gospel and believing does Jesus is everyone’s judge not Moses Moses law will Only judge all guilty of sin that’s all it can do salvstion is about those who die in Christ and are born anew in him by this doctrine not Moses word but Jesus word of truth and life and light where we find gods true righteousness without the law when it’s removed through Jesus death and baptism because of belief

“But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: for all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

What I’m saying is Moses word isnt the last word that judges us it’s what Jesus said and thank God because it’s about saving us not condemning us for sin

He that rejecteth me, and receiveth not my words, hath one that judgeth him: the word that I have spoken, the same shall judge him in the last day.

For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak. And I know that his commandment is life everlasting: whatsoever I speak therefore, even as the Father said unto me, so I speak.”
‭‭John‬ ‭12:48-50‬ ‭KJV‬‬

It’s Jesus and his word we have to give account to the law is all unbelievers are going to have to judge then guilty the gospel is all believers have that will remit thier sins and calls them righteous and breath new life into them
 

p_rehbein

Senior Member
Sep 4, 2013
30,704
6,892
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#27
When the Apostles and others gathered in the Upper Room per the directions of Jesus, they were waiting to be sanctified by the Holy Spirit, even if they didn't understand it at the time.

Sanctifiction comes through the receiving the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit, and this occurs when one or more sanctified believers lay hands on and pray over a new convert. At Pentecost, there were no sanctified believers yet because the Holy Spirit had not yet been sent until them.

For this reason, the Holy Spirit came to those in the Upper Room and filled them with His being making them sanctified believers who then had the "spiritual understanding" of Scripture taught to them by the Holy Spirit

From that time on, sanctified believers existed and were able to lay hands on and pray over newly saved disciples so they might receive the indwelling presence of the Holy Spirit.

The Apostle Paul did this very thing as revealed in the Book of Acts.
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
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#30
Ok....
@Aaron56 has given the best partial answer up to this point.
But
He left out a key piece of information....

And that was God's promise to Abram now known as Abraham....by changing his name.

And this "speaking in tongues" was the fulfillment of the promise. The diaspora was part of God's plan all along....because of it the languages/nations would become children of Abraham...who was to be the father of many nations.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,887
1,684
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#31
Ok....
@Aaron56 has given the best partial answer up to this point.
But
He left out a key piece of information....

And that was God's promise to Abram now known as Abraham....by changing his name.

And this "speaking in tongues" was the fulfillment of the promise. The diaspora was part of God's plan all along....because of it the languages/nations would become children of Abraham...who was to be the father of many nations.
So, first the natural, then the spiritual.

Abraham, the father of many nations and then Christ the King, the heavenly father of the multitude no one can count.

I can dig it. ;)
 

JohnDB

Well-known member
Jan 16, 2021
6,235
2,530
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#32
So, first the natural, then the spiritual.

Abraham, the father of many nations and then Christ the King, the heavenly father of the multitude no one can count.

I can dig it. ;)
It's just that whole promise thing that gives me goosebumps. God promised Abraham and thousands of years later He never forgot or wavered from it....He was working towards it diligently the whole time.

When God was walking the blood path as a "smoking pirepot" and later it was God as a burning bush to Moses..then having a river of fire beneath him to Daniel....

"God is a consuming fire" and on and on the typology is coming through the scriptures. Also following the pillar of fire at night in the wilderness....and you picked up on this aspect of it all.

So we are in agreement and together we have the complete answer.
Great job!