Have i committed the what is described in Hebrews 10:26 please any help would be appreciated

[Scripturalaccuracy]

If you attest that your sin is sin then you accept Gods teaching on the matter.. Then you never sinned "Wilfully"....

Hebrews 10: KJV
"26 For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,"

Wilfull sin takes a wilfull in your face rebellious attitude against the standards of God.. Wilfull sin is not simply sinning.. It is rejecting the Will of God on the matter of that sin and being proud of ones sin..

That is unBiblical and made up.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

I have been studying the Scriptures with extreme self honesty for well over 30 years and I understand the contextual meaning better than most seminary trained heretical "pastors" and I will tell you this much, that verse as well as a bunch of other verses that basically say the same thing mean either one of two things, either that any occasion of willful sin once one knows better and has accepted CHRIST ALMIGHTY is enough to cause them to lose their Salvation to the point they can never get it back because it falls into the category of unforgivable sin since it "does despite to THE SPIRIT of Grace" and CHRIST is not going to come down and go to the cross again to clean you a second time, especially of the unforgivable sin, or else it means maybe somehow, and believe me, this makes the least contextual sense, that if we will stop and repent again for real, that maybe there is still some hope for us, but as I say, contextually that is highly doubtful.

First of all, I very much agree with a lot of what you said in the entirety of your post.

In relation to this specific part of your post, although we should definitely be fearful where sinning willfully is concerned after having been reconciled back unto God through Christ, I do believe that, in the context of the entire epistle of Hebrews, and in the context of the entirety of the Bible, the writer here was not talking about a single incident of offense or sin after receiving Christ.

For example, this same writer admonished his hearers to not despise the chastening of the Lord elsewhere in this epistle, and God would not be chastening or scourging his sons if they were walking in sinless perfection, but instead if they were erring at times.

When one is truly saved or born again, they are likened to a child in a spiritual sense. Children go through stages of growth, and I believe that the Bible allows for the same. What is important is that we are truly seeking to ever grow in our faith, and those who are truly of God's five-fold ministry, as most people call it, will encourage or admonish us to do just that.

Ephesians 4:8-16

"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love."

True apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers are given by Christ for the perfecting of the saints or to bring us to full spiritual maturity as perfect men who have attained to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. Of course, like I said before, seeing how we all start out as children, spiritually speaking, after having received the new birth, there is inevitably going to be a growing process, and we are going to stumble at times along the way. However, we must never take such times of stumbling lightly, but we must quickly repent and continue moving forward in our quests to be more and more like Christ.

Everything that you described in your post, in my estimation, falls under the category of the lack of the fear of God. Christians should fear God (cue the scripture-twisters who will insist otherwise), and it is through the fear of God that we should ever be growing in sanctification or separation unto our God.

2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God."

 

[wattie]

I am in the same boat of worrying about that and other similar passages in the Bible, because I too willingly did what I knew to be sin after having known the truth and accepted CHRIST ALMIGHTY as GOD and SAVIOR, but unlike most believers i am not one to sugar coat reality or lie to myself. These are the end times and the great tribulation is very near, but the great tribulation begins with the great apostasy or the great falling away of believers to a false "savior" or "god" or any falsehood at all that removes them from true Christianity, and already many if not most believers believe many falsehoods and heresies and cling to them vigorously and stubbornly because they are things they want to hear instead of what is real.

This situation is no different, notice how most people here tell you it's all going to be fine and surely you haven't lost Salvation and that the whole issue is either of small or no concern? This is because not one of them is willing to face the fact that willing sin after having known better and accepted Salvation is a very very severe sin for which maybe, just maybe, there is not any forgiveness. Now I am not 100% sure myself the final verdict about meaning of not only Hebrews 10:26 but also many other verses in the Word that state that willful sin is a very serious and dangerous thing.

Many people will tell you that 'once saved always save' but the contextual reading of the Bible makes it clear that this is NOT the case at all and that such thinking is highly heretical and unBiblical ear tickling. Also some others might tell you that Hebrews 10:26 is about animal sacrifice but that is just plain absurd as contextual reading makes it clear that it was referring to THE LORD's sacrifice that was being referred to. And still others have many absurd and unBiblical "explanations" all of which attempt to negate the idea that we can lose our Salvation from willfully sinning, but every one of them is 100%motivated by the desire to believe that by people who have all very likely willfully sinned and want to give themselves hope even at the expense of logic and actual doctrine.

I have been studying the Scriptures with extreme self honesty for well over 30 years and I understand the contextual meaning better than most seminary trained heretical "pastors" and I will tell you this much, that verse as well as a bunch of other verses that basically say the same thing mean either one of two things, either that any occasion of willful sin once one knows better and has accepted CHRIST ALMIGHTY is enough to cause them to lose their Salvation to the point they can never get it back because it falls into the category of unforgivable sin since it "does despite to THE SPIRIT of Grace" and CHRIST is not going to come down and go to the cross again to clean you a second time, especially of the unforgivable sin, or else it means maybe somehow, and believe me, this makes the least contextual sense, that if we will stop and repent again for real, that maybe there is still some hope for us, but as I say, contextually that is highly doubtful.

Ever notice how modern churches don't have any real miracles, just fake jibberish "speaking in tongues" that is not any language at all and is also not in any proper order or with any interpriters? Or how there is no true prophesy but rather fake prophets that act like psychic reader hotline script readers with the "I'm sensing there is someone in the audience wearing blue and they need..., blah blah blah" nothing specific or truly prophetic or readily visible to the congregation? Or how almost no pastors or believers at all study to understand the Word in context but rather dice it up into bite sized pieces that sound like a Hallmark cards and are either too lenient or too harsh and unrighteously judgemental? Or how many atheists claim they were "real Christians' but GOD would never talk to them so they decided HE "isn't real"? This is because very likely ALL these people willfully sinned and cut themselves off from CHRIST ALMIGHTY. But many still want to tell themselves they are Heaven-bound or otherwise in no spiritual danger, so just make up whatever they want to hear and rationalize it with mutual agreement and or whatever they want to hear, such as out of context bible verses and quotes of human "Bible scholars".

I don't want it to be true that people like myself can't be saved and are bound for hell, but unless there is some very specific contextual mystery which still eludes me that might just be the case. But we should never give up and always keep striving to be obedient and GODly (because contrary to what the OSAS heretics say, true faith requires actual obedience to be real) and carefully, with prayers for wisdom and understanding, study the Bible in context. because if there is any chance of still being let into Heaven that is the only way, and also because even if we will fail to get to Heaven we should still come as close as possible and try to obtain the least bad level of condemnation possible because believe me, no one can endure the pain and the further down one gets condemned due to the greater depth of sin, the more extreme the suffering.

The modern church is largely heretical and rapidly heading for apostasy, if you want any chance at all you will have to take your faith and understanding and obedience a LOT more seriously than they do.

Animal sacrifice is the primary context of Hebrews 10. Indeed most of the entire book of Hebrews, when talking about sacrifice! It isn't out of context. The Lord's sacrifice is part of it also.. but not the subject of 10:26 in Hebrews.

 

[Scripturalaccuracy]

--I will just use your message to respond so it's simpler for me. And I appreciate you being less hateful than most are when replying to that particular theory.

"First of all, I very much agree with a lot of what you said in the entirety of your post..

In relation to this specific part of your post, although we should definitely be fearful where sinning willfully is concerned after having been reconciled back unto God through Christ, I do believe that, in the context of the entire epistle of Hebrews, and in the context of the entirety of the Bible, the writer here was not talking about a single incident of offense or sin after receiving Christ.

For example, this same writer admonished his hearers to not despise the chastening of the Lord elsewhere in this epistle, and God would not be chastening or scourging his sons if they were walking in sinless perfection, but instead if they were erring at times."

--HE chastens us even when we don't sin to show us the truth and depth of our own commitment as well as for sins which we do not willingly commit because we didn't know they were sins, ie, if we not commit a sin leading unto death. There is a question, what is a sin leading unto death? Could it be any of the capitol sins from the Commandments, or could it only be the spiritually lethal sin of disrespecting THE SPIRIT or could it just be a sin that was willful and therefore spiritually lethal. We don't know because the Bible left some things intentionally vague so that they would wither require extreme contextual understanding of the most elusive Scriptural mysteries or so that understanding them would simply not be possible without Guidance directly from GOD.


"When one is truly saved or born again, they are likened to a child in a spiritual sense. Children go through stages of growth, and I believe that the Bible allows for the same. What is important is that we are truly seeking to ever grow in our faith, and those who are truly of God's five-fold ministry, as most people call it, will encourage or admonish us to do just that."


--A well meaning child makes mistakes as course of learning, but intentional rebellion is another thing. Imagine if Mary Magdalane had gone straight out and fornicated with another man right after CHRIST had instructed her to "sin no more", do you really think HE would have considered that the act of a child that was just learning or an ungrateful and disrespectful criminal who counted the forgiveness that just not only saved her from stoning but from drowning in violent burning darkness forever. People tend to be so caught up in rationalizing how they can still be saved they forget just how serious this all is and also just general rational comprehension of the contextual text.

"Ephesians 4:8-16

"Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things) And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.""

--That passage is still describing children who are learning about the wiles of the devil to avoid them, not to just go indulge a while then come back wiping their mouth and saying "oh that sure was tasty, now forgive me so I can avoid punishment for it" Which is so disrespectful it's amazing people can't see it.

"True apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers are given by Christ for the perfecting of the saints or to bring us to full spiritual maturity as perfect men who have attained to the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ. Of course, like I said before, seeing how we all start out as children, spiritually speaking, after having received the new birth, there is inevitably going to be a growing process, and we are going to stumble at times along the way. However, we must never take such times of stumbling lightly, but we must quickly repent and continue moving forward in our quests to be more and more like Christ."

--Stumbling is a far cry from willful returning to wallow in the mire. Examine yourself, can't you see that you yourself are just grasping at unlikely straws to tell yourself that willful sin can be forgiven, even though it really doesn't seem to say that anywhere in the Bible?


"Everything that you described in your post, in my estimation, falls under the category of the lack of the fear of God. Christians should fear God (cue the scripture-twisters who will insist otherwise), and it is through the fear of God that we should ever be growing in sanctification or separation unto our God."


--I would hypothesize that the constant aggressive and generally irrational drive to preach that willful sin can be forgiven or as a normal part of the sanctification process lacks fear of THE LORD, as it often flies directly against the given message and also just the general reality of the thing. If someone treated you the way we are presumably allowed to treat GOD how tolerable would it really be? And we are sinful wretches who should forgive nearly anything, but HE IS perfect and paid a horror of pain for us in ways and depths we can't imagine to give us one dear and precious chance, but do we not count it indeed common or cheap to think we can get that precious thing over and over again just because we feel like indulging in the shallow filthy pleasure of sin? Believe me, I have seen a tiny glimpse of hell and I dearly do not want to be damned, and I still hold out a tiny shred of hope that there really is a way, but I'm not just going to do what most do and stretch the Scriptures past credulity to tell myself what I want to hear. If it's really true i want solid doctrinal proof. I think lying to oneself will make the shock pain of damnation just that much worse.



"2 Corinthians 6:14-7:1

"Be ye not unequally yoked together with unbelievers: for what fellowship hath righteousness with unrighteousness? and what communion hath light with darkness? And what concord hath Christ with Belial? or what part hath he that believeth with an infidel? And what agreement hath the temple of God with idols? for ye are the temple of the living God; as God hath said, I will dwell in them, and walk in them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. Wherefore come out from among them, and be ye separate, saith the Lord, and touch not the unclean thing; and I will receive you, And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty. Having therefore these promises, dearly beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit, perfecting holiness in the fear of God.""

--Again that passage seems to correspond to my theory more than the theory that willful sin can be forgiven, though I know that last bit could be stretched to seem as if it were a long ongoing process that 'could' 'maybe' include willful sin, though that really doesn't seem to make much contextual sense at all. Believe me I know, I don't want to believe it either, but I will need a MUCH better argument than any I have yet seen to feel truly sure that such is the case.

Anyway I appreciate your attempt, which though I see it as having little to no presented true doctrinal justification for the position that willful sin can be forgiven, it is still a little more reasonable than most theories I have seen and as I say, you didn't try to tear me down for my lack of false modesty. I wish you the best and I dearly hope that somehow in truth we willful sinners really can and will be forgiven, and as I said in my first response we must all keep trying with all our hearts either way.

 

[Scripturalaccuracy]

Animal sacrifice is the primary context of Hebrews 10. Indeed most of the entire book of Hebrews, when talking about sacrifice! It isn't out of context. The Lord's sacrifice is part of it also.. but not the subject of 10:26 in Hebrews.

It's like you are either getting that idea from someone else or you don't comprehend the text of Hebrews 10, which is only about animals sacrifice as much as to say it is useless and CHRIST IS THE REAL SACRIFICE and that we better not take it likely or treat it as a cheap thing that we can repeatedly aquire.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

@Scripturalaccuracy

"Less hateful than most?"

There was nothing the least bit hateful in what I said.

I do not have a lot of time now because I am at work, but I will go back later and reread what I said because there is definitely a huge disconnect in my intent and what you apparently think I said.

For now, I will just plainly say that in no way would I ever seek to condone willful sin or to minimize its serious consequences.

 

[George71]

Does anyone have any scriptures that will help this individual (or any individual faced with temptation) to battle their temptation(s)?

 

[Scripturalaccuracy]

First of all,

I just want to say that I am aware the reply I just left you before this one was poorly written and didn't include many other scriptural facets to potentially view this subject from, but I am really quite physically ill at the moment and just lack the strength to sit and type for long. Maybe at a later date if you want we can discuss the idea that Hebrews might have to do with choosing to forfeit the faith somewhat and how that would effect the overall message, which in my eyes still doesn't seem to allow for willful sin, but I am well aware there are still things I still don't understand in the Scripture, and as I say, I am dearly hoping you are right, but I will just need much more clear and certain doctrinal proof to give it much hope, but I am willing to dig for that proof with anyone who is rational and patient enough to do it realistically. Again, best to you.

 

[Scripturalaccuracy]

@Scripturalaccuracy

"Less hateful than most?"

There was nothing the least bit hateful in what I said.

I do not have a lot of time now because I am at work, but I will go back later and reread what I said because there is definitely a huge disconnect in my intent and what you apparently think I said.

For now, I will just plainly say that in no way would I ever seek to condone willful sin or to minimize its serious consequences.

That's what i meant, most people give me a LOT of hate for saying what I said, I was saying you weren't hateful, but perhaps my wording was confusing. i am not in my best form right now.

And there was no disconnect, I just don't see the passages you presented as having more than the slightest possible shreds of evidence that willful sin can be forgiven. Best to you, and take your time, I don't have the energy to do any forced marches and nor do I want anyone to have to do any for me.

 

[JohnDB]

Yeahoooo
Another zombie thread brought back to life.

 

[wattie]

It's like you are either getting that idea from someone else or you don't comprehend the text of Hebrews 10, which is only about animals sacrifice as much as to say it is useless and CHRIST IS THE REAL SACRIFICE and that we better not take it likely or treat it as a cheap thing that we can repeatedly aquire.

Hebrews 10:18 is about animal offering for sins.. 10:26 follows the same line of context

 

[rogerg]

So today i masturbated after being set free months ago and i know if i fought harder i could have overcome them these past 2 days i started getting sexual temptations in my mind and didnt want to sin but wanted the thoughts sometimes and probably willingly as well thought some of them and i knew it was a sin and i shouldnt do it and felt bad before i did it and i also struggle with weak faith and unbelief so yeah im just a case for nothing any help would be apperciated

Christ paid in full for ALL of the sins (not some) of those He chose to salvation. That being true (and it is), then the only eternal sin that God will punish is that of sin of not trusting in His Son, Jesus Christ, as Saviour, and all that implies, instead of trying to justify oneself before God by one's works and not by Christ's. I am not saying that it is good to indulge yourself in the sins of the flesh nor of anything not Christ or God glorifying, but neither will those deny you salvation. By your guilt, it seems evident that God is beginning to move you away from that particular earthly sin. He will continue to teach/punish you with greater and greater frequency, intensity and unpleasantness (besides your guilt), until you find it better to stop - and God knows exactly what you dislike far better than you do - He will not hesitate to go to it over and over again until you get the message. For example, look at the sins of the flesh which king David partook in, yet he remained saved throughout.

[Heb 7:25 KJV] 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

[Heb 12:6-8 KJV]
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

 

[wattie]

Christ paid in full for ALL of the sins (not some) of those He chose to salvation. That being true (and it is), then the only eternal sin that God will punish is that of sin of not trusting in His Son, Jesus Christ, as Saviour, and all that implies, instead of trying to justify oneself before God by one's works and not by Christ's. I am not saying that it is good to indulge yourself in the sins of the flesh nor of anything not Christ or God glorifying, but neither will those deny you salvation. By your guilt, it seems evident that God is beginning to move you away from that particular earthly sin. He will continue to teach/punish you with greater and greater frequency, intensity and unpleasantness (besides your guilt), until you find it better to stop - and God knows exactly what you dislike far better than you do - He will not hesitate to go to it over and over again until you get the message. For example, look at the sins of the flesh which king David partook in, yet he remained saved throughout.

[Heb 7:25 KJV] 25 Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them.

[Heb 12:6-8 KJV]
6 For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth.
7 If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not?
8 But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons.

Yes God will chasten the believer who gets into sin..as a loving Father does. But also as a loving Father does..they do not leave when their child is naughty

 

[rogerg]

That's what i meant, most people give me a LOT of hate for saying what I said, I was saying you weren't hateful, but perhaps my wording was confusing. i am not in my best form right now.

And there was no disconnect, I just don't see the passages you presented as having more than the slightest possible shreds of evidence that willful sin can be forgiven. Best to you, and take your time, I don't have the energy to do any forced marches and nor do I want anyone to have to do any for me.

Perhaps you don't realize what sin actually is because you don't realize what the eternal law that sin violates is. You might try to analyze it from this perspective: Should you believe as most true Christians do in the most fundamental tenet of Christianity - that Christ alone is the solution to and the remediation of sin, what then do you think must be the antithesis to Christ?
When you answer that question, you will understand true sin. Those saved cannot willfully commit that sin because
God will not allow them to.

 

[rogerg]

Yes God will chasten the believer who gets into sin..as a loving Father does. But also as a loving Father does..they do not leave when their child is naughty

I don't think so either because I believe OSAS true.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

That's what i meant, most people give me a LOT of hate for saying what I said, I was saying you weren't hateful, but perhaps my wording was confusing. i am not in my best form right now.

Believe me, I hear you, and I know exactly what you are talking about. I normally spend all of my days giving the same type of exhortation that you gave here, and people, whether they profess to be saved already or not, either do not want to hear it, or they seek to take my head off. Someone asked me the other day why I came to this forum, and I told them to possibly make some new friends. Although that is true, in hindsight, it is definitely not the primary reason why I came here. Normally, as in daily, I am in real spiritual conflict, and I admittedly got a little battle weary, and I was kind of looking for a place to duck my head and rest for a bit. Since being here, I have wasted some time in folly, which is nobody's fault but my own, and your post served as a sort of cold slap to knock me out of my momentary stupor or to awaken me from my temporary nap. I even changed my avatar to something more appropriate for a normally sober-minded Christian. I sincerely thank you for that. If nothing else good comes from your post, then it did have a positive effect on me, so your labor here was not in vain.

And there was no disconnect, I just don't see the passages you presented as having more than the slightest possible shreds of evidence that willful sin can be forgiven.

I am admittedly still a bit battle weary, so I will not go into too much detail right now. I will just ask you to consider this from the same epistle to the Hebrews:

Hebrews 6:1-6

"Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit. For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

Here, the writer spoke of moving on unto perfection, if God would permit it. It seems to me that the deciding factor here as to whether or not God would permit it was whether or not they fell away. Falling away seems to me like more than just a "one and done" sin. Those who have fallen away cannot be renewed to repentance, but it seems as if those who have not fallen away can be renewed to the same. If I am correct, and I believe that I am, then the question the sinner should be asking himself or herself is "Do I still have godly sorrow which works repentance unto salvation?" If they do, then that would seem to indicate to me that God is still striving with them by his Spirit, and he is still permitting or still giving them a chance to repent. Basically, they have not yet been given over to a reprobate mind. Just to be clear, I am not advocating some sort of "Well, I will just sin and then repent" mentality. Instead, I am suggesting that if we falter momentarily, and God is still striving with us to repent, then we still have hope.

Best to you, and take your time, I don't have the energy to do any forced marches and nor do I want anyone to have to do any for me.

Best to you as well. If you are in need of prayer for whatever is ailing you, then please do not hesitate to ask. Thanks again for bringing this topic out into the open. I, for one, needed to be reminded of it.

 

[rogerg]

Here, the writer spoke of moving on unto perfection, if God would permit it. It seems to me that the deciding factor here as to whether or not God would permit it was whether or not they fell away. Falling away seems to me like more than just a "one and done" sin. Those who have fallen away cannot be renewed to repentance, but it seems as if those who have not fallen away can be renewed to the same. If I am correct, and I believe that I am, then the question the sinner should be asking himself or herself is "Do I still have godly sorrow which works repentance unto salvation?" If they do, then that would seem to indicate to me that God is still striving with them by his Spirit, and he is still permitting or still giving them a chance to repent. Basically, they have not yet been given over to a reprobate mind. Just to be clear, I am not advocating some sort of "Well, I will just sin and then repent" mentality. Instead, I am suggesting that if we falter momentarily, and God is still striving with us to repent, then we still have hope.

If you don't mind me interjecting, I believe the perfection spoken of (in verses you site), is not spiritual perfection (hopefully I didn't misunderstand you, and if I did, sorry), but rather perfection or completeness relative to the knowledge of the gospel of Christ in doctrine. I think this perspective can be seen in/by the "not laying again the foundation from dead works, and of faith towards God". By Paul using "foundation from', I think he is telling us that doctrine is in view. I further think it is reinforced by verse 6:9, where we are informed they already had become saved, and therefore, the things which accompany salvation would not allow them to fall-away from it.
Sorry for the interruption.


[Heb 6:1 KJV] 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

[Heb 6:9 KJV] 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

If you don't mind me interjecting, I believe the perfection spoken of (in verses you site), is not spiritual perfection (hopefully I didn't misunderstand you, and if I did, sorry), but rather perfection or completeness relative to the knowledge of the gospel of Christ in doctrine. I think this perspective can be seen in/by the "not laying again the foundation from dead works, and of faith towards God". By Paul using "foundation from', I think he is telling us that doctrine is in view. I further think it is reinforced by verse 6:9, where we are informed they already had become saved, and therefore, the things which accompany salvation would not allow them to fall-away from it.
Sorry for the interruption.


[Heb 6:1 KJV] 1 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

[Heb 6:9 KJV] 9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

There is no need for you to apologize, but I appreciate the humble approach.

As far as the "perfection" is concerned, personally, I believe that the writer had both types of perfection in mind.

To your point, he had just finished saying the following in relation to Melchizedek:

Hebrews 5:11-14

"Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil."

Their inability to be teachers certainly seemed to be directly related to them being dull of hearing where doctrine was concerned.

However, at the same time, the writer did directly relate this to them not having their senses exercised to discern both good and evil because of their failures associated with "reason of use". In other words, the doctrine had a "use" or a purpose attached to it, and that use or purpose, I believe, is perfectly described for us elsewhere in the Bible.

For example:

2 Timothy 3:16-17

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works."

Here we see that doctrine is one contributing factor in a man of God being made perfect or mature while being furnished unto all good works.

Hopefully, you see the correlation between the two.

As far as their salvation is concerned, he was definitely writing to believers, but the epistle is loaded with warnings about not falling away. Why the need for all of the warnings if a believer cannot fall away? I do not believe in or adhere to the doctrine of "OSAS" at all. Not only because of what we read in the epistle to the Hebrews, but because of what we read in the entirety of scripture on the matter.

 

[timemeddler]

your fine, the description after is rather telling, trampling under the son of god and profaning, is not describing someone who has simply screwed up.

 

[rogerg]

As far as their salvation is concerned, he was definitely writing to believers, but the epistle is loaded with warnings about not falling away. Why the need for all of the warnings if a believer cannot fall away? I do not believe in or adhere to the doctrine of "OSAS" at all. Not only because of what we read in the epistle to the Hebrews, but because of what we read in the entirety of scripture on the matter.

Not to start a whole debate about OSAS but I would just reemphasize 6:9. As I understand it, it is saying that those saved (which those of that verse were) could not fall away because of that which we are told accompanies salvation, hence, the "persuaded better things of you' being included. I would also throw out 1 Peter 1:5 - those saved cannot fall away because they are kept by the power of God.

[1Pe 1:5 KJV] 5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Anyway, the interesting thing to me about biblical warnings are not the warnings themselves but of who will adhere to them, who won't, and why. Those saved do so from, and because of, having been saved - warnings regarding loss of salvation do not threaten them because they already have been saved by Christ (not of themselves), but they do their best to follow them because they understand their purpose and what they represent. Otherwise, for the unsaved, they would leverage their salvation, or attempt to obtain salvation (as they understand salvation to be), via a quid pro quo by their actions - their work - but not a salvation from God's mercy and grace.