question: Can an unsaved person be baptized in the Holy Spirit?
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Yes
As I read the story in Acts 10. At the start, Cornelius is described as a devout/God fearing gentile, generous to the needy and a man of prayer. He has a vision of an angel who acknowledges that his prayers and gifts to the poor have been noticed by God. So Cornelius is a person who seeks God but is without knowledge concerning Jesus and the Way. The angel directs him to contact Peter. So he does.
The next day Peter while praying also has a vision of a large sheet like object containing four-footed animals, birds and reptiles. The vision is accompanied by a voice telling Peter to get up, kill and eat. Peter identifies the voice as the Lord's and recognizing the animals/bird/reptiles as impure/unclean protests eating them. The response from the voice is, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean".
So the delegation comes from Cornelius asking Peter to go with them to Cornelius. Next day Peter and some believers from Joppa go. Once there Peter explains that as a Jew he really shouldn't be there but God had had shown him that he should not call anyone impure or unclean (not exactly what the voice had said but that was Peter's take on it at that point). Peter asks why he had been sent for and Cornelius describes his vision. Peter begins to speak (preach?) about Jesus, his death/resurrection, His command to his followers to preach/testify that Jesus is the one appointed by God to judge living/dead. Peter ends by stating that all the prophets testify that everyone who believes in him (Jesus) receives forgiveness of sins through his name. In short Peter preaches the Gospel. Before Peter can finish Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message even the Gentiles, who speak in tongues and praise God.
Peter than says surely no one can stand in the way of the gentiles being baptized in water, in the name of Jesus. And Peter orders that the gentiles be so baptized.
While Peter's order is true to the pattern (i.e. water baptism) used by John the Baptist, and continued by Jesus disciples for the Jewish nation (although not by Jesus see John 4:1-2). Is he being true to the direct command in the vision of Acts 10:11-16 not to call anything impure that God has made clean?
As I read the story in Acts 10. At the start, Cornelius is described as a devout/God fearing gentile, generous to the needy and a man of prayer. He has a vision of an angel who acknowledges that his prayers and gifts to the poor have been noticed by God. So Cornelius is a person who seeks God but is without knowledge concerning Jesus and the Way. The angel directs him to contact Peter. So he does.
The next day Peter while praying also has a vision of a large sheet like object containing four-footed animals, birds and reptiles. The vision is accompanied by a voice telling Peter to get up, kill and eat. Peter identifies the voice as the Lord's and recognizing the animals/bird/reptiles as impure/unclean protests eating them. The response from the voice is, "Do not call anything impure that God has made clean".
So the delegation comes from Cornelius asking Peter to go with them to Cornelius. Next day Peter and some believers from Joppa go. Once there Peter explains that as a Jew he really shouldn't be there but God had had shown him that he should not call anyone impure or unclean (not exactly what the voice had said but that was Peter's take on it at that point). Peter asks why he had been sent for and Cornelius describes his vision. Peter begins to speak (preach?) about Jesus, his death/resurrection, His command to his followers to preach/testify that Jesus is the one appointed by God to judge living/dead. Peter ends by stating that all the prophets testify that everyone who believes in him (Jesus) receives forgiveness of sins through his name. In short Peter preaches the Gospel. Before Peter can finish Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message even the Gentiles, who speak in tongues and praise God.
Peter than says surely no one can stand in the way of the gentiles being baptized in water, in the name of Jesus. And Peter orders that the gentiles be so baptized.
While Peter's order is true to the pattern (i.e. water baptism) used by John the Baptist, and continued by Jesus disciples for the Jewish nation (although not by Jesus see John 4:1-2). Is he being true to the direct command in the vision of Acts 10:11-16 not to call anything impure that God has made clean?
Matthew 3:11
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Romans 6:3-4
Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4. Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Colossians 2:12
buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
Your not saved until this baptism takes place. and only God can do this baptism.
I indeed baptize you with water unto repentance, but He who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry. He will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and fire.
Romans 6:3-4
Or do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
4. Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
1 Corinthians 12:13
For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body—whether Jews or Greeks, whether slaves or free—and have all been made to drink into one Spirit.
Galatians 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
Colossians 2:12
buried with Him in baptism, in which you also were raised with Him through faith in the working of God, who raised Him from the dead.
Your not saved until this baptism takes place. and only God can do this baptism.
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This simply is not true. If it is true, then Peter is a liar because he said:
Acts 10:34-38
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all) That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."
Why wouldn't he be true to it? God, in his foreknowledge, or because he foreknew how Cornelius and those assembled together with him would respond to Peter's gospel presentation, referred to these specific Gentiles to whom Peter was being sent as being "clean". God confirmed it by having the Holy Ghost fall upon them as they apparently believed what Peter was telling them, and then Peter water baptized them. Normally, water baptism would precede any type of Holy Ghost baptism, but you need to understand that Peter and other Jews at that time thought that salvation was only for the Jews. God corrected their theology in this special incident by putting his outward seal upon them first or before they were water baptized. Had they not had the Holy Ghost fall upon them first, then Peter might have forbidden them water baptism, and this is implied by Peter's statement:
Acts 10:47-48
"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
Notice the words "can any man forbid water?" In other words, the implication is that God was not only correcting Peter's theology, but also the theology of the other Jews who were assembled there with him.
Read Acts chapter 11. Peter initially got grilled for being with these Gentiles when he returned to Jerusalem, so God was also correcting the theology of those Jews as well.
Furthermore, even after this incident, Paul had to rebuke Peter to his face at Antioch because Peter was still incorrectly making a distinction between Jews and Gentiles, and that is after God had previously shown him the vision that you mentioned thrice.
Anyway, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that Cornelius and those assembled with him were unsaved when the Holy Ghost fell upon them. Apparently, they believed Peter's message before the Holy Ghost fell upon them, and God simply reversed the normal order of water baptism followed by Holy Ghost baptism because of the special circumstances surrounding this one incident.
Acts 10:34-38
"Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons: But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him. The word which God sent unto the children of Israel, preaching peace by Jesus Christ: (he is Lord of all) That word, I say, ye know, which was published throughout all Judaea, and began from Galilee, after the baptism which John preached; How God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Ghost and with power: who went about doing good, and healing all that were oppressed of the devil; for God was with him."
Why wouldn't he be true to it? God, in his foreknowledge, or because he foreknew how Cornelius and those assembled together with him would respond to Peter's gospel presentation, referred to these specific Gentiles to whom Peter was being sent as being "clean". God confirmed it by having the Holy Ghost fall upon them as they apparently believed what Peter was telling them, and then Peter water baptized them. Normally, water baptism would precede any type of Holy Ghost baptism, but you need to understand that Peter and other Jews at that time thought that salvation was only for the Jews. God corrected their theology in this special incident by putting his outward seal upon them first or before they were water baptized. Had they not had the Holy Ghost fall upon them first, then Peter might have forbidden them water baptism, and this is implied by Peter's statement:
Acts 10:47-48
"Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we? And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days."
Notice the words "can any man forbid water?" In other words, the implication is that God was not only correcting Peter's theology, but also the theology of the other Jews who were assembled there with him.
Read Acts chapter 11. Peter initially got grilled for being with these Gentiles when he returned to Jerusalem, so God was also correcting the theology of those Jews as well.
Furthermore, even after this incident, Paul had to rebuke Peter to his face at Antioch because Peter was still incorrectly making a distinction between Jews and Gentiles, and that is after God had previously shown him the vision that you mentioned thrice.
Anyway, there is no reason whatsoever to believe that Cornelius and those assembled with him were unsaved when the Holy Ghost fell upon them. Apparently, they believed Peter's message before the Holy Ghost fell upon them, and God simply reversed the normal order of water baptism followed by Holy Ghost baptism because of the special circumstances surrounding this one incident.
I have explained this to you so many times I lost count
Paul did not tell everyone to be baptized.. He only told a select group to be baptized.
That group is the group who recieved remission of sin.
if you are unwilling to look deeper. and are just going to take a translation at face value, thats on you. not me
Paul did not tell everyone to be baptized.. He only told a select group to be baptized.
That group is the group who recieved remission of sin.
if you are unwilling to look deeper. and are just going to take a translation at face value, thats on you. not me
Here is something else that you might want to seriously consider:
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
"Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."
During their exodus from Egypt, the Israelites, in type, were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. Notice that the cloud preceded the water, and this is easily verified in this account which preceded the parting of the Red Sea:
Exodus 13:21-22
"And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people."
In type, this pillar of a cloud and pillar of fire represent one being baptized with the Holy Ghost and with fire, and, again, it preceded the parting of the Red Sea which typifies water baptism. Of course, the eating of the Passover lamb, which typifies our salvation through faith in Christ, preceded both of these baptisms, and that is what is of utmost importance.
In my estimation, God has always desired that every believer in Jesus be both water and Holy Ghost baptized, and the specific order of those two baptisms need not be etched in stone as long as they are both preceded by saving faith in Christ.
1 Corinthians 10:1-4
"Moreover, brethren, I would not that ye should be ignorant, how that all our fathers were under the cloud, and all passed through the sea; And were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea; And did all eat the same spiritual meat; And did all drink the same spiritual drink: for they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ."
During their exodus from Egypt, the Israelites, in type, were all baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea. Notice that the cloud preceded the water, and this is easily verified in this account which preceded the parting of the Red Sea:
Exodus 13:21-22
"And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light; to go by day and night: He took not away the pillar of the cloud by day, nor the pillar of fire by night, from before the people."
In type, this pillar of a cloud and pillar of fire represent one being baptized with the Holy Ghost and with fire, and, again, it preceded the parting of the Red Sea which typifies water baptism. Of course, the eating of the Passover lamb, which typifies our salvation through faith in Christ, preceded both of these baptisms, and that is what is of utmost importance.
In my estimation, God has always desired that every believer in Jesus be both water and Holy Ghost baptized, and the specific order of those two baptisms need not be etched in stone as long as they are both preceded by saving faith in Christ.
FAIL
You have totally ignored Christ's death on the cross and replaced with a formula for 'works' of righteousness
It really does not matter how much scripture you reference if you make the sort of error that you are making
You must receive God's redemption salvation through Christ by faith. There is no other way. You have not shown that being filled with the Holy Spirit saves. In fact, NO ONE is saved without believing in Jesus. Being filled comes after salvation
When God makes a promise He keeps it. So if we ask Him for the holy Spirit He will give us the holy Spirit. Now there are those that love Jesus yet believe those tongue talking Christians also have a false spirit. If that was true then the holy bible is un-true. That being said if a sinner, unrighteous tries to ask...they will get a false Spirit. For that gift of the holy Spirit is a promise only to believers.
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Water baptism is obedience to God. We are saved when we believe and should be baptized right away. Most churches don't emphasize baptism. You must be baptized after salvation. Too many times people don't confess publicly what they prayed and it dies. Without works faith is dead. We must be willing to profess our faith.
Your question makes no sense for two reasons.
1. Baptism of the Spirit WAS something that occurred in biblical times and for distinct reasons, if you're referring to the miraculous manifestation of the Spirit as occurred on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 wherein the Spirit fell on the apostles and they spoke in other tongues.
2. The miraculous manifestations of the Spirit no longer are present, namely, those "gifts" as they are commonly referred to, listed in 1Cor 12:8-10. They were made manifest by the laying on of the apostle's hands as confirmed by such verses as Acts 5:12, Acts 6:6-8, Acts 8:9-19, Acts 19:6, and 2 Tim 1:6.
We all that believe and are baptized receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, the indwelling of the Spirit, according to Acts 2:38, but that is not the same as manifestation of the Spirit.
1. Baptism of the Spirit WAS something that occurred in biblical times and for distinct reasons, if you're referring to the miraculous manifestation of the Spirit as occurred on the day of Pentecost in Acts 2 wherein the Spirit fell on the apostles and they spoke in other tongues.
2. The miraculous manifestations of the Spirit no longer are present, namely, those "gifts" as they are commonly referred to, listed in 1Cor 12:8-10. They were made manifest by the laying on of the apostle's hands as confirmed by such verses as Acts 5:12, Acts 6:6-8, Acts 8:9-19, Acts 19:6, and 2 Tim 1:6.
We all that believe and are baptized receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, the indwelling of the Spirit, according to Acts 2:38, but that is not the same as manifestation of the Spirit.
If I may,
Neither water baptism or any works will save anyone. Baptism is an outward showing of what has already supposed to have taken place in the heart.
The apostles warned those that professed to be in Christ to hold fast to their faith. Many people were baptized and then fell away.
1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."
So, my answer to the question is yes, even the unsaved can be baptized by water.
But, only those with true faith are saved by the grace of God and water baptism has nothing to do with gaining salvation.
Neither water baptism or any works will save anyone. Baptism is an outward showing of what has already supposed to have taken place in the heart.
The apostles warned those that professed to be in Christ to hold fast to their faith. Many people were baptized and then fell away.
1 John 2:19
"They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us."
So, my answer to the question is yes, even the unsaved can be baptized by water.
But, only those with true faith are saved by the grace of God and water baptism has nothing to do with gaining salvation.
Peter says baptism saved us. 1 Peter 3:21, so, you're not correct. Also, nowhere in the bible does it describe baptism nor its reason as you have. It is an outward expression of nothing, but rather a command that must be obeyed in order to secure our salvation. The Ethiopian eunuch was with Philip in the middle of nowhere when he was baptized and in the audience of no one other than Philip. Furthermore, Philip's preaching of the gospel to him obviously included the need for baptism, hence the eunuch's question to him regarding water and baptism. Baptism us not a work of anything or any law.