I was just in a Christian chat room (not here)

[ResidentAlien]

I admit I can't find it specifically said anywhere that Peter is the head apostle in the bible, they're only reasoning from the bible was the verse I stated in my last post to you and the apostle Paul.

I look at it like this. Since there's nothing whatsoever in the whole New Testament that demonstrates that anyone saw or treated Peter like the "lead apostle," we have to consider other interpretations of Jesus' words to Peter.

1) Peter gave the first Christian sermon in Acts 2, resulting in three thousand people turning to Christ. This is one possible interpretation. 2) Peter played a pivotal role in the early church; not the leading role, but an important one. 3) Jesus may have been referring to Peter's confession: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." This may be the "rock" upon which Christ built His church.

So there are other possibilities, and better ones in my opinion. The idea that Peter was the lead apostle and his succession has been handed down continually to the present day is ridiculous. Even Roman Catholics are hypocritical in this. The scriptures call Peter and apostle. But Catholics call them popes (holy father) in direct opposition to Jesus' command not to call anyone on earth father.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Oh, so why don't Orthodox Christians call themselves Orthodox Catholics then?

The Catholic Church is a derivative of the Orthodox Church. It was the Greek Orthodox Church which first came into existence since the majority of churches in the Roman empire were Greek-speaking. Then there was a split and the Catholic Church became "the Western" Church and the Orthodox Church became "the Eastern Church".

However, there is no need to be confused. If you have your Bible (preferably the KJB) and you seek to know the truth, you can go to God directly and ask Him to show you the truth. Start with the Gospel of John. But He expects you to make a diligent effort to get to know the Gospel. He expects "workmen" (laborers) to search out His Word, and that does take effort and dedication. He expects you to love His truth above any man-made ideas (no matter how strange it may sound). How do you explain Christ as "the Bread of Life"?

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Thank you, you've cleared some confusion up in my mind, so would you say somethings get lost in translation then which would probably end up with a lot of Christians being confused on what church actually means and over complicating it (basically like I've done lol). The video you linked isn't available in my country from some reason but I will try and find another version God willing, seems William was truly led by the holy spirit and I feel he could help me also in my faith.

You are welcome, and, yes, I would definitely say that things often get lost in translation. I will give you another example of that in a moment which I believe may assist you greatly in your quest for the truth.

I am currently using an App called Soultime it has Christian meditations along with bible reading, my attention span is kind of lacking (I'm on the autism spectrum so that's mostly why) so I need a plan set out that I can stick to it in terms of bible reading otherwise I feel too overwhelmed to even begin and I understand how important reading scripture is as a Christian but not only reading but fully absorbing and understanding it.

Here is another example of how something very important can easily get lost in translation.

John 14:16

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

John 14:26

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 15:26

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

John 16:7

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter G3875 will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

In these verses, Jesus referred to "the Holy Ghost", or "the Spirit of truth", as "the Comforter". In the Greek, the word that was translated into English as "Comforter" is paraklētos, and it means someone who is called to one's side in order to assist them.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g3875/kjv/tr/0-1/

In fact, other Bible translations translate paraklētos into English as "advocate", "helper", or "counselor". Here is an example of what I am saying from the first verse that I cited in John 14:16.

https://biblehub.com/john/14-16.htm

The reason why I believe that the proper understanding of this word's actual meaning might greatly assist you in your quest for truth is because God has not left you "comfortless", or without an "advocate", or without a "helper", or without a "counselor" in your quest for truth. In other words, God never intended for any of us to rely solely upon our own human intellects or our own memory retention skills where truth is concerned. Instead, he has always fully intended for us to rely upon the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit, who, again, is called "the Spirit of truth" and "the Spirit of Christ" in scripture, to not only teach us all things, but also to bring all things back to our remembrances, so being on the autism spectrum need not discourage you. Help is available, at your asking, and it is available through the Holy Spirit who dwells inside of you as a Christian.

Do you understand what I am saying?

If you do, then simply shift your focus away from your own mental faculties to the never-failing faculties of the Holy Spirit, and you will be just fine. He is the one who inspired the writing of the scriptures, and he is the one who knows exactly what they mean, and he is available to you, 24/7.

The main reason I was looking for a church so early on in my walk with Jesus is that I wanted a community i could gather with in person to hold me accountable and keep me steady on my walk with Jesus as I know I'm a doubtful person which can be difficult to manoeuvre sometimes.

There is nothing wrong with desiring a community or assembly of other believers to fellowship with and to hold yourself accountable to. Again, the "church" is likened to a body throughout scripture, and each member needs other members as well or else the body would be greatly disabled. However, at the same time, we must not make the terrible mistake of forgetting the head, or Christ himself, in our quest for fellowship with others. In other words, just because a group of people congregates or assembles together under the name of Christ, this does not necessarily mean that Christ is truly their head. We can only know if Christ is truly the head of any congregation if we know Christ himself, and that is going to come about by reading and understanding God's word with the Divine assistance of the Holy Spirit. I hope that this makes sense and that I am not unintentionally adding to any prior confusion.

 

[notmyown]

Jesus may have been referring to Peter's confession: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." This may be the "rock" upon which Christ built His church.

i believe the confession of who Christ is, is indeed "the rock", especially given the difference in the Greek words.

And I tell you, you are Peter (Petros= small stone), and on this rock (petra= cliff or boulder) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Mt 16:18)

it's the confession of all God's people.

 

[ResidentAlien]

i believe the confession of who Christ is, is indeed "the rock", especially given the difference in the Greek words.

And I tell you, you are Peter (Petros= small stone), and on this rock (petra= cliff or boulder) I will build my church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. (Mt 16:18)

it's the confession of all God's people.

Yes, that's an excellent point. Thanks for bringing it up.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

These orthodox Christians said that the orthodox church is the only true church, the right one basically now whilst I have been looking into orthodoxy there's stuff about it I don't believe in but according to them, everything the orthodox church does is in the bible and following sola Scriptura is unbiblical as it was the early church who complied the bible. what do you guys think about this?

The early church did compile the Bible at the council of Nicea.
Sola scriptura means that all doctrine is derived from scripture.
If they claim that all the things they do is in the Bible then they are following Sola scriptura.
A couple things about people on the internet and in forums is that often times they dont know what they are talking about. While some are good and do their best others are not so much.
What orothodox church are you interested in? And what are the things that you disagree with?

 

[Locoponydirtman]

I recomend a good conservative Lutheran church. I dont know where you are located but Lutherans are pretty much everywhere.
There are those who claim to be lutheran but they are not; tthe elca is not even christian much less Lutheran.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

The early church did compile the Bible at the council of Nicea.

https://textandcanon.org/the-counci...nd the Canon in,canon before and after Nicaea.

 

[ResidentAlien]

Just because someone says all their doctrine is derived from scripture you can't take this on face value. You have read the doctrine and compare it to scripture and decide for yourself. There are many, many groups out there, all saying they only believe the Bible but end up with totally different ideas about what the Bible says. Can they all be right?

 

[posthuman]

The early church did compile the Bible at the council of Nicea.

No, they did not. that's a myth.

The canon had already been generally agreed on for a hundred years, and the Nicene council didn't debate it.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

The video you linked isn't available in my country from some reason but I will try and find another version God willing, seems William was truly led by the holy spirit and I feel he could help me also in my faith.

Maybe this link will work in your country:

 

[Tanaya]

I look at it like this. Since there's nothing whatsoever in the whole New Testament that demonstrates that anyone saw or treated Peter like the "lead apostle," we have to consider other interpretations of Jesus' words to Peter.

1) Peter gave the first Christian sermon in Acts 2, resulting in three thousand people turning to Christ. This is one possible interpretation. 2) Peter played a pivotal role in the early church; not the leading role, but an important one. 3) Jesus may have been referring to Peter's confession: "You are the Christ, the Son of the living God." This may be the "rock" upon which Christ built His church.

So there are other possibilities, and better ones in my opinion. The idea that Peter was the lead apostle and his succession has been handed down continually to the present day is ridiculous. Even Roman Catholics are hypocritical in this. The scriptures call Peter and apostle. But Catholics call them popes (holy father) in direct opposition to Jesus' command not to call anyone on earth father.

I understand thank you, it has hard when we get into these doctrines that seem differ so much from what Jesus meant, I can understand why some have interpreted some things in the bible to Jesus appointing special apostles (maybe not the right to put it) which in turns has led to popes etc.

 

[Tanaya]

Maybe this link will work in your country:

Thank you it does! God bless

 

[Tanaya]

The early church did compile the Bible at the council of Nicea.
Sola scriptura means that all doctrine is derived from scripture.
If they claim that all the things they do is in the Bible then they are following Sola scriptura.
A couple things about people on the internet and in forums is that often times they dont know what they are talking about. While some are good and do their best others are not so much.
What orothodox church are you interested in? And what are the things that you disagree with?

It's a greek orthodox church
The Greek Orthodox Church of the Virgin Mary Eleousa it's name.

I don't know if I agree with the glamour of it all (hope that makes sense) and veneration of icons, I'm not too strict on pictures in religious places but I don't feel like I need to venerate them in any way as I have a pretty vivid imagination myself so if I meditate on Jesus I can bring up an image of him pretty easily without needing the icons and venerating etc. and I also don't imagery to feel Gods spirit sometimes it images can be too distracting for me.

 

[Tanaya]

You are welcome, and, yes, I would definitely say that things often get lost in translation. I will give you another example of that in a moment which I believe may assist you greatly in your quest for the truth.
Here is another example of how something very important can easily get lost in translation.

John 14:16

"And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;"

John 14:26

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you."

John 15:26

"But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:"

John 16:7

"Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter G3875 will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you."

In these verses, Jesus referred to "the Holy Ghost", or "the Spirit of truth", as "the Comforter". In the Greek, the word that was translated into English as "Comforter" is paraklētos, and it means someone who is called to one's side in order to assist them.

https://www.blueletterbible.org/lexicon/g3875/kjv/tr/0-1/

In fact, other Bible translations translate paraklētos into English as "advocate", "helper", or "counselor". Here is an example of what I am saying from the first verse that I cited in John 14:16.

https://biblehub.com/john/14-16.htm

The reason why I believe that the proper understanding of this word's actual meaning might greatly assist you in your quest for truth is because God has not left you "comfortless", or without an "advocate", or without a "helper", or without a "counselor" in your quest for truth. In other words, God never intended for any of us to rely solely upon our own human intellects or our own memory retention skills where truth is concerned. Instead, he has always fully intended for us to rely upon the Holy Ghost or Holy Spirit, who, again, is called "the Spirit of truth" and "the Spirit of Christ" in scripture, to not only teach us all things, but also to bring all things back to our remembrances, so being on the autism spectrum need not discourage you. Help is available, at your asking, and it is available through the Holy Spirit who dwells inside of you as a Christian.

Do you understand what I am saying?

If you do, then simply shift your focus away from your own mental faculties to the never-failing faculties of the Holy Spirit, and you will be just fine. He is the one who inspired the writing of the scriptures, and he is the one who knows exactly what they mean, and he is available to you, 24/7.
There is nothing wrong with desiring a community or assembly of other believers to fellowship with and to hold yourself accountable to. Again, the "church" is likened to a body throughout scripture, and each member needs other members as well or else the body would be greatly disabled. However, at the same time, we must not make the terrible mistake of forgetting the head, or Christ himself, in our quest for fellowship with others. In other words, just because a group of people congregates or assembles together under the name of Christ, this does not necessarily mean that Christ is truly their head. We can only know if Christ is truly the head of any congregation if we know Christ himself, and that is going to come about by reading and understanding God's word with the Divine assistance of the Holy Spirit. I hope that this makes sense and that I am not unintentionally adding to any prior confusion.

You aren't at all adding to any confusion if anything you're clearing it for me, I've made a conscious effort to read more of the scripture and asking the Holy spirit to guide me and I think right now its telling me I'm loosing sight of what matters which is Jesus a relationship with God Himself and like you said reading the word would help massively with that.

 

[Tanaya]

The Catholic Church is a derivative of the Orthodox Church. It was the Greek Orthodox Church which first came into existence since the majority of churches in the Roman empire were Greek-speaking. Then there was a split and the Catholic Church became "the Western" Church and the Orthodox Church became "the Eastern Church".

However, there is no need to be confused. If you have your Bible (preferably the KJB) and you seek to know the truth, you can go to God directly and ask Him to show you the truth. Start with the Gospel of John. But He expects you to make a diligent effort to get to know the Gospel. He expects "workmen" (laborers) to search out His Word, and that does take effort and dedication. He expects you to love His truth above any man-made ideas (no matter how strange it may sound). How do you explain Christ as "the Bread of Life"?

I think it could be taken as either spiritual or literal, I tend to lean to it meaning more spiritual though but I understand those that would take it as a very literal meaning.

 

[BroTan]

These orthodox Christians said that the orthodox church is the only true church, the right one basically now whilst I have been looking into orthodoxy there's stuff about it I don't believe in but according to them, everything the orthodox church does is in the bible and following sola Scriptura is unbiblical as it was the early church who complied the bible. what do you guys think about this?

Well according the Bible let's see when the Church started and then we will see who is the church of God. The foundation of the church started in the wilderness on the seventh day of the week, Stephen mention that in Acts 7:38 - This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

So let's see Paul says in Romans 9: 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen

Let's get into more details brothers and Sisters.....For what purpose did the Lord choose the children of Israel? (Exodus 19: 1-6) Let's look at the 5th & 6th vs.; "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: (6th vs.) and ye shall be unto me a Kingdom of Priest, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." Take a look at what Peter was telling the Jews, quoting Moses in 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: What is the law that the people of God are to observe? (Exodus 20: 1-23) The Ten Commandments, God descended from heaven and spoke his commandments face to face with his people.

Is this law for the children of Israel only? No. (Leviticus 24: 22) "Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: For I am the Lord your God." How can one who is not of the lineage of Israel, become partakers of the covenant of God? (Ephesians 2:11-22) Let's look at the 11th through 13th verses. "Wherefore remember, that ye being in the time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (12th vs.) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (13th vs.) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Who can save the people of God? (Acts 4:10-12) "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. (11th verse) This is the stone that was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. (12th verse) Neither is there salvation in any other: For there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

What is the purpose of man? (Ecclesiastes 12:13) "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: For this is the whole duty of man."

 

[Tanaya]

Well according the Bible let's see when the Church started and then we will see who is the church of God. The foundation of the church started in the wilderness on the seventh day of the week, Stephen mention that in Acts 7:38 - This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us:

So let's see Paul says in Romans 9: 3 For I could wish that myself were accursed from Christ for my brethren, my kinsmen according to the flesh: 4 who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises; 5 whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever. Amen

Let's get into more details brothers and Sisters.....For what purpose did the Lord choose the children of Israel? (Exodus 19: 1-6) Let's look at the 5th & 6th vs.; "Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine: (6th vs.) and ye shall be unto me a Kingdom of Priest, and a holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel." Take a look at what Peter was telling the Jews, quoting Moses in 1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light: What is the law that the people of God are to observe? (Exodus 20: 1-23) The Ten Commandments, God descended from heaven and spoke his commandments face to face with his people.

Is this law for the children of Israel only? No. (Leviticus 24: 22) "Ye shall have one manner of law, as well for the stranger, as for one of your own country: For I am the Lord your God." How can one who is not of the lineage of Israel, become partakers of the covenant of God? (Ephesians 2:11-22) Let's look at the 11th through 13th verses. "Wherefore remember, that ye being in the time past Gentiles in the flesh, who are called uncircumcision by that which is called the circumcision in the flesh made by hands; (12th vs.) That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenant of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world: (13th vs.) But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ."

Who can save the people of God? (Acts 4:10-12) "Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole. (11th verse) This is the stone that was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner. (12th verse) Neither is there salvation in any other: For there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved."

What is the purpose of man? (Ecclesiastes 12:13) "Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: For this is the whole duty of man."

It's interesting I could say orthodox and Catholics both have claim and the Lutheran churches also, I guess it depends on how you interpret it. I can't say I'm well versed enough to know how to decipher the more bible yet especially when it's not an English standard version, so forgive me for being a little slow to understanding,

 

[posthuman]

according to them, everything the orthodox church does is in the bible and following sola Scriptura is unbiblical as it was the early church who complied the bible. what do you guys think about this?

What they might mean by that is, the Bible itself doesn't say what books are in it - the early church sorted out what was scripture and what was not. and the Bible doesn't tell us for example everything a church meeting should look like, or how it should be organized ((tho it does say some things)) - so all the details of that didn't come from 'sola scriptura'

this is a justificatiom for the liturgies they keep, because they are traditions handed down to them over 1500 years. protestants will say, those things are not in the Bible, we should not treat them like anything but tradition. the orthodox will answer, the Bible isn't the only source of authority - the Holy Spirit is also a source of authority, and these traditions started with people who had the Holy Spirit.

It gets to be a messy and deep question about what is really authority from God. like the RCC says the pope is, whatever he says is like coming straight from God.
protestants arrived at sola scriptura ((only scripture)) as a reaction to, frankly, bad popes and bad decisions by the RCC that were clearly in conflict with scripture.

we may not be able to tell always if someone is speaking from God or not, but we DO know that the Bible is from Him, so we know everything in it is true and right, and we can use it as a 'test' because no one really speaking by the Spirit will contradict it.

 

[posthuman]

In all honesty the Roman Catholics, the Orthodox churches, and all protestants agree on the basic points of the gospel:

That Christ is fully God and fully man, uncreated, eternal - and He came to save us from sin by dying on the cross for us, paying our debt in full, that He rose the 3rd day and ascended to heaven to prepare a place for us, that He will come again to gather us to Himself, and that He will judge the world. that salvation is by God's grace, through faith in Him, and all believers should be baptized with water, confessing that faith, and try to live righteous lives, turning away from our sin, forgiving others just as we have been forgiven.

so don't be too worried, Tanaya