question: Can an unsaved person be baptized in the Holy Spirit?

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Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
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that is not an attack huh?



Please enlighten us, what is my camp. what do I teach that is in error?
Is this edifying ?
Yes. This was my point all along. If you don't have the Spirit, you do not belong to God. The truth of Romans 8 didn't begin when it was written. It's always been true. But it was more fully revealed here and in other NT passages. That was the reasoning behind the very first question I asked you.
ok I see now where your coming from.

I've heard this befor that people of the ot has the spirit indwelled permanently. But you know if this makes you feel more comfortable with scripture that's fine.

All this this is puzzling to me 🤔.

I've only ever thought you can be made alive in Christ.

Now I do feel you can be alive in the father via a hedge of protection, but not an entity as you put it, but some kind of shielding light
 
N

Niki7

Guest
Fail

The death of christ will do you no good unless you are baptized into that death by God.

you either have a comprehension problem, or just want to argue for arguments sake. lets hope you understand it now
We are saved by faith in Christ and AFTER that fact, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. (I'm not posting references here because I have posted the verses with references to you more than once)

Water baptism is symbolic of our death in Christ. We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit. I have repeated this more than once also

So, that would be why I am not longer going to respond to your obvious pokes at getting an argument going
 
N

Niki7

Guest
I posted the following just today for discussion or at least an effort at actual contribution. Don't bother me again with nonsense Everlasting, unless you have an actual contribution to make and the following should give you a place to start. I am not going to take you up on your offer of personal confrontation which every person who cannot address actual biblical contributions usually resorts to in order to sound offended. They will also usually say they have been attacked.

Here is a simple and truthful guide to better understand why the law is no longer in effect. This is a portion of the entire post and to read the entire article, just click on 'source' at the end of this post

There is no conflict between grace and the Law, properly understood. Christ fulfilled the Law on our behalf and offers the power of the Holy Spirit, who motivates a regenerated heart to live in obedience to Him (Matthew 3:8; Acts 1:8; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 2 Timothy 1:14). James 2:26 says, “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.” A grace that has the power to save also has the power to motivate a sinful heart toward godliness. Where there is no impulse to be godly, there is no saving faith.

We are saved by grace, through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). The keeping of the Law cannot save anyone (Romans 3:20; Titus 3:5). In fact, those who claim righteousness on the basis of their keeping of the Law only think they’re keeping the Law; this was one of Jesus’ main points in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:20–48; see also Luke 18:18–23).

The purpose of the Law was, basically, to bring us to Christ (Galatians 3:24). Once we are saved, God desires to glorify Himself through our good works (Matthew 5:16; Ephesians 2:10). Therefore, good works follow salvation; they do not precede it.

Conflict between “grace” and the “Law” can arise when someone 1) misunderstands the purpose of the Law; 2) redefines grace as something other than “God’s benevolence on the undeserving” (see Romans 11:6); 3) tries to earn his own salvation or “supplement” Christ’s sacrifice; 4) follows the error of the Pharisees in tacking manmade rituals and traditions onto his doctrine; or 5) fails to focus on the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27).

When the Holy Spirit guides our search of Scripture, we can “study to show ourselves approved unto God” (2 Timothy 2:15) and discover the beauty of a grace that produces good works. source
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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Is this edifying ?
ok I see now where your coming from.

I've heard this befor that people of the ot has the spirit indwelled permanently. But you know if this makes you feel more comfortable with scripture that's fine.

All this this is puzzling to me 🤔.

I've only ever thought you can be made alive in Christ.

Now I do feel you can be alive in the father via a hedge of protection, but not an entity as you put it, but some kind of shielding light
It was Christ. That's why Jesus said Abraham saw His day and rejoiced to see it.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,945
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Never been more serious. You are playing a game here and I am not. Seems you have run out of words
I am not playing any game

name your accusation against me

or show this room you can't back your accusations
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
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We are saved by faith in Christ
Agree 100% what does God do that actually saves us when we call out on the name, before we are sealed.

and AFTER that fact, we are sealed with the Holy Spirit. (I'm not posting references here because I have posted the verses with references to you more than once)
Once again, i agree 100% so what is the issue here?

Water baptism is symbolic of our death in Christ. We are baptized into Christ by the Holy Spirit. I have repeated this more than once also
Then why are you attacking me for saying we are baptized INTO christ by the HS.

I have NEVER stated we are saved by being baptised into water. I have stated Holy Spirit baptism is where GOD baptized us into his death,k and you went on a rampage!

if thats your accusation. YOU ARE IN ERROR!!!



So, that would be why I am not longer going to respond to your obvious pokes at getting an argument going
no, You make accusations and can not back them up.. You still can;t confirm what it is that I teach in error..[/quote]
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
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It was Christ. That's why Jesus said Abraham saw His day and rejoiced to see it.
This is where it gets verry technical for me.

The lord is referred to both the father and son in the bible.

I guess people have different ways of rationalizing and making things fit.

But when one degree of rationalizing does not add up with another, then scripture is not lining up for me and I struggle to make your fits into every degree but some degree.

For me my rationalizing aligns with everything from the trinity to the prophet's to Christ to being nurtured to being lead by the father and the son.

To Adam and the fall to Abraham's bussom to salvation.

To the law and the commandments.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,945
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I posted the following just today for discussion or at least an effort at actual contribution. Don't bother me again with nonsense Everlasting, unless you have an actual contribution to make and the following should give you a place to start. I am not going to take you up on your offer of personal confrontation which every person who cannot address actual biblical contributions usually resorts to in order to sound offended. They will also usually say they have been attacked.

Here is a simple and truthful guide to better understand why the law is no longer in effect. This is a portion of the entire post and to read the entire article, just click on 'source' at the end of this post

There is no conflict between grace and the Law, properly understood. Christ fulfilled the Law on our behalf and offers the power of the Holy Spirit, who motivates a regenerated heart to live in obedience to Him (Matthew 3:8; Acts 1:8; 1 Thessalonians 1:5; 2 Timothy 1:14). James 2:26 says, “As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.” A grace that has the power to save also has the power to motivate a sinful heart toward godliness. Where there is no impulse to be godly, there is no saving faith.

We are saved by grace, through faith (Ephesians 2:8–9). The keeping of the Law cannot save anyone (Romans 3:20; Titus 3:5). In fact, those who claim righteousness on the basis of their keeping of the Law only think they’re keeping the Law; this was one of Jesus’ main points in the Sermon on the Mount (Matthew 5:20–48; see also Luke 18:18–23).

The purpose of the Law was, basically, to bring us to Christ (Galatians 3:24). Once we are saved, God desires to glorify Himself through our good works (Matthew 5:16; Ephesians 2:10). Therefore, good works follow salvation; they do not precede it.

Conflict between “grace” and the “Law” can arise when someone 1) misunderstands the purpose of the Law; 2) redefines grace as something other than “God’s benevolence on the undeserving” (see Romans 11:6); 3) tries to earn his own salvation or “supplement” Christ’s sacrifice; 4) follows the error of the Pharisees in tacking manmade rituals and traditions onto his doctrine; or 5) fails to focus on the “whole counsel of God” (Acts 20:27).

When the Holy Spirit guides our search of Scripture, we can “study to show ourselves approved unto God” (2 Timothy 2:15) and discover the beauty of a grace that produces good works. source
You can post crap until your blue in the face.

if you do not preach that it is through baptism of the spirit (NOT WATER) in which we recieve the washing of the HS. the circumcision made without the hands of men, by being Baptized INTO christ death and burial and his body.

then you are in error
 
Jul 6, 2023
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Since what MAKES a person a Born Again Christian, is the infilling of the Holy Spirit, then I 'spect that when Thomas accepted in FAITH who Jesus WAS, then the Spirit infilled him, just like He does us when WE place our God given FAITH in Him.

No, the Bible doesn't state specifically that was the case. But when the Holy Spirit became available to indwell after the ressurection (which proved that Jesus' sacrifice was acceptable), then His infilling became automatic after surrender, repentance, and calling upon God for salvation.

The Acts 2:4 thing is different - NOT an "infilling, but an EXTERNAL CLOTHING with "power from on high" (Luke 24:49). Since OLD Testament people also were "clothed with POWER from on high, arguably, the "Baptism in the Holy SPirit" (so called) also happened to them back then, at God's pleasure. TODAY, however it's potentially universal among Christians.
Acts 2:4 "All of them were filled with the Holy Spirit and began to speak in tongues". Seems like infilling to me (at least initially). But Luke 24:49 says clothed so perhaps infilling and clothing are not mutually exclusive and the event was both an infilling and a clothing. Perhaps the clothing simply confirmed their infilling. Going to have to meditate on this one! Thanks for your input.
 

Cameron143

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Mar 1, 2022
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This is where it gets verry technical for me.

The lord is referred to both the father and son in the bible.

I guess people have different ways of rationalizing and making things fit.

But when one degree of rationalizing does not add up with another, then scripture is not lining up for me and I struggle to make your fits into every degree but some degree.

For me my rationalizing aligns with everything from the trinity to the prophet's to Christ to being nurtured to being lead by the father and the son.

To Adam and the fall to Abraham's bussom to salvation.

To the law and the commandments.
I understand your position. People are free to believe what they believe. But I'm not rationalizing to make things fit. I'm using the truth of scripture to understand other scripture.
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
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421
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well so far. it is leading to someone backpeddling and unable to name his accusation.
well if you look at the last post it's all becoming about me me me and crap.

It won't be long before you lose your cool 😎
 

Everlasting-Grace

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Dec 18, 2021
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well if you look at the last post it's all becoming about me me me and crap.

It won't be long before you lose your cool 😎
Nah,

he exposed himself.

I know he thinks I was saying we must be water baptised to be saved (At least I think it) which is false. and the fact he will not confess what it is he thinks I got wrong. he just exposes himself.

I do not need to say much else
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
I understand your position. People are free to believe what they believe. But I'm not rationalizing to make things fit. I'm using the truth of scripture to understand other scripture.
I love to rationalize it makes for Good reasoning 🙂.
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
Nah,

he exposed himself.

I know he thinks I was saying we must be water baptised to be saved (At least I think it) which is false. and the fact he will not confess what it is he thinks I got wrong. he just exposes himself.

I do not need to say much else
I thought he was a she lol.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,213
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I love to rationalize it makes for Good reasoning 🙂.
Reason has its place, but truth is spiritually discerned. The reason is because God's ways and thoughts are far beyond our ways and thoughts. If we are going to understand the word of God, reasoning will only get you so far.