Pre-Destination, God's Foreknowledge and Choice

[Inquisitor]

no, Paul said, they were broken off due to disbelief, nothing that God did to them.

Which means that there is no longer a special, chosen nation of Israel.

 

[Inquisitor]

God is so incredibly magnificent that words fail to describe Him. We sing a song sometimes called " O For A Thousand Tongues ". And yet, even were we all to have a 1,000 tongues to sing our great Redeemer's praise, we would fall short of the praise He is due.

I believe it was R. C. Sproul who said there was not one maverick molecule in the universe. A simple perusal of the Bible demonstrates this and that history is under divine control and following a divine timetable and fulfilling divine purposes. And to view history as a series of random events is to miss the point of creation in the first place.

I am always intrigued, though, as you seem to be, how individuals come to believe as they do.

Events cannot be random.

There is a strong predetermined line of events throughout the history of the universe, undeniable.

Yet, so few believe in Jesus.

 

[Cameron143]

Events cannot be random.

There is a strong predetermined line of events throughout the history of the universe, undeniable.

Yet, so few believe in Jesus.

Romans 3:10 and following explains why.

 

[Inquisitor]

Romans 3:10 and following explains why.

Yes, I agree with that.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Which means that there is no longer a special, chosen nation of Israel.

just means, WE are all EQUAL, but No One has Replaced Israel and No One ever will.

 

[Inquisitor]

just means, WE are all EQUAL, but No One has Replaced Israel and No One ever will.

So does the Jew come first or is it a level playing field?

In Paul's era the Jew came first.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

So does the Jew come first or is it a level playing field?

In Paul's era the Jew came first.

the Bible plainly states the Jew first.
and then later it's stated, there's no Jew nor Gentile.

I truly believe, if a Jew and Gentile, both, simultaneously came to follow Christ at the same time, God, isn't personally Saving the Jew first but saving them both at the same time.

 

[Cameron143]

the Bible plainly states the Jew first.
and then later it's stated, there's no Jew nor Gentile.

I truly believe, if a Jew and Gentile, both, simultaneously came to follow Christ at the same time, God, isn't personally Saving the Jew first but saving them both at the same time.

Can someone quote the verse here. I always thought it just meant Jesus came first to the house of Israel and now the focus is on the whole world.

 

[MichaelZ]

Yes, the Jew first since they knew the scriptures that foretold the coming of Jesus as Messiah.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Can someone quote the verse here. I always thought it just meant Jesus came first to the house of Israel and now the focus is on the whole world.

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

 

[Cameron143]

Romans 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.

Do you believe that this is intended to prioritize evangelism to Jews over Gentiles, or simply that the gospel was first delivered to Jews and then Gentiles?

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Do you believe that this is intended to prioritize evangelism to Jews over Gentiles, or simply that the gospel was first delivered to Jews and then Gentiles?

i think it's just how it happened. Jesus came to the Jew and Spoke about how the Gentiles would be added. i don't think there is any more significance other than that. i think today it is whosoever Believes.

 

[Inquisitor]

Can someone quote the verse here. I always thought it just meant Jesus came first to the house of Israel and now the focus is on the whole world.

Romans 11:25
For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Well is it a level playing field?

 

[Cameron143]

Romans 11:25
For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Well is it a level playing field?

I think it was always God's plan. The hardening is just the means God chose to use.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Romans 11:25
For I do not want you, brothers and sisters, to be uninformed of this mystery—so that you will not be wise in your own estimation—that a partial hardening has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.

Well is it a level playing field?

They had 4,000 years + the past 2,000 years looking "For now we see in a mirror dimly."
so, that's basically 6,000 years to 1,900 years.

definitely not level, but Fair!

 

[Inquisitor]

I think it was always God's plan. The hardening is just the means God chose to use.

Did God harden them to the truth or were they stubborn and rebellious?

 

[Cameron143]

Did God harden them to the truth or were they stubborn and rebellious?

I think people fit themselves for destruction. The Jewish nation is often described as stiffnecked and rebellious. So if God allows things to follow its natural course and not intervene, people will end up hardened.

 

[Magenta]

Romans 3:10 and following explains why.

Romans 3:10-12

 

[notmyown]

Isaiah 46:10

oh, that's such a pretty one with the roses and butterflies! i love that!

 

[Nehemiah6]

Did God harden them to the truth or were they stubborn and rebellious?

God hardens only those who CHOOSE to first harden themselves. He prefers that they repent. This is very clear in the Bible.