Who are the covenant people

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Does a new covenant make an older covenant obsolete

  • Yes

    Votes: 11 68.8%
  • No

    Votes: 4 25.0%
  • Don't know

    Votes: 1 6.3%

  • Total voters
    16

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#81
since you have stopped responding.. and never answered me.

This question is illogical.

Since even gentiles know that adultry is a sin, they know we should honor our parents, they know these things even though they were never given the law (see also romans 1)

why would after they are saved they change their mind on these things and think they are now ok?
I gave a response to the law not being a curse in one direction.

See post 79.

The marriage being broken is a deep affliction to the lord.

Hypothetically Let's add the afflictions to each commandment written on the heart.

Starting with don't commit adultery.

Let's add the affliction which is don't break the honor of marriage.

So if I said God wrote on your heart don't break the marriage would you see that as a law written on your heart by God for evermore or as something holy, or would you that as don't commit adultery.

Either way would you say its Good to have a covenant wrote on your heart
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#82
I gave a response to the law not being a curse in one direction.

See post 79.

The marriage being broken is a deep affliction to the lord.

Hypothetically Let's add the afflictions to each commandment written on the heart.

Starting with don't commit adultery.

Let's add the affliction which is don't break the honor of marriage.

So if I said God wrote on your heart don't break the marriage would you see that as a law written on your heart by God for evermore or as something holy, or would you that as don't commit adultery.

Either way would you say its Good to have a covenant wrote on your heart
I say we were made in Gods image and as such, We have his character imprinted in our minds. thats why even though gentiles did not have the law. They had better morals at the time as the Jews. who had the law.

Jesus said if we want to do good. There are two laws that point us in that way. We call it the law of love

Paul says seek the things of the spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

You don't go thinking of some law to keep you from sin, it is proven by the Jews that does not work. in fact, scripture says it caused sin to increase, not decrease.

we are kept from sin by always serving others and putting their needs above your own in love.

thats why Jesus said, in these two commands (LOVE) are all the law and prophets
 

mailmandan

Senior Member
Apr 7, 2014
25,475
13,419
113
58
#83
Hebrews 8:13 - In that He says, “A new covenant,” He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away.
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#84
I say we were made in Gods image and as such, We have his character imprinted in our minds. thats why even though gentiles did not have the law. They had better morals at the time as the Jews. who had the law.

Jesus said if we want to do good. There are two laws that point us in that way. We call it the law of love

Paul says seek the things of the spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.

You don't go thinking of some law to keep you from sin, it is proven by the Jews that does not work. in fact, scripture says it caused sin to increase, not decrease.

we are kept from sin by always serving others and putting their needs above your own in love.

thats why Jesus said, in these two commands (LOVE) are all the law and prophets
if we where made in God's image we would be invisible too. The image for us at first creation was free from sin, the image changed for us, because we can't be free from sin once it's entered.

Or else you wouldn't suffer guilt from sin.

We are free from the curse of sin which nothing to do with the law.

We will never be free from the law until there is place no longer needed for it.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,156
5,724
113
#85
You see something, but that what was written on stone was an imprint at first on the stone,

The imprint was Gods scar married onto a stone as to not scar our hearts so to speak at first.

But did that stop the afflictions, God was still recieving, no not so.

Right after Jesus wrote his father's afflictions on the foundation of the whole earth apart from hearts at that moment (the stone tablet).

The saved slaves started to worship a bull ?.

God was once again inflicted and carried he brought fourth punishment to his chosen people.

This was still not enough.

Many Judgements followed to the slaves of Isreal, those slaves where the chosen people of God's promise,

God decided to make those slaves feel his afflictions also and wrote his commandments on there heart.

Why would he not inflict this sooner at the stone tablet covenant ? if it was the case they heard the commandments and they wrote themselves on hearts without God needing to write them on hearts sooner ? Why would God need to write them stone tablets if they wrote them selves on hearts after hearing them.

The only visable answer is no they could not scar the hearts deep enough to cause the slaves to think twice.

Then comes Jeremiah i will write theese commandments possibly deeper into there hearts. And so it was done.

Whilst someone may say that is a curse I say that depends on how deep they where wrote in the heart.

a scar remains but a scars can wound a person to cause affliction, just enough to make them think twice .

This is the burden we all most bare from our ancestors who learnt to carry the burden of infliction be it there wounds or there brothers wounds

Jesus is the Judge of those wounds, and the commandments were for all earth written in the foundation of the earth. And by your wounds you shall be healed.
“Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God;

not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:2-4, 6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you understand what Paul’s saying here ?
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#86
“Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men: forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God;

not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart. And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward: who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:2-4, 6-7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you understand what Paul’s saying here ?.
2 Corinthians 3

New International Version



3 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

This to me says the ark of the covenant is written on Christians hearts 😊.
 

Everlasting-Grace

Well-known member
Dec 18, 2021
5,947
1,872
113
#87
if we where made in God's image we would be invisible too. The image for us at first creation was free from sin, the image changed for us, because we can't be free from sin once it's entered.

Or else you wouldn't suffer guilt from sin.

We are free from the curse of sin which nothing to do with the law.

We will never be free from the law until there is place no longer needed for it.
smh
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,156
5,724
113
#88
2 Corinthians 3

New International Version



3 Are we beginning to commend ourselves again? Or do we need, like some people, letters of recommendation to you or from you? 2 You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone. 3 You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.

This to me says the ark of the covenant is written on Christians hearts 😊.
The ark of the covenant is written on hearts too ? Have you ever read the law of Moses brother ? This his what was placed in the side of the ark

Take this book of the law, and put it in the side of the ark of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there for a witness against thee. For I know thy rebellion, and thy stiff neck: behold, while I am yet alive with you this day, ye have been rebellious against the LORD; and how much more after my death?”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭31:26-27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

So God wrote this in our heart ?

Consider what Paul is saying the commandments are for here using the example of “ thou shalt not covet”

“What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭7:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s a ten commandment right ? Paul’s explaining what use it has its there to teach man about sin and death this is what the law is for according to an apostle

“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.

Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭3:19-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You understand that part ? “Thou shalt not kill “ teaches a person killing is wrong it’s sin and you’ll die “ Like this

This is sin
Thou shalt not kill.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:13‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is the result

“And he that killeth any man shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭24:17‬ ‭

One more example this is sin

“Thou shalt not commit adultery.”
‭‭Exodus‬ ‭20:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This the result

“And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.”
‭‭Leviticus‬ ‭20:10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now we might say if anyone needs to be taught killing is wrong there’s a big issue and that’s the point the law is made for people without discernment of good and evil it’s not for a righteous person it’s for vile people

“knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, for whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine;”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭1:9-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

See you have to tell killers “ do not kill or you’ll be killed “ you have to tell adulterers at heart “ don’t commit that adultery your desiring to commit or you must die “ ect

Christian’s are born in Christ and taught what to do how to live others right

the law is telling sinners not to sin or they will die how to not die v how to come to life and overcome the world

God didn’t write a law making us guilty on our hearts he wrote this word here is we are willing to hear and believe this word

“Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭5:24‬ ‭KJV‬‬

at he word of spirit and life

“It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.”
‭‭John‬ ‭6:63‬ ‭KJV‬‬

the word that sees an adultery and doesn’t follow the laws command to execute her but instead he saves her from the laws demand of her death

now if we follow Jesus we aren’t going to kill he teaches us to love instead and if we follow Jesus we aren’t going to be desiring adultery and fornocation because he teaches us to take control of our minds and hearts in other words if we actually learn from and follow Jesus we aren’t going to be breaking the commandments we won’t kill or cheat or lie or dishonor our parents ect so it’s not like chrirtians are taught to now defile Moses law it’s just a different perspective

zone is God speaking to corrupt man who can’t do right the other is God speaking to those he has remitted thier sins and given them new birth as his children we want this word that offers life and not the one that guarantees the accusation and death sentance of all sinners that’s not going to help us we need the fathers word that came through the son

“And call no man your father upon the earth: for one is your Father, which is in heaven.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬




 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,256
6,618
113
62
#89
Do you get up each day, get alone with God, and....

...see how you can better keep His commandments?
or...
...commune with Him, enjoying His presence and seek to abide in the Spirit in this way all day?

We will never either please God or keep the commandments in our own strength. It is only as we walk in the Spirit that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#90
This to me says the ark of the covenant is written on Christians hearts 😊.
.

The ark of the covenant is written on hearts too ? Have you ever read the law of Moses brother ? This his what was placed in the side of the ark.
But He answered and said, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God.’”


The bread is Jesus that lives in the heart and his word is what comes out of the heart,

As Jesus came to fulfill his law

be adviced and by there fruits ye shall know them.

Ye shall not worship any other God.

And I will write my laws on there hearts

And by there fruits you shall know them

And out of there mouths come my commandments 😊
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#91
Do you get up each day, get alone with God, and....

...see how you can better keep His commandments?
or...
...commune with Him, enjoying His presence and seek to abide in the Spirit in this way all day?

We will never either please God or keep the commandments in our own strength. It is only as we walk in the Spirit that we will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh.
it is is rather his commandments keep you in his ark
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#92
I ask again who are the covenant people
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#94
Then what does this mean

But He answered and said, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God.’”

I'll give my ten sense


Living by bread

Must be the internal bread of life Jesus

In side the heart.

Living by the word in the same text must be every word from God that lives in the heart.

But living by bread is not enough

The word is the whole new covenant what else could it mean ?
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#96
The written Word of God.
Does this account for the written word living on the outside or the inside.

But He answered and said, “It is written: ‘Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeded out of the mouth of God.’”

Do Christians live with the bread on the outside or the inside.

Do Christians live by every word that comes out of the mouth of God on the outside or the inside.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,776
113
#97
Does this account for the written word living on the outside or the inside.
No need to go off on a tangent. The covenant people was the nation of Israel. This is a totally different matter.
 

Fundaamental

Well-known member
Mar 17, 2023
3,289
421
83
#98
No need to go off on a tangent. The covenant people was the nation of Israel. This is a totally different matter.
I don't see how I've gone of on a totally different line of thought which you never answered 🤔
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
856
286
63
#99
Who are the covenant people?
A covenant means a sacred agreement or a mutual promise between God and a person or a group of people.

Does one new covenant make an older covenant obsolete ?
The new and old covenants is with Israel and the Gentiles are included, for Gentiles in the Old Testament could be blessed if they took hold of God's covenant as well in the New Testament.

When a Gentile is saved they become a Jew inward, and they become part of the commonwealth of Israel.

The 12 tribes of Israel, and the 12 apostles of the Lamb are written in the New Jerusalem.

God will restore the kingdom on earth back to the Hebrews.
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
856
286
63
if I'm not walking in the spirit when I sin does this mean the holy spirit has left me
That does not mean the Holy Spirit has left you which Jesus said He will never leave or forsake us, but when you sin you forfeit repentance because you are led of the flesh until you get rid of the sin, but the Spirit will convict you to get rid of the sin.