Fighting for your Country

[Moses_Young]

Exactly. Another post devoid of wisdom. When you fight for the US, you are not fighting for your political servants. You are fighting for your neighbors... for the constitution and therefore, our founding philosophies and way of life. For goodness' sake!!

Are you talking in practice or in theory? Because if you're talking in practice, I'd disagree. If you can't see how the US military has been used for wicked political purposes in the past, I doubt we'll ever find common ground to agree.

I'm not talking about the motives of the servicemen who put their lives on the line, especially those who are prepared to defend the country and the constitution with their lives - and even at the risk of their military careers or a dishonourable discharge when disobeying illegal orders - but rather the politicians and top brass who control them. For example, the covid vaxx. All those in the military with debilitating disease or injury from the mandated covid vaxx wasn't for the benefit of the country, it was for the benefit of Joe Biden, the CCP and other crooks.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

You have a LOT of time on your hands. Far more than I have. I doubt I can respond to this entire thing. I'll do what I can, but I will not be addressing each thought.

Actually, I do not have a lot of time on my hands. In fact, I was almost late for work today because I took the time to make my last response, and I am normally notorious for arriving early everywhere that I go.

You are correct in that I may owe you an apology... or two. But, before I get to that...

No worries. I probably need to apologize for a thing or two myself.

The images you posted were ridiculous, as they had nothing to do with my point about the Left.

They had everything to do with your point. You said that "the Left" thinks the USA is fascist, and I posted a bunch of images where the fasces appear here in the USA. Here is another one of the fasces in the Oval Office in the White House:



Why is the fasces so prevalent in the USA?

Had someone on "the Left" accused the USA of being a bunch of Nazis, and had I posted a bunch of pictures of swastikas in this nation in places related to our government, would you have found that as equally ridiculous?

What are these fasces doing here?

Who put them here, and for what purpose?

Those seem like relevant questions to me.

Secondly, comparing our screen IDs / avatars the way you did was ludicrous, childish and therefore sinful. That didn't help to advance your point. Moving on...

It was none of the above, so relax. I just found it interesting that you kept on going on about the Japanese while your avatar is a Japanese monster.

What I read in that initial post that I responded to sounded to me like someone who did not think we ought to have a military. It also sounded to me like you were comparing us to Sodom -- I do not recall saying that you actually did say that, but I may have, and if I did, I do apologize and ask your forgiveness for misrepresenting you.

Again, no worries. I was not fishing for an apology, but that you gave one says a lot about your character, so good on you.

However, I stand by my opinion that we are not as wicked as you say. I think you overstate the case. We have a ton of believers here, and they are praying for the nation. ~Half the country voted for Trump, which is essentially a vote for the constitution and traditional values (yeah, I know he's crude... regardless).

I voted for Trump twice myself, and I am also in favor of the Constitution and traditional values. Even so, this is still a very wicked nation. I trust that I do not need to give you a long list of sins that this nation is guilty of before God. He is not turning his head from them. Judgment will eventually come.

Now, I cannot read everything everyone posts, so that is why I asked if you just condemn the country, or do you seek God for its restoration also? Your statement that you evangelize your enemies somewhat answers this, but not completely. Are you also seeking God for the restoration of the country? That I do not recall an answer to.

From my point of view, which I will elaborate more on in the future if necessary, restoration comes one soul at a time. In other words, based upon my understanding of God's word, and my understanding of prophecy, specifically, I do not foresee any sort of national revival here. At the same time, I do believe that a lot of individuals can be saved, so that is where I primarily set my focus.

As for my raising the issue of Japan, I was genuinely curious to know what you thought our of military response -- justified or not? How do I know what your "discernment" is telling you? From that response would come other questions. Unfortunately, what I did was assume your answers before you gave them, and I then answered those assumptions with my questions. Again, forgive me for flying off the handle and overreacting. I read you emotionally, not intellectually.

Again, you really need not apologize, but I definitely forgive you. This topic agitates me quite a bit too, so I probably could have answered you a bit more gracefully myself. If I caused you any personal offense, then I am sorry. Just as an FYI, I recently came here, and if you understood where I came from, then you would much better understand me. Simply put, I had just finished spending years, basically spinning my wheels, while dealing with a group of people, some who claim to be Christians, who did nothing but piss and moan about our government, the Media, our schools, etc., etc. each and every day, yet they had no interest whatsoever in trying to fix things by preaching the gospel of Christ. I finally had enough of that, and here I am.

As far as discerning the events surrounding WWII is concerned, well, obviously, I was not even alive back then, so I only have "history" to go by, and a part of it, I can pretty much assure at least myself, is revisionist history. In other words, I have found, time and time again, that the accepted narrative contains much falsehood. That said, I do see God's hand in the aftermath of WWII, or in the Jews returning to their homeland of Israel. God has foretold the end from the beginning, and the Jews need to be there in order for certain prophesied end-time events to be fulfilled, and I believe that God orchestrated that somehow through the whole WWII fiasco.

The thing for me is -- and my problem with your post is this: The state of the nation is of grave concern to me. So, when someone talks the way you did, basically condemning the country, but not (seemingly, anyway) saying that he was seeking God for its repentance and restoration, I get angry. I should have read your post more calmly, but I let my emotions about this topic run me off the rails. And, I've asked you to forgive my misrepresentations. I won't be getting on my knees, however. That was a bit over the top, as was your analysis of the country.

I still disagree with you concerning my analysis of the country. This is a wicked nation, and there is really no disputing that fact. Are there righteous people in it? Yes, there are, but God has brought judgment upon other nations in the past when there were still some righteous people in them. You went to the extreme of Sodom and Gomorrah, but I never mentioned either of those two cities.

Anyway, as far as I am concerned, you and I are good.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

I do not know how that attachment wound up at the bottom of my post, and I could not figure out how to remove it, so please just disregard it.

 

[Gojira]

Are you talking in practice or in theory? Because if you're talking in practice, I'd disagree. If you can't see how the US military has been used for wicked political purposes in the past, I doubt we'll ever find common ground to agree.

I'm not talking about the motives of the servicemen who put their lives on the line, especially those who are prepared to defend the country and the constitution with their lives - and even at the risk of their military careers or a dishonourable discharge when disobeying illegal orders - but rather the politicians and top brass who control them. For example, the covid vaxx. All those in the military with debilitating disease or injury from the mandated covid vaxx wasn't for the benefit of the country, it was for the benefit of Joe Biden, the CCP and other crooks.

Hmm... we might have some agreement on that. I despise this current government, and I detest what they're doing to the military.

Thank you for clarifying.

 

[Gojira]

Actually, I do not have a lot of time on my hands. In fact, I was almost late for work today because I took the time to make my last response, and I am normally notorious for arriving early everywhere that I go.
No worries. I probably need to apologize for a thing or two myself.
They had everything to do with your point. You said that "the Left" thinks the USA is fascist, and I posted a bunch of images where the fasces appear here in the USA. Here is another one of the fasces in the Oval Office in the White House:

View attachment 254319

Why is the fasces so prevalent in the USA?

Had someone on "the Left" accused the USA of being a bunch of Nazis, and had I posted a bunch of pictures of swastikas in this nation in places related to our government, would you have found that as equally ridiculous?

What are these fasces doing here?

Who put them here, and for what purpose?

Those seem like relevant questions to me.
It was none of the above, so relax. I just found it interesting that you kept on going on about the Japanese while your avatar is a Japanese monster.
Again, no worries. I was not fishing for an apology, but that you gave one says a lot about your character, so good on you.
I voted for Trump twice myself, and I am also in favor of the Constitution and traditional values. Even so, this is still a very wicked nation. I trust that I do not need to give you a long list of sins that this nation is guilty of before God. He is not turning his head from them. Judgment will eventually come.
From my point of view, which I will elaborate more on in the future if necessary, restoration comes one soul at a time. In other words, based upon my understanding of God's word, and my understanding of prophecy, specifically, I do not foresee any sort of national revival here. At the same time, I do believe that a lot of individuals can be saved, so that is where I primarily set my focus.
Again, you really need not apologize, but I definitely forgive you. This topic agitates me quite a bit too, so I probably could have answered you a bit more gracefully myself. If I caused you any personal offense, then I am sorry. Just as an FYI, I recently came here, and if you understood where I came from, then you would much better understand me. Simply put, I had just finished spending years, basically spinning my wheels, while dealing with a group of people, some who claim to be Christians, who did nothing but piss and moan about our government, the Media, our schools, etc., etc. each and every day, yet they had no interest whatsoever in trying to fix things by preaching the gospel of Christ. I finally had enough of that, and here I am.

As far as discerning the events surrounding WWII is concerned, well, obviously, I was not even alive back then, so I only have "history" to go by, and a part of it, I can pretty much assure at least myself, is revisionist history. In other words, I have found, time and time again, that the accepted narrative contains much falsehood. That said, I do see God's hand in the aftermath of WWII, or in the Jews returning to their homeland of Israel. God has foretold the end from the beginning, and the Jews need to be there in order for certain prophesied end-time events to be fulfilled, and I believe that God orchestrated that somehow through the whole WWII fiasco.
I still disagree with you concerning my analysis of the country. This is a wicked nation, and there is really no disputing that fact. Are there righteous people in it? Yes, there are, but God has brought judgment upon other nations in the past when there were still some righteous people in them. You went to the extreme of Sodom and Gomorrah, but I never mentioned either of those two cities.

Anyway, as far as I am concerned, you and I are good.

I'll only address those images. Whatever they're there for, it's not why the Left calls America 'fascist'. They accuse us of fascism because of our economic system and racist past. They erroneously believe that large corporations are fascist. What I try to tell these nuts is that Volkswagen or Mercedes were not barking orders to Hitler. (Now, what Apple, Twitter and others have done recently is arguably fascistic, but, ironically enough, it's because they're doing the bidding of Leftists in power. And, if we ever did wind up with a fascist state here in the US, those corporations would be under the boot of that same government, not vice versa. Either way, the Left would have no problem with it because it's not fascism the Leftists fear, it's who's barking those authoritarian orders that makes them tremble -- or celebrate.)

As for why we have those sculptures and reliefs all over the place, I know that movements often borrow from the past. Hitler's swastika was an ancient symbol. We see it in both American Indian and Ancient Greek culture. The fasces we see here in the States I hardly believe were meant to convey collectivism. They undoubtedly have another purpose, but what I have never done the research on.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

I'll only address those images. Whatever they're there for, it's not why the Left calls America 'fascist'. They accuse us of fascism because of our economic system and racist past. They erroneously believe that large corporations are fascist. What I try to tell these nuts is that Volkswagen or Mercedes were not barking orders to Hitler. (Now, what Apple, Twitter and others have done recently is arguably fascistic, but, ironically enough, it's because they're doing the bidding of Leftists in power. And, if we ever did wind up with a fascist state here in the US, those corporations would be under the boot of that same government, not vice versa. Either way, the Left would have no problem with it because it's not fascism the Leftists fear, it's who's barking those authoritarian orders that makes them tremble -- or celebrate.)

As for why we have those sculptures and reliefs all over the place, I know that movements often borrow from the past. Hitler's swastika was an ancient symbol. We see it in both American Indian and Ancient Greek culture. The fasces we see here in the States I hardly believe were meant to convey collectivism. They undoubtedly have another purpose, but what I have never done the research on.

I am definitely not going to argue the fascist point. To be quite honest, I really do not care either way. I posted those images more as an FYI than anything else.

I must say, however, that you have yet to acknowledge that there have been times throughout history, and I could easily give more biblical examples, where God has stirred up invading armies against nations for corrective purposes or to bring judgment. Are you willing to admit this? I mean, it is reality whether you admit it or not. I am simply mentioning this because my original point was, and still is, that we need discernment where wars are concerned, and defending one's nation is not always a cut and dried issue.

 

[Gojira]

I am definitely not going to argue the fascist point. To be quite honest, I really do not care either way. I posted those images more as an FYI than anything else.

I must say, however, that you have yet to acknowledge that there have been times throughout history, and I could easily give more biblical examples, where God has stirred up invading armies against nations for corrective purposes or to bring judgment. Are you willing to admit this? I mean, it is reality whether you admit it or not. I am simply mentioning this because my original point was, and still is, that we need discernment where wars are concerned, and defending one's nation is not always a cut and dried issue.

I have addressed it. If not in my response to you, then in another.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

I have addressed it. If not in my response to you, then in another.

Okay. I will have to read the entire thread later. I am heading to a barbecue shortly.

 

[Gojira]

Okay. I will have to read the entire thread later. I am heading to a barbecue shortly.

Post #79.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Post #79.

Thanks. I just read it.

 

[hornetguy]

Actually, I do not have a lot of time on my hands. In fact, I was almost late for work today because I took the time to make my last response, and I am normally notorious for arriving early everywhere that I go.
No worries. I probably need to apologize for a thing or two myself.
They had everything to do with your point. You said that "the Left" thinks the USA is fascist, and I posted a bunch of images where the fasces appear here in the USA. Here is another one of the fasces in the Oval Office in the White House:

View attachment 254319

Why is the fasces so prevalent in the USA?

Had someone on "the Left" accused the USA of being a bunch of Nazis, and had I posted a bunch of pictures of swastikas in this nation in places related to our government, would you have found that as equally ridiculous?

What are these fasces doing here?

Who put them here, and for what purpose?

Those seem like relevant questions to me.
It was none of the above, so relax. I just found it interesting that you kept on going on about the Japanese while your avatar is a Japanese monster.
Again, no worries. I was not fishing for an apology, but that you gave one says a lot about your character, so good on you.
I voted for Trump twice myself, and I am also in favor of the Constitution and traditional values. Even so, this is still a very wicked nation. I trust that I do not need to give you a long list of sins that this nation is guilty of before God. He is not turning his head from them. Judgment will eventually come.
From my point of view, which I will elaborate more on in the future if necessary, restoration comes one soul at a time. In other words, based upon my understanding of God's word, and my understanding of prophecy, specifically, I do not foresee any sort of national revival here. At the same time, I do believe that a lot of individuals can be saved, so that is where I primarily set my focus.
Again, you really need not apologize, but I definitely forgive you. This topic agitates me quite a bit too, so I probably could have answered you a bit more gracefully myself. If I caused you any personal offense, then I am sorry. Just as an FYI, I recently came here, and if you understood where I came from, then you would much better understand me. Simply put, I had just finished spending years, basically spinning my wheels, while dealing with a group of people, some who claim to be Christians, who did nothing but piss and moan about our government, the Media, our schools, etc., etc. each and every day, yet they had no interest whatsoever in trying to fix things by preaching the gospel of Christ. I finally had enough of that, and here I am.

As far as discerning the events surrounding WWII is concerned, well, obviously, I was not even alive back then, so I only have "history" to go by, and a part of it, I can pretty much assure at least myself, is revisionist history. In other words, I have found, time and time again, that the accepted narrative contains much falsehood. That said, I do see God's hand in the aftermath of WWII, or in the Jews returning to their homeland of Israel. God has foretold the end from the beginning, and the Jews need to be there in order for certain prophesied end-time events to be fulfilled, and I believe that God orchestrated that somehow through the whole WWII fiasco.
I still disagree with you concerning my analysis of the country. This is a wicked nation, and there is really no disputing that fact. Are there righteous people in it? Yes, there are, but God has brought judgment upon other nations in the past when there were still some righteous people in them. You went to the extreme of Sodom and Gomorrah, but I never mentioned either of those two cities.

Anyway, as far as I am concerned, you and I are good.

Sorry, but you are completely off track trying to show pictures of some type of ancient Roman symbol of authority.

He's talking about fascism... a political viewpoint... has nothing to do with that symbol being used. The United States has never been a dictatorship, even though some presidents have attempted it...

"The English words 'fascist' and 'fascism' are first cited in 1919 and 1921, respectively. In simplest terms, fascism refers to a specific way of organizing a society: under fascism, a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people in that society, and allows no dissent or disagreement."

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Sorry, but you are completely off track trying to show pictures of some type of ancient Roman symbol of authority.

He's talking about fascism... a political viewpoint... has nothing to do with that symbol being used. The United States has never been a dictatorship, even though some presidents have attempted it...

"The English words 'fascist' and 'fascism' are first cited in 1919 and 1921, respectively. In simplest terms, fascism refers to a specific way of organizing a society: under fascism, a government ruled by a dictator controls the lives of the people in that society, and allows no dissent or disagreement."

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but your attempted reproof actually made me laugh, but not at you.

In other words, as I read your description of fascists, it immediately reminded me of just about every President we have had during my lifetime.

Anyway, like I already said, it truly does not matter to me either way.

 

[Gojira]

You are certainly entitled to your opinion, but your attempted reproof actually made me laugh, but not at you.

In other words, as I read your description of fascists, it immediately reminded me of just about every President we have had during my lifetime.

Anyway, like I already said, it truly does not matter to me either way.

Regardless, the US has never been a fascist country. You can argue it has been attempted (by Woodrow Wilson, e.g.), but that's why we have a separation of powers, federalism, etc. I'm not sure why this is a point of contention.

As for the current regime, it is certainly being attempted again. And, it will succeed if we, the Church, do not get involved to stop it. Witnessing to our enemies is certainly one way. That's the micro. But, there are macro strategies that must be employed as well, and ought not to be ignored.

This is what I mean about your posts. You don't seem to care about the direction the country takes. Oh, God's gonna judge us, and I'm just gonna witness to as many as I can. This is the sense I get from your posts. Am I wrong?

We must do the latter without neglecting the former. If we do, we will have no one to blame but ourselves, as we are called to be the preserver. If we fail to preserve, our country will rot -- which we are beginning to see now.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Am I wrong?

In a word, yes, although I would prefer to say that you are mistaken.

Out of curiosity, on what you called the macro level, what would you suggest that I do?

My guess is that, whatever it is, I have already done it numerous times.

Anyway, we are all ultimately accountable for that which God has shown us. No offense, but you know nothing about my walk or interactions with God. Where this nation is concerned, I am not worried that I am failing God in the least. Again, I base that both upon his word and my personal interactions with him.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

I have a totally sincere question for all of you:

Are you aware that Jesus and the Apostles brought many to salvation, healed many, and delivered many in a land that was under foreign occupation?

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

@Gojira

I need to turn in for the night, but, before I do, I want to clarify something for you.

In fairness to you, I can see how you are misreading or misunderstanding what I have been saying here. In other words, when I say things like "it does not matter to me", I am not saying "The hell with everyone".

Let me see if I can explain what I am actually saying this way...

Let us say, for the sake of discussion, that this nation truly became a Constitutional Republic where traditional values were upheld. Would that alone save anybody? No, it would not. People need to be saved from their sins through Christ. On this point, hopefully, we agree.

Well, here is the thing, and I am being completely honest before both God and man with what I am about to say.

When things turned for the worse in this nation, and we could argue as to how long ago that happened, I noticed that my ability to share the gospel with people increased tremendously. In other words, people who were just going on and happily living their lives with no thought of God or eternity were suddenly willing to listen to the gospel. In fact, with many of them, I kind of used the backdoor approach, or, instead of initially preaching Christ to them, I showed them how things which were transpiring in both this nation and abroad were the workings of the spirit of antichrist, and they saw it. When they did, then I was able to effectively preach Christ to them.

Was there some sort of major revival?

No, but I definitely, by the grace of God, have helped to lead some people to the Lord, and I have definitely been able to plant some very good seed in the hearts and minds of others that I formerly had not been able to plant when everything was hunky dory in this nation.

This is what I mean when I say that I do not care what type of government we have. Not only is the gospel unhindered by natural governments (again, Jesus and the Apostles ministered primarily under Roman rule), but, as I just related to you, I have actually found that I have more inroads to preach the gospel when things are bad in this nation.

Anyway, I hope that makes some sense and gives you a better understanding of where I am coming from. Of course, I care for everyone in this nation, but I can only potentially reach them one person at a time.

Good night.

 

[hornetguy]

Yes, the apostles were dealing with living under "foreign" occupation and control.... as are many Christians world wide.

The difference is, we are NOT under foreign occupation.... at this time. And, it is my belief that I, as a CITIZEN of this country, am beholden to do whatever I can to KEEP it in that condition.
If you really don't care what kind of government you are under, why do you not move somewhere else? There are un-saved people everywhere.... I know the answer to this.... you don't want to give up all the "nice" things this country offers you.
And that is my point.... if you don't feel the obligation to assist in preserving it, in whatever way you can (physically, and spiritually) then you are simply a leech....
It doesn't mean you have to join the military and go to another country to "fight".... but to just sit on your backside and say "I just don't care what happens" is a slap in the face to all those who HAVE given sacrificially to try to preserve this land.... and all the good things YOU are enjoying.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Yes, the apostles were dealing with living under "foreign" occupation and control.... as are many Christians world wide.

The difference is, we are NOT under foreign occupation.... at this time. And, it is my belief that I, as a CITIZEN of this country, am beholden to do whatever I can to KEEP it in that condition.
If you really don't care what kind of government you are under, why do you not move somewhere else? There are un-saved people everywhere.... I know the answer to this.... you don't want to give up all the "nice" things this country offers you.
And that is my point.... if you don't feel the obligation to assist in preserving it, in whatever way you can (physically, and spiritually) then you are simply a leech....
It doesn't mean you have to join the military and go to another country to "fight".... but to just sit on your backside and say "I just don't care what happens" is a slap in the face to all those who HAVE given sacrificially to try to preserve this land.... and all the good things YOU are enjoying.

You should really spend some time getting right with the Lord yourself instead of bad-mouthing Christians like me.

You do not know me at all, and your comments make me feel sorry for you.

I am a leech?

Get thee behind me, Satan.

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Sit on my backside?

You ignorant fool.

I spend my life sacrificially laboring for the Lord.

The Lord rebuke you for your abysmal ignorance.

Now, go worship the American flag while I worship the Lord of the whole earth.

 

[selahsays]

I think our mission, especially in this day and age, is to fight for Jesus, who is the heart of Christianity.