Faith alone, faith plus works? Something is missing in this discussion

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NightTwister

NightTwister

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#101
Jul 5, 2023
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#101
Magenta said:
I was giving the perspective of Calvinists here. I said what I meant, though to be sure, they hold
varying views. However, I have been told that there is basically absolutely nothing required of us,
not even accepting that which God extends to us. To the point where having to accept what God
extends amounts to a work, and nullifies grace. They make themselves sound like puppets.
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That's certainly not my perspective. We could never nullify what God has done. It's the subtle but important difference between "acceptance" and "acknowledgement." Arminianism puts the cart before the horse.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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#102
Dec 18, 2021
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#102
Lamar said:
Do you not believe in apostasy???
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The mortgage was paid in full

again, why would you need to remortgage the house?

The church will apostatize as IT walks away from God and loses its way.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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#103
Dec 18, 2021
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#103
NightTwister said:
That's exactly what happens though.

Jesus paid for ALL of the sins of those who will be saved. While it was sufficient for everyone, but it's not for everyone. For those whose sins were paid for, they will believe.
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No,

He paid for the sins of the world that WHOEVER believes will not perish but has eternal life

Only those who recieve him will be saved.. He will not force anyone to believe him,
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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#104
Dec 18, 2021
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#104
NightTwister said:
That's certainly not my perspective. We could never nullify what God has done. It's the subtle but important difference between "acceptance" and "acknowledgement." Arminianism puts the cart before the horse.
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What about the non calvin/Arminian perspective? where do they fit?
 
mailmandan

mailmandan

Senior Member
#105
Apr 7, 2014
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#105
Nehemiah6 said:
That's fair enough. The Gospel does require a response -- Yea or Nay.
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Amen! Either we choose Yea to the gospel by choosing to believe the gospel and becoming saved (Romans 1:16) or else we choose Nay to the gospel by choosing not to believe the gospel and remaining lost. (2 Corinthians 4:3,4)
 
G

Gideon300

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#106
Mar 18, 2021
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#106
JohnRH said:
Started what again? Obligating Himself again, after finking on His first obligation?
You're hypothesizing.
The historical reality is that He SAID He would save people; and having said it, He obligated Himself to do exactly what He said.


Of course He doesn't owe humanity anything because He pre-paid the price. The Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world before humanity existed.

"Obligated" and "owe" aren't the same thing.
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Whatever.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#107
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#107
Gideon300 said:
A few years ago, God asked me a question. He said, "How were you saved?" I replied, "By grace". He said, "What saved you yesterday? "I thought for a moment, and said, "Grace". He said, "And what saves you today?" The answer was obvious. I am saved by grace every day. So are you.

The problem with emphasising faith is that it puts the attention on us. When we focus on the grace of God, we are looking at Jesus who loved us and gave Himself for us. Don't kid yourselves, no one has faith unless God gives it to us. Faith comes through hearing the word of Christ. (Romans 10:17). It is no coincidence when someone preaches the gospel to us. God arranges the time and place for us to hear the Word. Our part is to respond to the preaching of the gospel.

God is not obliged to save anyone. All have sinned and fall short of His glory. Yet His great love activates His grace and multitudes have been saved. Why some and not others is a mystery. That anyone is saved is a miracle.
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Yes we are saved by grace through faith. People try to work up the faith before God has done the work of grace in our hearts.

They tightly shut their eyes and clench their teeth and jump up and down and holler and shout.

Just wait upon God for the grace, He will impart the necessary faith.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#108
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#108
Lamar said:
Does my acceptance of God's grace count as a work? Or does God accept His grace for His chosen few on their behalf?
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"chosen many" God's grace is boundless, it is the folk who put faith first who limit God.

The human freewillers, the choosers [as opposed to the chosen] they limit God.

I believe in the wider mercy.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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#110
Dec 18, 2021
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#110
Evmur said:
"chosen many" God's grace is boundless, it is the folk who put faith first who limit God.

The human freewillers, the choosers [as opposed to the chosen] they limit God.

I believe in the wider mercy.
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How do they limit God? Curious about this also
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#111
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#111
Everlasting-Grace said:
Curious, How does this work?
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The hardest discipline in the Christ life. Waiting upon God. Either alone or with a few or with the congregation simply wait upon God.

People get an idea, "let's go evangelising" and they jump up at once and rush to the street corner.
 
D

DJT_47

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#112
Oct 20, 2022
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#112
Lamar said:
Do you mean: you cannot accept God's grace since that would be a work, which nullifies grace.
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Agree. His response makes no sense. Unfortunately, the vast majority are so hung up on so-called works, which terminology they don't really understand and misapply, that they end-up not obeying God's clear commands, which they erroneously label as "works", resulting in their false beliefs and as well as lost salvation.
 
Evmur

Evmur

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#113
Everlasting-Grace said:
How do they limit God? Curious about this also
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Mebbe I should write a book.

If you believe in human freewill and that man must choose ... right?

Your whole energy and thought is to make an intellectual impact or to make an appeal to the emotions, somehow you have to so totally impact the person you are preaching to move them to make a decision, a choice. And even if you succeed in impacting their mind or emotions you have then to get them to make the all important actions that will cause them to be saved.

In short you are trying to do the Holy Spirit's job for Him ... He does all that.

All God asks us to do is announce the good news.

I dunno why it started to cross through the last part. lol
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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#114
Dec 18, 2021
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#114
Evmur said:
The hardest discipline in the Christ life. Waiting upon God. Either alone or with a few or with the congregation simply wait upon God.

People get an idea, "let's go evangelising" and they jump up at once and rush to the street corner.
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but what happens if we wait on God and get hit by a car and pass away before God gives us faith?
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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#116
Dec 18, 2021
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#116
Evmur said:
Mebbe I should write a book.

If you believe in human freewill and that man must choose ... right?

Your whole energy and thought is to make an intellectual impact or to make an appeal to the emotions, somehow you have to so totally impact the person you are preaching to move them to make a decision, a choice. And even if you succeed in impacting their mind or emotions you have then to get them to make the all important actions that will cause them to be saved.

In short you are trying to do the Holy Spirit's job for Him ... He does all that.

All God asks us to do is announce the good news.

I dunno why it started to cross through the last part. lol
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But as many as have received him, to them he gave the right to become children of God..

So how am I messing with a persons emotions. It is God who draws, it is God who teaches (maybe through me0 it is the person who has to recieve the gift. or say no and move on.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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#117
Dec 18, 2021
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#117
Evmur said:
That's daft
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How is it daft?

Your saying they should wait on God and not be to hasty in making a decision.

its like water baptism, what if they get killed before they can make those decisions?
 
D

DJT_47

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#118
Oct 20, 2022
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#118
Everlasting-Grace said:
How is it daft?

Your saying they should wait on God and not be to hasty in making a decision.

its like water baptism, what if they get killed before they can make those decisions?
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That's exactly why you see baptisms in the bible done immediately. I made my decision late one night, called the preacher, the church building was opened, and I was baptized.
 
E

Everlasting-Grace

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#119
Dec 18, 2021
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#119
DJT_47 said:
That's exactly why you see baptisms in the bible done immediately. I made my decision late one night, called the preacher, the church building was opened, and I was baptized.
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it still did not save you. You were either saved before you were water baptized. or you got wet for nothing.
 
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