San Francisco and homelessness

[iamsoandso]

Whaaaa????? .

yep it's not legal in Texas to feed them thanks to Abbott so now the cities cannot have ordinances that do not agree with state law
https://www.houstonpublicmedia.org/...-despite-city-of-houstons-warning-against-it/

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

That God made wine for our enjoyment and Scripture also says not to be drunk are not in conflict.

I had cherry "wine"/ Nonalcoholic juice the other day for enjoyment.
Family, friends and church families have had punch and various juices at wedding events.
They seemed to be enjoy it too.

 

[NightTwister]

I had cherry "wine"/ Nonalcoholic juice the other day for enjoyment.
Family, friends and church families have had punch and various juices at wedding events.
They seemed to be enjoy it too.

That's nice, but your experience doesn't change the clear meaning of Scripture.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

That's nice, but your experience doesn't change the clear meaning of Scripture.

It seems that there are a lot of Catholics and Calvinists I've known that think that drunkenness is the way God makes the heart merry. Then they want to debate how much is drunk etc and nauseam. I've had a family member addicted to alcohol that you'd never know was drunk. That was not very merry having to go through that. The last friend who got married and had an open bar at his reception was so merry that we were no longer friends due to the effects of alcohol changing his personality.
The effects of pot on people make them laugh at the dumbest things. That's a form of drunkenness/ intoxication. I can't make the Bible fit those who get stoned as much as they would like to.

 

[Gideon300]

Some countries would be able to enforce alcohol bans, just not the U.S. Look at some of the Muslim countries.

Many Muslim countries have no alcohol problem because it's not available. It's against Islamic law. There is not the same prohibition against marijuana. I'd sooner live in a country with some alcohol abusers than a medieval culture that treats women like dirt and cheerfully murders anyone who turns away from Islam.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

new wine skin if not it would burst the bag when it fermented https://www.bible.com/bible/114/LUK.5.37-39.NKJV

I think jars were invented then too.
My question is not necessarily a Bible question, but thanks for the reference. My question was that same one none of the grown ups could answer at their parties as we drank when I was a kid.
Apparently bad ground water means that only alcoholic water is available. A 200 pound man requires around 100 oz of water depending.
That's a lot of wine, even if it's low alcohol level. Apparently potable water is rare, but fruit juices are more plentiful, year round at that. Since ancient people were not as knowledgeable as we modern folks about boiling, filtering, and treatment, they had to turn to alcoholic beverages. That's been the consensus at the parties with doctors, lawyers, professors and college students attending.
People were apparently incapable of producing potable water, yet juice was abundant, cheap enough to drink daily and the only way to get potable hydration.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

There's very good reasons for making wine and beer for that matter when fresh water wasn't always available. Back then storing water long term wasn't practical because it would become stagnant, but fermented drinks don't spoil. So it was a necessary at times to have beer or wine available to drink in order to stay hydrated. In short it could mean the difference between life or death.

Please see my last post to IAmsoandso, to see if I have this right.

 

[iamsoandso]

It seems that there are a lot of Catholics and Calvinists I've known that think that drunkenness is the way God makes the heart merry. Then they want to debate how much is drunk etc and nauseam. I've had a family member addicted to alcohol that you'd never know was drunk. That was not very merry having to go through that. The last friend who got married and had an open bar at his reception was so merry that we were no longer friends due to the effects of alcohol changing his personality.
The effects of pot on people make them laugh at the dumbest things. That's a form of drunkenness/ intoxication. I can't make the Bible fit those who get stoned as much as they would like to.

Yep back in 2018 when Trump signed the farm bill removing it as a controlled substance I pretty much thought the businesses were going to do strange Frankenstein stuff and it would end up bad.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1075846949427908608

 

[Tall_Timbers]

I just finished a bottle of 100% Unfermented cherry juice the other day after it was hot and humid outside. I normally have it on special occasions.
It contains No alcohol, yet made my heart glad. In my Bible, for hundreds of years the term "wine" was understood to mean fruit juice. It could either be defined as fermented OR UNfermented, depending on the context.
Most pastor's fail to teach that as with so many subjects and I had to learn that on my own. Just passing it forward. Have a good day.
🍾🙂👍

The juice wasn't fermented the first day it was made, it didn't take long however, for fermentation to turn it into an alocholic beverage. If there was any left by the end of the week, it would have had a pretty high alcohol content.

 

[iamsoandso]

I think jars were invented then too.
My question is not necessarily a Bible question, but thanks for the reference. My question was that same one none of the grown ups could answer at their parties as we drank when I was a kid.
Apparently bad ground water means that only alcoholic water is available. A 200 pound man requires around 100 oz of water depending.
That's a lot of wine, even if it's low alcohol level. Apparently potable water is rare, but fruit juices are more plentiful, year round at that. Since ancient people were not as knowledgeable as we modern folks about boiling, filtering, and treatment, they had to turn to alcoholic beverages. That's been the consensus at the parties with doctors, lawyers, professors and college students attending.
People were apparently incapable of producing potable water, yet juice was abundant, cheap enough to drink daily and the only way to get potable hydration.

lol, every time I see one of these type threads I notice they descend into a fermented verses UN-fermented debate. I guess it's sort of a thing where everyone sees a red line in the sand but everyone sees it in a different place. It's sort of like what you said about kid's verses adults and how they reason things out. If it makes sense to Christians that alcohol in beer's and wine are not good to put into our bodies why do we argue that man has no effect on the climate when we know that the animals we eat drink it and we're watering our gardens with it after we polluted it?

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

lol, every time I see one of these type threads I notice they descend into a fermented verses UN-fermented debate. I guess it's sort of a thing where everyone sees a red line in the sand but everyone sees it in a different place. It's sort of like what you said about kid's verses adults and how they reason things out. If it makes sense to Christians that alcohol in beer's and wine are not good to put into our bodies why do we argue that man has no effect on the climate when we know that the animals we eat drink it and we're watering our gardens with it after we polluted it?

There's certainly lot's of pollution that effects the water, land, sea and air. I just bought a container of Dead Sea salt for the magnesium and trace minerals. I reached to open a basement window and realize that I need it right NOW. An unusual thing just happened. My lower back just got very sore... A muscle just pressed on the sciatic bundle.
I'm glad I can lie down right now.

Anyhow, I was wondering how polluted the salt might be from the water inlets when I bought it. It's not an issue now. I haven't been taking any magnesium supplements and not enough greens I guess, so I will mix some up now, or I won't get any work done today.

Anyhow, my grandfather in Italy pruned vineyards. My uncle had one. I have a small one that will be relocated in the back yard once I remove a big maple tree. Dad taught me how to make non alcoholic wine. It's pretty simple so I think folks back in the olden days BC knew how to do it too.
When I pick a cluster of grapes and eat them fresh, it gives me a unique boost of energy and vitality that's hard to explain. Freshly made juice is definitely a lot different from the bottled as far as the way I feel after drinking it. I might try a batch of nonalcoholic kombucha in the next couple weeks.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

The juice wasn't fermented the first day it was made, it didn't take long however, for fermentation to turn it into an alocholic beverage. If there was any left by the end of the week, it would have had a pretty high alcohol content.

I agree that it's not hard to make alcoholic wine. People have been drinking it since grandpa Noah. My point yesterday is that I heard the same arguments about the necessity of alcoholic wine since I was a boy. Even then I had a problem with the reasoning. Fruit has it's season. After that, there's nothing to drink so mankind would die if restricted to wine as the only potable beverage. Everyone would die of organ failure if there was a daily consumption of that much alcohol.

Paul said to Timothy to take a little wine for your stomach's sake. My old church friends always assumed that it was alcohol that was necessary for stomach health. My pastor at the time actually said that Timothy had ulcers and so it was alcoholic wine he had to drink. He liked to brag a LOT about exogeting from the original Greek what could not be found in our pitiful English translation.
I disagreed and just know that the Bible makes sense and is true. The last thing I would drink if I had ulcers would be alcohol.

 

[ZNP]

It seems that there are a lot of Catholics and Calvinists I've known that think that drunkenness is the way God makes the heart merry. Then they want to debate how much is drunk etc and nauseam. I've had a family member addicted to alcohol that you'd never know was drunk. That was not very merry having to go through that. The last friend who got married and had an open bar at his reception was so merry that we were no longer friends due to the effects of alcohol changing his personality.
The effects of pot on people make them laugh at the dumbest things. That's a form of drunkenness/ intoxication. I can't make the Bible fit those who get stoned as much as they would like to.

Paul makes it clear that if alcohol offends my brother I will not drink alcohol.

The most important laws are to love God and to love your neighbor. If you neighbor is an alcoholic it is not an expression of love to drink alcohol in front of him.

 

[iamsoandso]

Back in line with the OP I think that if people are addicted to things like meth,cocaine ect. to a point where their homeless and living in tent cities there's really no point in feeding them the way people are trying to do it. Not that I'm meaning to just not feed them at all but the way we do it. I don't think they could ever quit the drugs their on by themselves so the states need to start loading them up on busses and taking them to rehabilitation centers and getting them off those drugs. I wouldn't do that for free I think during the day time they should take them back down to the bridges and have them pick up all the garbage like their working at a job 8 hours a day. Then go to the parks,up and down the highways ect. and clean it all back up. I think that's the only way to really help them but they probably wouldn't much like it at first,lol.

 

[Tall_Timbers]

I agree that it's not hard to make alcoholic wine.

It makes itself. Juice plus a little time, and not much time at all.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

It makes itself. Juice plus a little time, and not much time at all.

Something the grown ups never told me is what causes fermentation and what stops it.
A short boil will shut down yeast cultures and allow it to be stored on bottles, jars and any airtite receptacle for a long time. We've kept juice that's 10 times better than Welches and any store bought juice, and without the chemical preservatives.
Since the same process that causes fermentation, causes dough to rise, we always used non-fermented wine for the Lord's Supper.

 

[HealthAndHappiness]

Paul makes it clear that if alcohol offends my brother I will not drink alcohol.

The most important laws are to love God and to love your neighbor. If you neighbor is an alcoholic it is not an expression of love to drink alcohol in front of him.

I've noticed that some of the Roman and Greek Catholics I've met, learn that the person has an addiction, (like my loved one), it's a cause to insist they give them a bottle of wine or 12 pack of imports. That set things back over a decade of sobriety.

 

[Lanolin]

fermented wine is rotten wine lol

 

[Lanolin]

Prohibition did work for a while but people capitalised on it and were making moonshine in bathtubs.
However familes benefited and that was the whole point of prohibition, to stop wives and children being beaten up by drunken husbands

 

[Lanolin]

I thought this thread was meant to be about San Francisco.
If you live there, tell us what its like and can you afford a home?