The point of the forgiveness of the thief is simply that. Jesus forgave him, unspecifically, but that says it all. He forgave him of everything, past sins included. If he was forgiven, he was thereby made righteous.
Well said. In addition to that is the fact that the death of the Testator was not required for that release from the curse of the Law was already in effect before the death of Christ. If one is forgiven, then, logically, they are freed from the curse of the Law. Now, as a caveat to that, allow me to also observe one key difference between the two people...the forgiven woman was not promised to be in paradise with the Lord, but the thief was. The woman was told to sin no more, but the thief was not. We can agree about the difference between the eminence of death (seeming) difference between the two, but, then, is that really a basis for differentiation, with a full knowledge that the woman was still alive when Christ was on that cross? I'm not willing to make such a bet...since I'm not a gambler.
Likewise Jesus forgave the adulterous woman of her sins. No difference other than the thief was about to die and was promised paradise. It was all done while Jesus was alive and all while the OT was in effect, not the NT.
Yet the Testator forgave completely, freeing from the curse of that first covenant, the sins of those people while His earthly vessel was still breathing. That speaks to a mitigation to the overlap. His death seals as of no effect the doom for us all to the curse of that covenant of Law. It was a curse, given that no man could be justified by it.
Baptism or non Baptism has nothing whatsoever to do with the thief on the cross and it's only by a total misunderstanding by many that it is erroneously raised, and always as a claim that he wasn't baptized nut saved, but so what? It's a total non issue and poor arguement predicated upon ignorance of the scriptures.
I don't know that I would necessarily say that. We don't know what happened in the unseen realm inside that thief. There is so much for which all we can do is speculate, such as the seven thunders John was forbidden to write what they said, and yet not know the absolute truth of the matter, and had the Lord thought it necessary for us to know, He would have revealed it. What we DO know, after the point when He said, "It is finished," we now receive His baptism through Holy Spirit and in fire, both of which are unseen to the human eyes today.
Matthew 3:11 I indeed baptize
you with
water unto repentance: but
he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose shoes I am not worthy to bear:
he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost, and [with] fire:
Luke 3:16 John answered, saying unto [them] all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:
Here's the text below of Matthew 3:7-12 kjv.
Notice the specific words that relates explicitly to those he's talking to. Sadducees and Pharisees and "to THEM" in verse 7, "YOU to flee" in verse 7; "YOURSELVES" and "YOU" in verse 9 which is a continuation, and "YOU" in verse 11 also a continuation. Now look at verses 10 and 12. Verse 10 discusses those to be hewn down and thrown into the "fire" and verse 12 also discusses the unquenchable "fire".
I somewhat agree, and I say that because what he directed at the religious leaders was also true of others standing about who were of the same mind and spirit at hose men. As a matter of fact, what he said to them also applies today to the "religious" elite. Anyone can be religious, as you know. I don't know if you've had contact with many of them, but there are those today entangled into what is called the Hebrew Roots movement going about teaching the requirement to live the Mosaic Law today in addition to the Blood of Christ...never minding that even THEY do not live the Mosaic Law because they pick and choose what elements of that Law are valid for today...absent any authorization from even one verse in the Bible that says they can do such! Nowhere does the word of God authorize any man to cast aside anything. When Christ fulfilled the Law in order for it to be written in our hearts, the curse that characterized that Law and its requirements was nailed to that cross.
The "fire" in these 2 verses, 10 and 12, IS the fire you are referring to (erroneously) as the baptism with fire, which is not that which occurred in Acts 2 on the day of Pentecost with the "cloven tongues like as fire" (Acts 2:3), but rather the fires of hell, being inferred back to them as the generation of vipers, and relative fate of such as they were. Matthew 3:7-12 is one continuous dialog made with or addressed to Sadducees and Pharisees.
I haven't studied that particular element in depth, so I can't at this time attest to my agreement or disagreement with you on that.
MM
