Proverbs 26:4 and 26:5

[George71]

Can anyone harmonize (make sense of) Proverbs 26:4 and 26:5?

 

[Magenta]

Proverbs 26:4-5

 

[Deuteronomy]

Hey George (@George71), I think that John MacArthur gets to the heart of the matter (what Solomon was actually trying to say to us, that is), and I like what he has to say, so I'll quote his commentary for you here.

​

Proverbs 26:4-5 answer a fool: Taken together, these verses teach the appropriate way to answer a fool (e.g., an unbeliever who rejects truth). He should not be answered with agreement to his own ideas and presuppositions, or he will think that he is right (v. 4), but rather, he should be rebuked on the basis of his folly and shown the truth, so he sees how foolish he is (v. 5).​

​

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy
p.s. - and from Mark Twain, some humorous worldly wisdom that is probably true as well...............

​

Never argue with a fool, onlookers may not be able to tell the difference.​

​

Never argue with stupid people, they will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience. ​

​

 

[seekingthemindofChrist]

Proverbs 26:4-5

"Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest thou also be like unto him. Answer a fool according to his folly, lest he be wise in his own conceit."

Do not answer a fool by agreeing with his folly or foolishness, or you will be a fool just like him.

Answer a fool according to his folly, or by showing him his folly or foolishness, lest he wrongly think himself to be wise in his own conceit.

This is basically what Deuteronomy just said, and this is how I have always read and understood it too.

 

[Mem]

To see the distinction between the directives, I think the key to reconciliation is in the Hebrew word used for "lest," which is "pen" in both verses. There are two words that are translated from Hebrew to one word, "lest," in old English which essentially means perhaps. Pen means 'perhaps no' (preferably here) and the other Hebrew word also translated as "lest" is "alai," or 'perhaps yes,' but neither of these outcomes, to be like him nor that he be wise in his own eyes, is the preferred outcome so the word 'pen' is used.

Looking at it this way:

Do not answer a fool according to his folly (that) perhaps not you will be like him.
And
Answer a fool according to his folly (that) perhaps not he will be wise in his own eyes.

So, it seems that Solomon's observation is, whether you answer a fool according to his folly or we do not answer a fool according to his folly....
1) you will be like him also if you do not answer a fool according to his folly.
and'
2) he will be wise in his own eyes if you do answer a fool according to his folly.

Assuming these are opposite outcomes, let's put both outcomes in their perspective results.

Answer a fool...and: 1) you will be a fool like him and 2) he will not be wise in his own eyes.
Do not answer a fool...and: 1) you will not be a fool like him and 2) he will be wise in his own eyes.


It seems that it's best just to avoid fools.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Answer a fool...and: 1) you will be a fool like him and 2) he will not be wise in his own eyes. Do not answer a fool...and: 1) you will not be a fool like him and 2) he will be wise in his own eyes.It seems that it's best just to avoid fools.

Hi Mem, I'm not sure that I can agree with you here (about all of it anyway)

First off, it seems to me that v3 (see below) is meant to be included in this passage (v3-5), and since it tells us how a fool should be answered by us, I think that answering him/her 'properly' is what this little passage is instructing us to do.

Also, wouldn't avoiding fools (e.g. Psalm 14:1a) altogether mean losing the opportunity to share the Gospel with them? If we don't do so, then they remain (as you just pointed out above) "wise in their own eyes", and thereby, just as far (or perhaps ever farther away) from knowing the truth by which they can be saved .. e.g. Romans 10:17.

Here's the most recent NASB translation of the passage, and I believe that it can help us come to a correct understanding of what Solomon was actually getting at.

​

Proverbs 26​

3 A whip is for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, ​

And a rod for the back of fools. ​

4 Do not answer a fool according to his foolishness, ​

Or you will also be like him. ​

5 Answer a fool as his foolishness deserves, ​

So that he will not be wise in his own eyes. ​

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy

 

[Mem]

Hi Mem, I'm not sure that I can agree with you here (about all of it anyway)

First off, it seems to me that v3 (see below) is meant to be included in this passage (v3-5), and since it tells us how a fool should be answered by us, I think that answering him/her 'properly' is what this little passage is instructing us to do.

Also, wouldn't avoiding fools (e.g. Psalm 14:1a) altogether mean losing the opportunity to share the Gospel with them? If we don't do so, then they remain (as you just pointed out above) "wise in their own eyes", and thereby, just as far (or perhaps ever farther away) from knowing the truth by which they can be saved .. e.g. Romans 10:17.

Here's the most recent NASB translation of the passage, and I believe that it can help us come to a correct understanding of what Solomon was actually getting at.

​

Proverbs 26​

3 A whip is for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, ​

And a rod for the back of fools. ​

4 Do not answer a fool according to his foolishness, ​

Or you will also be like him. ​

5 Answer a fool as his foolishness deserves, ​

So that he will not be wise in his own eyes. ​

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy

Thanks, Deut! for the explanation that is probably the interpretation taken by most students of the word. I can empathize with the op's wonder at it since it would seem redundant to tell us anything that sounds somewhat like, "don't answer as a fool the same as a fool, or you will be also a fool like him." And trying to get an exact translation is complicated by there not being any perfectly exact translation possible apart from learning to speak the exact language, perfectly...when I have enough trouble perfectly understanding/translating the meanings of even a language that I've spoken my entire lifetime.
At any rate, I jumped on the thought train for the proverbial scenic view and wasn't worried as much about being right as much as opened the view up to better see what might be wrong, although not intending to derail anyone, if I might have.

Simply put, even all that, I believe the summary is, "When you see foolishness, call it out, in particular" rather than calling anyone a fool in particular. However, I may still not see that as clearly and acutely as I'd like to be sure of it.

 

[Deuteronomy]

Thanks, Deut! for the explanation that is probably the interpretation taken by most students of the word. I can empathize with the op's wonder at it since it would seem redundant to tell us anything that sounds somewhat like, "don't answer as a fool the same as a fool, or you will be also a fool like him." And trying to get an exact translation is complicated by there not being any perfectly exact translation possible apart from learning to speak the exact language, perfectly...when I have enough trouble perfectly understanding/translating the meanings of even a language that I've spoken my entire lifetime.
At any rate, I jumped on the thought train for the proverbial scenic view and wasn't worried as much about being right as much as opened the view up to better see what might be wrong, although not intending to derail anyone, if I might have.

Simply put, even all that, I believe the summary is, "When you see foolishness, call it out, in particular" rather than calling anyone a fool in particular. However, I may still not see that as clearly and acutely as I'd like to be sure of it.

Hello again Mem, I liked what you had to say in your original post, even though, as I said, I wasn't sure that I could agree with you about all of it.

Proverbs is a VERY interesting Book, isn't it, with a large amount of wisdom that is useful for all of us to know (and practical for us to live by). That said, there's also some pretty crazy sounding, er, interesting sounding things in parts of it, so I like the fact that you took us all for a ride on the "thought train" to see if things could/should be viewed in a different way/from a different angle in the little passage that @George71 has us looking at

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy

 

[Edify]

Can anyone harmonize (make sense of) Proverbs 26:4 and 26:5?

The Nas:
4Do not answer a fool according to his foolishness,
Or you will also be like him.
5Answer a fool as his foolishness deserves,
So that he will not be wise in his own eyes.

Always check the different translations to help find the answer, making sure they agree.

 

[George71]

Hi Mem, I'm not sure that I can agree with you here (about all of it anyway)

First off, it seems to me that v3 (see below) is meant to be included in this passage (v3-5), and since it tells us how a fool should be answered by us, I think that answering him/her 'properly' is what this little passage is instructing us to do.

Also, wouldn't avoiding fools (e.g. Psalm 14:1a) altogether mean losing the opportunity to share the Gospel with them? If we don't do so, then they remain (as you just pointed out above) "wise in their own eyes", and thereby, just as far (or perhaps ever farther away) from knowing the truth by which they can be saved .. e.g. Romans 10:17.

Here's the most recent NASB translation of the passage, and I believe that it can help us come to a correct understanding of what Solomon was actually getting at.

​

Proverbs 26​

3 A whip is for the horse, a bridle for the donkey, ​

And a rod for the back of fools. ​

4 Do not answer a fool according to his foolishness, ​

Or you will also be like him. ​

5 Answer a fool as his foolishness deserves, ​

So that he will not be wise in his own eyes. ​

God bless you!!

~Deuteronomy

Thank you for both your initial response and this one, which bring clarity to my inquiry

 

[George71]

The Nas:
4Do not answer a fool according to his foolishness,
Or you will also be like him.
5Answer a fool as his foolishness deserves,
So that he will not be wise in his own eyes.

Always check the different translations to help find the answer, making sure they agree.

Thank you for taking the time to respond. And yes I should have looked further into the different translations.

 

[George71]

Thanks, Deut! for the explanation that is probably the interpretation taken by most students of the word. I can empathize with the op's wonder at it since it would seem redundant to tell us anything that sounds somewhat like, "don't answer as a fool the same as a fool, or you will be also a fool like him." And trying to get an exact translation is complicated by there not being any perfectly exact translation possible apart from learning to speak the exact language, perfectly...when I have enough trouble perfectly understanding/translating the meanings of even a language that I've spoken my entire lifetime.
At any rate, I jumped on the thought train for the proverbial scenic view and wasn't worried as much about being right as much as opened the view up to better see what might be wrong, although not intending to derail anyone, if I might have.

Simply put, even all that, I believe the summary is, "When you see foolishness, call it out, in particular" rather than calling anyone a fool in particular. However, I may still not see that as clearly and acutely as I'd like to be sure of it.

Do I dare respond to such proficiency? My compliments to the chef, a veritable feast of words