There will be no Rapture!!!

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,020
1,268
113
Daniel 9:27 KJV
And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.

It’s a Hebrew week of years, there
is a 3 1/2 year period before
the last 3 1/2 years.

It used to be that but Christ said the length had been shortened. It is no longer a week of years but half that. It is only 42 months long now in entirety.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,020
1,268
113
How do you interpret Luke 12:36-37,38,40 and context, where v.36 states, "when he will RETURN from the wedding..." THEN "the meal" [G347; same word used in Matt8:11 referring to the earthly MK age]"

The faithful in that parable are not the bride and aren't getting married.

Luk 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
Luk 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.

This is a story that takes place AFTER A WEDDING, not before one.

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

This is a story that takes place BEFORE A WEDDING.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
Sacrifice ceased in the first century.
Here is something to think about buddy. Something you have doubtless never encountered yet.

Remember Goliath? Well he was a type of the FUTURE anti-Christ.

Goliath - demonic Nephilim
AC - the "Satan/man" (as opposed to the "God/Man" Jesus Christ).
Goliath - deadly head wound
AC - deadly head wound
Goliath - blasphemer of God
AC - blasphemer of God
Goliath - "unbeatable" man of war
AC - "unbeatable" man of war
Goliath - effortlessly miraculously defeated by the shepherd of Israel David
AC - effortlessly miraculously defeated by the Shepherd of Israel Jesus Christ

BTW....just to let you know, "Golgotha" (place of the skull!)is the EXACT SPOT that Christ CHOSE to give up His life.
Why pray tell?

Because that exact spot is where David buried the head of Goliath. Get it? Christ victorious over the serpent and the seed of the serpent?

1Sa 17:54
And David took the head of the Philistine and brought it to Jerusalem, but he put his armor in his tent.

Gen 3:15
And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

And something else you did not know: the etymology of term "Golgotha" is quite clear. GOL of GATH......GOLIATH is the origin.
Goliath's name literally means GOL of GATH.

So....for all of the prophecy naysayers out there that deny the FUTURE 70th week Second Coming pattern, I would advise you to educate yourself and reconsider. Same goes for those who deny the pre-trib rapture. It all flows together seamlessly. There is no other option.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
Doubtful. But that isn't the point. The ending of the sacrifices is what determines the time reference.
AC - the "Satan/man" (as opposed to the "God/Man" Jesus Christ)

Question: has the "Satan/man" ever been revealed in all of Biblical history?
Answer: only once......SO FAR......as Judas.

Did the 1st century Judas fulfill all end-time prophecy? No, he did not.
Why? Because the one and only FUTURE "Satan/man" will be the one who will do so.

Time to up your game buddy. Ignoring prophecy is a recipe for disaster.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
5,020
1,268
113
Goliath - deadly head wound
AC - deadly head wound

The bible never says the AC receives a head wound. The only head wound is to one of the 7 mountains of the Rev 13:1 beast kingdom. The AC is not a mountain but is the second beast with an unharmed head.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
The bible never says the AC receives a head wound. The only head wound is to one of the 7 mountains of the Rev 13:1 beast kingdom. The AC is not a mountain but is the second beast with an unharmed head.
Tell me you are kidding buddy. PLEASE.
Beast = AC "Satan/man".


Rev 13:3
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Rev 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Rev 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Rev 13:14
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Rev 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
Tell me you are kidding buddy. PLEASE.
Beast = AC "Satan/man".


Rev 13:3
And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

Rev 13:4
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
Rev 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

Rev 13:12
And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed.

Rev 13:14
And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

Rev 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Rev 13:5
And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,312
3,618
113
By my reckoning it's nearly impossible to say who the "Antichrist" is. The word is only found in 1 John and 2 John and isn't identified with any particular person.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
The faithful in that parable are not the bride and aren't getting married.

Luk 12:36 And ye yourselves like unto men that wait for their lord, when he will return from the wedding; that when he cometh and knocketh, they may open unto him immediately.
Luk 12:37 Blessed are those servants, whom the lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them.
This is a story that takes place AFTER A WEDDING, not before one.
Glad to hear you acknowledge this. = )

The word for "wedding" here is "G1062 - gamos"... the same word that is used in your example below (Matt25:10).

Mat 25:10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
Mat 25:11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
This is a story that takes place BEFORE A WEDDING.
Again, the same word "G1062 - gamos" is used in both passages.



So, how can one determine whether a passage is speaking of the setting of the "meal" (with "guests" etc) or a setting of the union of two persons as a marriage?

Consider the word "G1062" used in the following passages also:

Matthew 22:10 Parallel: So those servants went out into the highways, and gathered together all as many as they found, both bad and good: and the wedding was furnished with guests. (biblehub.com) ["wedding [G1062]"-kjv... but "wedding-feast / wedding-hall" in many other versions: https://biblehub.com/parallel/matthew/22-10.htm ].

We can tell it means "wedding-FEAST," here, because the "guests [/'ones reclining (at a meal)'] are present in the context;

Same for John 2, the wedding-feast [G1062] at Cana, where the scene shows many guests in attendance, and a "G755 - architriklinos " in vv.8,9.

In the case of Matthew 25:10, there are TEN VIRGINS, and the FIVE wise VIRGINS are who enter.

But Jesus is NOT coming (in this scene) for the purpose of MARRYING these virgins. He's not marrying plural virgins. This is the wedding-feast / wedding-banquet / wedding-festivities... aka the earthly MK age.


2Cor11:2 makes it clear (as does Rev19:7, distinct from v.9), by its wording:

Berean Literal Bible
For I am jealous as to you [plur.; corporate 'you'] with the jealousy of God. For I have betrothed you [pl.; corporate 'you'] to one husband, to present a pure virgin [singular] to Christ.

King James Bible
For I am jealous over you [plur.; corporate 'you'] with godly jealousy: for I have espoused you [plur.; corporate 'you'] to one husband, that I may present you as [understood 'you'] a chaste virgin [singular] to Christ.

He is "marrying" ONE virgin.

Not five.

There is no "bride / wife [singular]" being spoken of in the Matt25 passage, because it is not a passage about a "marriage," but the "marriage-feast/supper" (aka the earthly MK age, and their entrance into it upon His RETURN to the earth, just as in the Lk12 passage and others). Again, the same "G1062" word is used in both passages. Context determines which meaning... and by its saying "5 virgins," it clearly is not the ONE He is "MARRYING"
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
By my reckoning it's nearly impossible to say who the "Antichrist" is.
When the "Satan/man" is "revealed" (1st seal)......."almost!" EVERYBODY is going to "say who the Antichrist" is.

And not only that, those who DO NOT SAY who the anti-Christ is will be summarily executed. These are they who are not deceived and do not worship the AC. Tribulation saints. There will be anointed Jews and believing Jews at that time also who do not worship the beast.

Fortunately, we the Church suffer no such trauma, nor do we "go rogue" and worship other gods.
We will not be around for the 70th week, a week which is unequivocally prescribed for the sake of Israel and its final redemption.
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
856
286
63
There will be no pre or mid tribulation rapture. This is an invention of the dispensationalists. The Pre-Rapture was invented by the dispensationalist John Darby in the 19th century. It did not exist before that. Church history did not know a Pre-Rapture before the 19th century.

The Bible clearly states that Christians must go through the Tribulation, for Revelation 20:4 describes how Christians will be beheaded for their faith during the Tribulation. If there really was a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, then logically there would be no Christians in the Tribulation, but because there will be Christians in the Tribulation, that means there will be no Pre-Tribulation Rapture! Revelation 13:7 also declares that Christians will be given into the hand of the Antichrist, which means the Antichrist may overcome Christians and kill them.

Jesus will return only once and that is after the tribulation. Then he will gather all Christians.
God is love and He will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him.

So He is giving the world 7 years to have their way but the deception happened before that time, and causing all people that do not love Him to follow the antichrist, and when they take his mark then salvation is no longer available to the world, and He can end sin on earth.

This shall happen because of the new age movement which the New Age Christ is the antichrist(1 Timothy 4:1-5; 2 Timothy 4:2-4).

Paul said let no person deceive you by any means for the resurrection of the saints shall not happen until there is a falling away first, and the man of sin claims to be God which happens in the middle of the 7 years period.

When the New Age Christ establishes peace in the Middle East he will be considered a great man of peace, and the biggest player on the world scene, and he will push the agenda of the new age movement to change the current belief system of the world to the new age movement belief system, and will have the support of the nations governments as they are together to work for peace on earth.

The falling away first is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel which they stopped the preaching of the Gospel, and the belief in a God, and nothing can be taught contrary to the new age movement for they will say it is a hate crime, and it is not the truth.

At the end of the first three and one half years the falling away happened which is when the transgressors are come to the full

Then God will give the world the New Age Christ to rule over them which war breaks out in heaven, and the devils are cast to earth, and Satan appears as the New Age Christ, and the devils deceive all people who do not love the truth but have pleasure in unrighteousness which is the strong delusion He will give them.

Then the saints can be caught up to heaven but the beast makes war against the saints, and prevails against them, and they are given in to his hands for three and one half years, and when they shall have scattered the power of the holy people then all things are finished.

Then comes the end when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, and shall put down the world.

So the saints are going through the last three and one half years.

The first three and one half years salvation is still available to the world so the saints shall remain on earth to represent the truth.

When the beast claims to be God he blasphemes against God and His tabernacle which he would not have to do that if the saints were not still on earth which he tries to convince the world that the Christian religion is false, and there is no God.

Then those that go along with the beast will take his mark which they will then have the nature of a devil, and they will go against all people who oppose them which there is no middle ground but they are either of the world or a saint of God.

The saints shall go through the 7 years period but the tribulation is for the last three and one half years.

There will be a resurrection of the saints after the 7 years period because when Jesus comes back to fight at the battle of Armageddon all the saints are with Him so they had to be caught up to come back with Him.

The saints will be caught up after the 7 years period, and then the wrath of God will be poured upon the earth, and Jesus comes back with all the saints at the battle of Armageddon the 6th vial of the wrath of God.

There is no resurrection before the 7 years period, and not in the middle of it.

Some people will say but God will not allow the saints to go through the tribulation, but the tribulation is not for the world but for the saints.

Also saints have been persecuted for years which Jesus said they would suffer persecution, and be killed all the day long, and counted as sheep for the slaughter.

If God would not allow the saints to be persecuted during the 7 years period mainly the last three and one half years He would of not allowed the saints to be persecuted at all for persecution is persecution, and no different in the 7 years period but on a bigger level for it entails the world persecuting the Christians.

It could be that God is love and loves the world so He will not put them down until they persecute the Christians showing they want nothing to do with the Christian religion, and nothing to do with Israel for they attack the Hebrews which is the battle of Armageddon, and Jesus saves the Jews.

Then there can be no excuse for their actions for they showed they wanted nothing to do with the truth.

2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

When the resurrection does not happen before the 7 years period it will over throw the faith of some people and they will follow the new age movement interpretation of the Bible, or believe the Bible is not true.

The saints will not be resurrected until the 7 years period is over.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
God is love and He will not give up on the world until the world gives up on Him.

So He is giving the world 7 years to have their way but the deception happened before that time, and causing all people that do not love Him to follow the antichrist, and when they take his mark then salvation is no longer available to the world, and He can end sin on earth.

This shall happen because of the new age movement which the New Age Christ is the antichrist(1 Timothy 4:1-5; 2 Timothy 4:2-4).

Paul said let no person deceive you by any means for the resurrection of the saints shall not happen until there is a falling away first, and the man of sin claims to be God which happens in the middle of the 7 years period.

When the New Age Christ establishes peace in the Middle East he will be considered a great man of peace, and the biggest player on the world scene, and he will push the agenda of the new age movement to change the current belief system of the world to the new age movement belief system, and will have the support of the nations governments as they are together to work for peace on earth.

The falling away first is the condition of the world in response to the Gospel which they stopped the preaching of the Gospel, and the belief in a God, and nothing can be taught contrary to the new age movement for they will say it is a hate crime, and it is not the truth.

At the end of the first three and one half years the falling away happened which is when the transgressors are come to the full

Then God will give the world the New Age Christ to rule over them which war breaks out in heaven, and the devils are cast to earth, and Satan appears as the New Age Christ, and the devils deceive all people who do not love the truth but have pleasure in unrighteousness which is the strong delusion He will give them.

Then the saints can be caught up to heaven but the beast makes war against the saints, and prevails against them, and they are given in to his hands for three and one half years, and when they shall have scattered the power of the holy people then all things are finished.

Then comes the end when the Son shall deliver up the kingdom to the Father, and shall put down the world.

So the saints are going through the last three and one half years.

The first three and one half years salvation is still available to the world so the saints shall remain on earth to represent the truth.

When the beast claims to be God he blasphemes against God and His tabernacle which he would not have to do that if the saints were not still on earth which he tries to convince the world that the Christian religion is false, and there is no God.

Then those that go along with the beast will take his mark which they will then have the nature of a devil, and they will go against all people who oppose them which there is no middle ground but they are either of the world or a saint of God.

The saints shall go through the 7 years period but the tribulation is for the last three and one half years.

There will be a resurrection of the saints after the 7 years period because when Jesus comes back to fight at the battle of Armageddon all the saints are with Him so they had to be caught up to come back with Him.

The saints will be caught up after the 7 years period, and then the wrath of God will be poured upon the earth, and Jesus comes back with all the saints at the battle of Armageddon the 6th vial of the wrath of God.

There is no resurrection before the 7 years period, and not in the middle of it.

Some people will say but God will not allow the saints to go through the tribulation, but the tribulation is not for the world but for the saints.

Also saints have been persecuted for years which Jesus said they would suffer persecution, and be killed all the day long, and counted as sheep for the slaughter.

If God would not allow the saints to be persecuted during the 7 years period mainly the last three and one half years He would of not allowed the saints to be persecuted at all for persecution is persecution, and no different in the 7 years period but on a bigger level for it entails the world persecuting the Christians.

It could be that God is love and loves the world so He will not put them down until they persecute the Christians showing they want nothing to do with the Christian religion, and nothing to do with Israel for they attack the Hebrews which is the battle of Armageddon, and Jesus saves the Jews.

Then there can be no excuse for their actions for they showed they wanted nothing to do with the truth.

2Ti 2:16 But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness.
2Ti 2:17 And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus;
2Ti 2:18 Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

When the resurrection does not happen before the 7 years period it will over throw the faith of some people and they will follow the new age movement interpretation of the Bible, or believe the Bible is not true.

The saints will not be resurrected until the 7 years period is over.
No post tribber has ever won in a pre-trib debate in the history of CC.
And never will. For obvious reasons.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,887
2,113
113
Paul said let no person deceive you by any means for the resurrection of the saints shall not happen until there is a falling away first, and the man of sin claims to be God which happens in the middle of the 7 years period.
Actually, what Paul is conveying is that, the Day of the Lord [the trib] v.2 will not be present "if not shall have come the departure [/a standing away, but with the definite article 'the'] FIRST, and the man of sin BE REVEALED..."; he is "revealed" at Seal #1 / the START of the Trib, aka the INITIAL "birth pang" (per Paul's words in 1Th5:1-3), which is the first one of "the beginning of birth pangs [plur.]" that Jesus had spoken of in His Olivet Discourse (which occurs well before the MID-point when 2Th2:4b takes place), that is, Matt24:4 / Mk13:5 "A CERTAIN ONE [G5100]" (bringing deception; this is the AC / man of sin / rider of the wht horse WITH A "BOW"/"deception")
 
Aug 27, 2023
823
211
43
The Jews' God
By Eddie Kadach

Isn't the "Jewish" god the God of the Old Testament? Isn't this why we refer to the popular belief in Christ as the Judeo-Christian religion?
Rabbi Ben Zion Bokser wrote in "Judaism and the Christian Predicament" (New York: Alfred A. Knopf, 1967) p. 59:
"This is not an uncommon impression and one finds it sometimes among Jews as well as Christians - that Judaism is the religion of the Hebrew Bible. It is, of course, a fallacious impression. Judaism is not the religion of the Bible."
Rabbi Moshe M. Maggal, wrote:
"...you will notice the great difference between the Jewish and Christian religions. But these are not all. We consider the two religions so different that one excludes the other. ...we emphasized that there is no such thing as a Judeo-Christian religion. There is not any similarity between the two concepts." [Rabbi Maggal (President, National Jewish Information Service) letter, 21 August 1961.]
So what is the nature of the "Jewish" god?
It is not the God of the Hebrew Bible as we have just seen by their own admission. They have no need of the concept of God as they have "killed off God" a long time ago, as James Yaffe comments:
And so it seems we must agree with Rabbi Richard Israel, who writes in Commentary's symposium on Jewish belief, "[The current discussion on] the Death of God will cause Jews to ask, `So what else is new?' The Jewish funeral was a much more private affair. We buried him quietly and in the middle of the night.'" [James Yaffe, "The American Jews" (New York: Random House, 1968), pg. 161]
James Yaffe's statement was a comment to a statement made by Rabbi Sherwin Wine of the Birmingham Temple:
"...the whole concept of God is outdated; Judaism can function perfectly well without it."
If the self-styled "Jews" have "killed off God", then what sort of "god" do they have? The Jewish God is the "Jew" as the Jewish Cabala (Kabbalah) puts it:
"The Jew is the living God, God incarnate: he is the heavenly man. The other men are earthly, of inferior race. They exist only to serve the Jew. They are the cattle seed."
In the following quote we begin to understand this "Jewish" idea of their "god" a little better as it is applied more directly to today:
"The Jewish people as a whole will be its own Messiah. It will attain world dominion by the dissolution of other races, by the abolition of frontiers, the annihilation of monarchy, and by the establishment of a world republic in which the Jews will everywhere exercise the privilege of citizenship. In this "new world order" the children of Israel will furnish all the leaders without encountering opposition. The Governments of the different peoples forming the world republic will fall without difficulty into the hands of the Jews. It will then be possible for the Jewish rulers to abolish private property, and everywhere to make use of the resources of the state. Thus will the promise of the Talmud be fulfilled, in which is said that when the Messianic time is come, the Jews will have all the property of the whole world in their hands." - Baruch Levy, Letter to Karl Marx, `La Revue de Paris', p. 574, June 1, 1928
 
Aug 27, 2023
823
211
43
The American people have been led to believe that Jews are "God's chosen people." This myth was started by a small group of Jews. A few Jewish leaders took excerpts from the Bible and interpreted them to mean that God designated them as "chosen people."
"Leading the cry, `We are God's Chosen People,' are the Zionist/Marxist (Ashkenazi) Jews who for political purposes chose Judaism and who don't have a drop of biblical Jewish blood in them. "The Judeo-Christian ethic we hear so much about in America is a big joke - the result of an intense Zionist propaganda campaign.
"I'll toss in one last thought about the `God's chosen people' myth: God said, `Beware of those who call themselves Jews and are not, for they lie.' Could it be the Ashkenazi Jews are the people to whom God was referring?" - Jack Bernstein, The Life of an American Jew in Racist Marxist Israel (California: The Noontide Press, 1984) [WBSG NOTE: Excellent book!]
Are modern Jews Israelites? Are they Hebrews? In their own writings these self-styled "Jews" tell us it is incorrect to call a contemporary "Jew" an "Israelite" or a "Hebrew." Under the heading "A Brief History of the Terms for Jew," in the 1980 Jewish Almanac, is the following:
"Strictly speaking it is incorrect to call an ancient Israelite a "Jew" or to call a contemporary Jew an Israelite or a Hebrew." - 1980 Jewish Almanac, P.3
Judaism or Pharisaism? In "The Pharisees, The Sociological Background of Their Faith," Rabbi Louis Finkelstein describes these self-styled "Jews" and their origins:
"Pharisaism became Talmudism, Talmudism became Medieval Rabbinism, and Medieval Rabbinism became Modern Rabbinism. But throughout these changes in name the spirit of the ancient Pharisee survives unaltered. When the Jew studies the Talmud, he is actually repeating the arguments used in the Palestinian academies."
"...rabbinic Judaism, the first-born child of Pharisaism, remains a unit until this day." (p.XXI of Forward to 1st Edition, "The Pharisees," Vol. 1, Philadelphia: The Jewish Publication Society of America, 1938 & Vol. 2, p. 622
Jesus had quite a verbal scathing for the Pharisees in Matthew 23. He exposed them for the sort of people they were:
"Hypocrites," "sons of hell," "blind guides," "fools," "full of robbery and self-indulgence," "whitewashed tombs full of dead men's bones and all uncleanness," "full of hypocrisy and lawlessness," "partners with them in shedding the blood of the prophets," and "serpents and brood of vipers."
Not quite an endorsement by the Christian Savior. And some fools have the gall, or should we say "chutzpah," to call Jesus a "Jew!" What blasphemy!
If modern Jews are not descendants of the original Israelites, who are they? Professor of Medieval Jewish History, Abraham N. Poliak of Tel Aviv University, has stated:
"The large majority of world Jewry is descended from the Jews of Khazaria." (The Thirteenth Tribe by Arthur Koestler (New York: Random House, 1976) p.226)
The people living in Palestine in the 20th century have no racial nor historic connection with Palestine and are, in reality, descendants from a Turko-Mongolian tribal people who created a kingdom called Khazaria which existed until the 10th century. These Khazarian "Jews" could just as easily have practiced Christianity, but for whatever reason they chose Judaism (Talmudic Pharisaism) and there is nothing that can be done about it.
Obviously, if these people have no racial, or historic connection with Palestine they have no claim to the promises made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob/Israel or the land known as "Israel" (Palestine) today. If this is true then there should be more evidence to support this position, and there is. The American People's Encyclopedia for 1964 at 15-292 records the following reference to Khazars:
"In the year 740 [a.d.] the Khazars were officially converted to Judaism. A century later they were cursed by the in-coming Slavic- speaking people and were scattered over central Europe where they were known as Jews. It is from this grouping that most German and Polish Jews are descended, and they likewise make up a considerable part of that population now found in America. The term Aschenazim is now applied to this division."
Alfred Lilienthal writes, in "What Price Israel" (Henry Regenery Co., 1953):
"Perhaps the most significant mass conversion to the Judaic Faith occurred in Europe, in the 8th century A.D., and that story of the Khazars (Turko-Finnish people) is quite pertinent to the establishment of the modern state of Israel." Again, "That the Khazars are the lineal ancestors of Eastern European Jewry is a historical fact. Jewish historians and religious textbooks acknowledge the fact, though the propagandists of Jewish nationalism belittle it as pro-Arab propaganda."
Arthur Koestler's book "The Thirteenth Tribe" (New York: Random House, Inc., 1976) blew the lid off this suppressed fact. Koestler notes:
"In the 1960's, the number of the Sephardim was estimated at 500,000. The Ashkenazim, at the same period, numbered about eleven million. Thus in common parlance, Jew is synonymous with Ashkenazi Jew."
He further states:
"For the sake of piquantry it should be mentioned that the Ashkenaz of the Bible refers to a people living somewhere in the vicinity of Mount Ararat and Armenia. The name occurs in Genesis 10:3 and 1 Chronicles 1:6 as one of the sons of Gomer, who was a son of Japheth. Ashkenaz is also a brother of Togarmah (and a nephew of Magog) whom the Khazars, according to King Joseph, claimed as their ancestor."
Koestler further quotes an early source indicating that the Khazars had some connection with Gog of the land of Magog.
"At some date earlier than 864, the Westphalian monk, Christian Druthmar of Acquitania, wrote a Latin treatise `Esposito in Evangelium Mattei,' in which he reported that `there exist people under the sky in regions where no Christian can be found, whose name is Gog and Magog, and who are Huns; among them is one, called the Gazari (Khazars) who are circumcised and observe Judaism in its entirety."
For those interested in Bible prophecy, the implications of this last sentence are staggering. Read Genesis 10:2-3 to see from whom Ashkenaz descended; notice who his relatives are. Then read Ezekiel 38 & 39. Jewish author Alfred Lilienthal further stated:
"These Ashkenazim Jews have little or no trace of Semitic blood." - p. 222, "What Price Israel."
This is now understandable from what Koestler revealed. The Jews fully understand their Khazarian heritage as the third edition of the Jewish Encyclopedia for 1925 records:
"Chazars: a people of Turkish origin whose life and history are interwoven with the very beginnings of the history of the Jews of Russia." - The Jewish Encyclopedia, Third Edition, 1925.
 
Aug 27, 2023
823
211
43
Let me add this just to dispel any remaining doubts about the role of Israel as it relates to the Church:

Ruth makes the decision to cling to Naomi and abandon her people and gods.
Ruth (a gentile Moabitess) learns about Boaz (the kinsman redeemer) from Naomi (a Jewess).
Ruth (displaying chaste conduct) marries Boaz, from which lineage Christ is born.

Boaz = Christ
Naomi = Israel
Ruth = gentile Church

Yea......its all there friend. You ought to learn as much about the Jews and Israel as you possibly can.
Yes it is all there.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
23,004
8,373
113
Whether you realize it or not, all of the foregoing completely trashes your posts #337 & #338.

Israel (the sons of Jacob) IS chosen by God. Yes they broke the covenant, but they will inevitably fulfill their original mandate. Faithfully and with a whole heart. After the 70th week redemption occurs of course.

The various opinions of present day secular Jews is......meaningless and irrelevant as far as Biblical truth and prophecy is concerned.
Their unbelief is only temporary after all.
 

JTB

Well-known member
Aug 31, 2021
2,256
733
113
No post tribber has ever won in a pre-trib debate in the history of CC.
And never will. For obvious reasons.
It is not a contest to be 'won'.

It is a warning to be heeded.