There will be no Rapture!!!

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DRobinson

Active member
Aug 23, 2023
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And the pre-tribber victory. As always. Thanks to you buddy.

Pre-tribbers still batting 1000. That is quite a winning streak.
I did not say you are right because you are wrong.
You win only in your own mind. You are on the wrong side of this discussion as most are.
You have been deceived by false teachers to the point you will never see the truth.
Paul and Jesus said this would happen and is a sign that the end was near.
I really worry what people like you will do if you are still alive when the man of sin comes for you.
I pity you. And I will pray God opens your eyes.
Good by.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,539
8,105
113
I did not say you are right because you are wrong.
You win only in your own mind. You are on the wrong side of this discussion as most are.
You have been deceived by false teachers to the point you will never see the truth.
Paul and Jesus said this would happen and is a sign that the end was near.
I really worry what people like you will do if you are still alive when the man of sin comes for you.
I pity you. And I will pray God opens your eyes.
Good by.
Thanks buddy.

Sorry I cannot come over to your "side" until you successfully refute @TheDivineWatermark s many fine exegetical treatments.

But I will make sure to keep monitoring your frequency.

Stay safe buddy.
 
Aug 25, 2023
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The word of God declares that there will be a rapture of the church. All that are saved at that time will be “caught up” to meet the Lord Jesus Christ is the air. They will be then taken to heaven during the almost 7-year tribulation which tries all “that dwell upon the earth”.

Because thou hast kept the word of my patience, I also will keep thee from the hour of temptation, which shall come upon all the world, to try them that dwell upon the earth.- - Rev 3:10

Paul wrote about the rapture in 1 Thessalonians. Paul also wrote:

Consider what I say; and the Lord give thee understanding in all things. – 2 Timothy 2:7

13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words. - 1 Thess 4:13-18

This rapture of the church is referenced several times by Jesus Christ the Lord. As it says in Revelation 19:10.

And I fell at his feet to worship him. And he said unto me, See thou do it not: I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren that have the testimony of Jesus: worship God: for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

Now the Bible tells us how to read the word of God. One of those passages is in Isaiah 28, where correct precepts (“precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept”), combined with handling context correctly “line upon line, line upon line”) leads to correct doctrine. These passages are scattered throughout the word of God (‘here a little, and there a little”). Of course some groups have false precepts, bad context handling and strain at gnats (verse 13)

9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts. 10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little: 11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. 12 To whom he said, This is the rest wherewith ye may cause the weary to rest; and this is the refreshing: yet they would not hear. 13 But the word of the Lord was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken. – Isaiah 28:9-13

Here is Jesus Christ speaking about the rapture of the church prior to the tribulation in the next 6 passages.

1 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.
2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.
3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:
4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.
10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.
11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.
12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.
13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh. - Matt 25:1-4,10--13

40 Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
41 Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.
42 Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. - Matthew 24:40-42

34 I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. 35 Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. 36 Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. - Luke 17:34-36

11 And when the king came in to see the guests, he saw there a man which had not on a wedding garment:12 And he saith unto him, Friend, how camest thou in hither not having a wedding garment? And he was speechless. 13 Then said the king to the servants, Bind him hand and foot, and take him away, and cast him into outer darkness, there shall be weeping and gnashing of teeth. – Matthew 22:11-13

When once the master of the house is risen up, and hath shut to the door, and ye begin to stand without, and to knock at the door, saying, Lord, Lord, open unto us; and he shall answer and say unto you, I know you not whence ye are – Luke 13:25

Please note the few that were saved in the ark (in Christ) went up. Those left behind are destroyed.

26 And as it was in the days of Noe, so shall it be also in the days of the Son of man. 27 They did eat, they drank, they married wives, they were given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark, and the flood came, and destroyed them all. – Luke 17:26-27

Now after the wedding in heaven, where the raptured and those that died in Christ prior to rapture are at, Jesus Christ comes back at the second coming with all his holy angles and all his saints.

11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: 16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, King Of Kings, And Lord Of Lords. – Rev 19:11-16

7 And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels,8 In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;10 When he shall come to be glorified in his saints, and to be admired in all them that believe (because our testimony among you was believed) in that day. – 2 Thess 2:1-10

To the end he may stablish your hearts unblameable in holiness before God, even our Father, at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ with all his saints. – 1 Thess 3:13

The rapture is also prefigured in Enoch being taken by God because he pleased God as well as Job who sees God in his flesh at the end of the first Gentiles age.

There are more passages in scripture which talk about the rapture. In the next passage, there are many that buy into the offer of peace from those that do not have peaceful intentions. They will not escape, but the saved escape at rapture.

For when they shall say, Peace and safety; then sudden destruction cometh upon them, as travail upon a woman with child; and they shall not escape. – 1 Thess 5:3

The following also refer to the rapture of the church.

Remember therefore how thou hast received and heard, and hold fast, and repent. If therefore thou shalt not watch, I will come on thee as a thief, and thou shalt not know what hour I will come upon thee. – Rev 3:3

So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. – Rev 3:16

Revelation is of course a big clue. Who are all those people in heaven from Revelation 4 through 19?

Also please note that the church is not mentioned in scripture after Revelation 3 except the one reference in Revelation 22 which refers back to Revelation 1.

Also please note that Paul, the apostle of the Gentiles, does not warn the saved Gentiles about the mark of the beast which occurs during the tribulation. In fact, Paul tells them not to be worried about that.

9 For God hath not appointed us to wrath, but to obtain salvation by our Lord Jesus Christ,10 Who died for us, that, whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with him.11 Wherefore comfort yourselves together, and edify one another, even as also ye do. – 1 Thess 5:9-11

1 Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,2 That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; - 2 Thess 2:1-3

Now the doctrine of the rapture is not essential to salvation. No one ever preached that when preaching the gospel of Christ. Many learn of it after salvation. Many see evidence for the 2nd coming and associate rapture passages with that event.

So, if you do not believe in the rapture maybe you will not be raptured. For us who are convinced, we will be raptured.
 
W

WMarkB

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This thread needs deleted
 
Jun 20, 2022
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Divine Watermark, is using someone's "personal opinion," or better known as "Lexicon's" and in no shape or form is anywhere close to proving pre-trib Rapture.

not when Paul himself, and says he get's everything he writes from Jesus Himself, that chain of Events that factually happen will be:

1. the AC is Revealed
2. Jesus Returns
3. We are GATHERED to meet Him

2 Now concerning (2) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and (3) our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,

3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, (1) and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction

Order of Events:
(1) and the man of lawlessness is revealed
(2) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
(3)
our being gathered together to him

That is 100% AFTER MID TRIBULATION!

to deny what Paul wrote here is to call JESUS a LIAR!
 
Jun 20, 2022
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let's be honest and real here. the only TRUE HOUR we could ever face, since we are Victorious in Christ, is the Hour when the AC is revealed. But Jesus Returns and we are gathered and escape that hour. Compared to that HOUR, anything else we've ever faced or will won't ever compare. So, we are saved from that hour, the hour when the AC destroys humanity. but that "HOUR" won't take place until Mid-Tribulation. We have to survive everything else till then.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
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2 Now concerning (2) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and (3) our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,

3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, (1) and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction
The part I enlarged, is in reference back to verse 2's "day of the Lord," which verse you've completely left out in in your quote.










[for the readers: The day of the Lord is an earthly time period of much duration, that the false claimants purport "is present / is already here." That's the matter Paul is addressing, by his bringing the subject of our rapture in v.1 to bear on that (false) claim re: "the day of the Lord" (not a singular 24-hr day, kind of day)]
 

Omegatime

Well-known member
Apr 29, 2023
1,149
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Pennsylvania
Divine Watermark, is using someone's "personal opinion," or better known as "Lexicon's" and in no shape or form is anywhere close to proving pre-trib Rapture.

not when Paul himself, and says he get's everything he writes from Jesus Himself, that chain of Events that factually happen will be:

1. the AC is Revealed
2. Jesus Returns
3. We are GATHERED to meet Him

2 Now concerning (2) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and (3) our being gathered together to him, we ask you, brothers,

3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, (1) and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction

Order of Events:
(1) and the man of lawlessness is revealed
(2) the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
(3)
our being gathered together to him

That is 100% AFTER MID TRIBULATION!

to deny what Paul wrote here is to call JESUS a LIAR!
 

Oncefallen

Idiot in Chief
Staff member
Jan 15, 2011
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For those persons who are reporting dozens of posts because you don't like the emojis that others are placing on your posts, knock it off!

If you don't like the emojis someone posts, don't look at them!
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,873
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I will PM you tomorrow bro.
Okay... I wasn't aware that there IS a PM system at this site...

... I mean, when I first joined this site, a member who'd never had any posts (from what I recall) PM'd me a couple times... but I assumed that later that PM system was done away with. No??

I'll look around and see if I can find it.

Thanks.
 

LightOfMyLife

Well-known member
May 6, 2023
389
429
63
Independence, Mo
Okay... I wasn't aware that there IS a PM system at this site...

... I mean, when I first joined this site, a member who'd never had any posts (from what I recall) PM'd me a couple times... but I assumed that later that PM system was done away with. No??

I'll look around and see if I can find it.

Thanks.
You can find it by clicking your name and then click conversation. You will find the instructions.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,539
8,105
113
Okay... I wasn't aware that there IS a PM system at this site...

... I mean, when I first joined this site, a member who'd never had any posts (from what I recall) PM'd me a couple times... but I assumed that later that PM system was done away with. No??

I'll look around and see if I can find it.

Thanks.
Sorry for the delay bro. Been super busy on these super tricky helicoptor rotor blades designs.
A lot of meetings, and I have about 10 other engineers that I need to keep happy. Hopefully I can drop you a line tomorrow.
 

presidente

Senior Member
May 29, 2013
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Bro.....pre-tribbers have yet to hear a single decent rebuttal. Refutations are generally little more than bitter denials. One liners like what @DJT_47 just posted. Uncalled-for red-X's. Or red herrings and misdirection.

The few honest questions are very VERY easy to spot BTW. These people are "good soil" so to speak.

Another interesting observation:
Pre-tribbers are pretty darn happy about the whole "uber-gracious" scope of it all.
A free ticket "EK" OUT OF the "PLACE-TIME-CAUSE" of God wrath.
Post-tribbers demand fire, blood and beheadings. In what amounts to ghoulish glee.
I don't see anyone excited to get beheaded. There is suffering for those who follow Christ. It can get really bad for some people. It's a somber topic.

But your wanting to avoid suffering doesn't change Biblical eschatology. The thing that is lacking for pretrib is some kind of Biblical evidence for the theory. Where does the Bible teach that Jesus comes back before His coming to resurrect the saints before the first resurrection? There isn't a narrative passage that shows a pretrib rapture, not even where you might expect it in the book of Revelation. Jesus didn't describe that. Paul doesn't write about it. He doesn't teach that Jesus comes back twice. Pre-tribbers assume that then try to assign some verses to one event they made up, and otehrs to anotehr time period.

As to you "wrath" question, there are all kinds of wrath events in the Bible. Some flee from it, some die in the crossfire but are still "saved", some go thru it and survive, and some actually "get judged" die as a result of being condemned aka damned. All groups of which are present in Revelation Trib wrath.
It looks like you are grasping at straws here to come up with something to say. The wrath I Thessalonians mentions is contrasted with obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.

Luk 21:23
But woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck, in those days! for there shall be great distress in the land, and wrath upon this people.
I think we are both in agreement here that those who are reconciled to God through Christ Jesus are not under God's wrath, right Do you think Luke 21:23 is describing God's wrath on those who are in right relationship with God through faith in Christ?

If not, why are you using this as some kind of apologetic for pretrib.

Just to let you know, the little children all went to heaven. Yes, they died. But died "non-judged". Probably many other adults as well.
Wrong place wrong time and caught in the crossfire.


Question: is every person who has died in the Ukraine war "unsaved"?
Why would I think everyone who dies in the Ukraine war is unsaved? That's a better question for pretribbers who assocaite suffering with being appointed to wrath.
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,539
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I don't see anyone excited to get beheaded. There is suffering for those who follow Christ. It can get really bad for some people. It's a somber topic.

But your wanting to avoid suffering doesn't change Biblical eschatology. The thing that is lacking for pretrib is some kind of Biblical evidence for the theory. Where does the Bible teach that Jesus comes back before His coming to resurrect the saints before the first resurrection? There isn't a narrative passage that shows a pretrib rapture, not even where you might expect it in the book of Revelation. Jesus didn't describe that. Paul doesn't write about it. He doesn't teach that Jesus comes back twice. Pre-tribbers assume that then try to assign some verses to one event they made up, and otehrs to anotehr time period.



It looks like you are grasping at straws here to come up with something to say. The wrath I Thessalonians mentions is contrasted with obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ.



I think we are both in agreement here that those who are reconciled to God through Christ Jesus are not under God's wrath, right Do you think Luke 21:23 is describing God's wrath on those who are in right relationship with God through faith in Christ?

If not, why are you using this as some kind of apologetic for pretrib.



Why would I think everyone who dies in the Ukraine war is unsaved? That's a better question for pretribbers who assocaite suffering with being appointed to wrath.
Friend.......I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am not appointed to wrath. Neither the wrath of condemnation, nor Gods 70th week of Daniel tribulation wrath. I understand this. I truly grasp and comprehend the clear Biblical reality of it. Lucky me huh?

But as far as you are concerned.......evidently you ARE going to suffer God's wrath. In fact you confess, profess and proclaim it far and wide ENDLESSLY. You want it. You earnestly desire it. You truly believe that you deserve it.

That is exactly what you are saying about yourself. As your faith is so be it unto you. And that goes for all of the post-tribbers out there.

Rots of ruck and happy landings buddy. Believe me you're gonna need it.
 

LightOfMyLife

Well-known member
May 6, 2023
389
429
63
Independence, Mo
Friend.......I know beyond a shadow of a doubt that I am not appointed to wrath. Neither the wrath of condemnation, nor Gods 70th week of Daniel tribulation wrath. I understand this. I truly grasp and comprehend the clear Biblical reality of it. Lucky me huh?

But as far as you are concerned.......evidently you ARE going to suffer God's wrath. In fact you confess, profess and proclaim it far and wide ENDLESSLY. You want it. You earnestly desire it. You truly believe that you deserve it.

That is exactly what you are saying about yourself. As your faith is so be it unto you. And that goes for all of the post-tribbers out there.

Rots of ruck and happy landings buddy. Believe me you're gonna need it.
We should be certain of our salvation it is a free gift we just have to admit we are sinners in need of a Savior which is Jesus who paid the price for our past, present, and future sins. We have to accept his sacrifice on the cross for our sin debt which was paid in full. It is finished. We can not earn our salvation because none of us can ever be good enough. We have not been appointed to wrath.
 

TheDivineWatermark

Well-known member
Aug 3, 2018
10,873
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Sorry for the delay bro.
No problem at all! And there's certainly no need for any rush, on my account!

(I prefer to plan my "vacations" well in advance. lol... so I'm not in any hurry... Thanks!!)
 

cv5

Well-known member
Nov 20, 2018
22,539
8,105
113
I did not say you are right because you are wrong.
You win only in your own mind. You are on the wrong side of this discussion as most are.
You have been deceived by false teachers to the point you will never see the truth.
Paul and Jesus said this would happen and is a sign that the end was near.
I really worry what people like you will do if you are still alive when the man of sin comes for you.
I pity you. And I will pray God opens your eyes.
Good by.
I figured it out:
You ARE going to suffer God's wrath, the tribulation. God WILL give you what you choose.

The waters turned to blood. The pestilence.
Best prepare yourself friend.