Romans 13 and submitting to a corrupt government
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“The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America, When in the Course of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.”
with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.--That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, --That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn, that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable, than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.--Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.”
with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.
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I agree with these words, but the debate is... is this Scripturally-supported? I will side with them under the premise that when a government ceases to punish bad behavior and reward the good, as Paul described, then it is a corrupt government that we need to... rework. Hence the need for weapons in a fallen order.
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Was it really though? These representatives who were signers of the Declaration of Independence a good portion were educated rational Christian men. Many were Chuch leaders. Many were well schooled on English law , John Locke, and on Sir. William black stones commentaries on the laws of England . These were not uneducated country bumpkins with pitchforks, 😊 they joined in later.
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now I haven’t been educated on Locke yet but I think I found something I want to read someday.
https://ndpr.nd.edu/reviews/john-locke-the-philosopher-as-christian-virtuoso/
https://ndpr.nd.edu/reviews/john-locke-the-philosopher-as-christian-virtuoso/
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And what makes your interpretation more right than they? I think if you look at the commentary in the Geneva you will be surprised at the language surrounding the Commentary on Roman’s 13. Perhaps even why King James outlawed the Geneva and made his bible.😉 that’s for more intelligent people than me to argue though. I’m just keeping my eyes on Jesus and being attuned to Holy Spirit within for doing what is right. The right scripture will come to mind when and where it’s needed to be applied to my life situations
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The blessings of liberty do not come to us from government. And although there is nothing inherently wrong about your statement …It just doesn’t fit with these scriptures.
Not all government authorities are of God, nor do they execute His will as suggested in verses 2 through 5. The context referred to here is excelling authorities commissioned by God for the purpose of administering his service and justice to the church (called of God)
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Law of the lesser magistrate?
https://americanreformer.org/2021/0...-to-god-the-importance-of-lesser-magistrates/
https://americanreformer.org/2021/0...-to-god-the-importance-of-lesser-magistrates/
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first read that in full context
“So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.”
Matthew 23:3-7 NIV
Scribe and Pharisees were not part of Rome. They were Jews all in all. Sadducee’s a different group however.
“Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
Matthew 16:12 NIV
“So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach. They tie up heavy, cumbersome loads and put them on other people’s shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to lift a finger to move them. “Everything they do is done for people to see: They make their phylacteries wide and the tassels on their garments long; they love the place of honor at banquets and the most important seats in the synagogues; they love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and to be called ‘Rabbi’ by others.”
Matthew 23:3-7 NIV
Scribe and Pharisees were not part of Rome. They were Jews all in all. Sadducee’s a different group however.
“Then they understood that he was not telling them to guard against the yeast used in bread, but against the teaching of the Pharisees and Sadducees.”
Matthew 16:12 NIV
We are told to be in obedience to all forms of Government, church or otherwise.
Christians are peaceful folk, we are citizens of the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 23:1-3
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses. Therefore, whatever they tell you, do and comply with it all..."
Romans 13:1-3
Every person is to be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear...
Whoever resists authority is opposing the rule of God. That is, authority in any shape or form.
Are Christians a bunch of rebels, resisting every authority that exists?
A second point, politicians are members of society just like you and me. Politicians have the same corrupt motives that we all have to differing degrees. No one is absolutely honest and no one can be trusted absolutely.
Christians are peaceful folk, we are citizens of the kingdom of heaven.
Matthew 23:1-3
Then Jesus spoke to the crowds and to His disciples, saying: “The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses. Therefore, whatever they tell you, do and comply with it all..."
Romans 13:1-3
Every person is to be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those which exist are established by God. Therefore whoever resists authority has opposed the ordinance of God; and they who have opposed will receive condemnation upon themselves. For rulers are not a cause of fear...
Whoever resists authority is opposing the rule of God. That is, authority in any shape or form.
Are Christians a bunch of rebels, resisting every authority that exists?
A second point, politicians are members of society just like you and me. Politicians have the same corrupt motives that we all have to differing degrees. No one is absolutely honest and no one can be trusted absolutely.