I have a friend who was raised in a conservative Fundamentalist household with lots of kids. He was around 40 and not married, and he was looking up Doug Philips daughters online, and following them. Doug Philips is a really right wing conservative who got into some trouble a while back.
Recently, I saw part of "Happy Shiny People." It was about the Duggars, Bill Gothard and the IBLP. The Duggars were an independent fundamental Baptist family with lots and lots of kids. When Jim Bob, the dad, ran for state senate, he came to the attention of the media and the family ended up with a couple of reality show type specials then a full-blown show with spin offs. After the fact came out that one of the kids had done some handsy molestation of certain sisters, the TV show eventually fell apart.
I didn't quite finish the documentary. It seemed to be a hit piece on the whole Bill Gothard, IBLP movement. They interviewed someone whose dad physically disciplined her mom and tried to present that as normal for Christian fundamentalists. I haven't been to an IBLP meeting. I don't think I've been to a Independent Baptist church except for funerals and maybe a few other family events. I had an uncle who was an independent Baptist pastor. I would imagine it would be rare for Independent Baptists to spank their wives. They do seem to be the fundamentalist group most likely to have some sort of overt racism in the church (I heard stories from a sister who went to one for a while, maybe 25 or 30 years ago), and some other quirky opinions. But i get the impression that they are like most regular Baptist groups except for the (odd) KJV onlyist opinion.... about most things. You may get some people with off the wall opinions on various topics in the independent Baptist movement, like Steve Anderson has, but I don't think that characterizes the whole movement from what I know of it. Of course, the IBLP and Independent Baptist aren't the same thing. That organization influenced other groups and independent Baptists are independent, not affiliated with IBLP.
The show tried to paint the whole organization by a few bad elements, as if the IBLP or being in Fundamentalist made people into child molesters or wife spankers.
The IBLP teaches this umbrella idea that we are all under God's authority, the wife is under the husband's authority, the children under the parents authority. Obedience to parents is highly emphasized. They teach people to have as many children as God will give, hoping to influence culture through numbers. They have a conservative creationist home school curriculum. The video showed the girls being given drawings of women dressed certain ways and the girls were supposed to identify immodest parts of the outfit that would catch a man's eye-- tight or exposing skin. Mrs. Duggard had a lot of 'pilgram collars' as the documentary described it.
To date, a man approaches the father and says he would like to court the daughter with the intention of marriage. I like asking the dad first, actually, as a dad... and Biblically it makes sense. But the last bit about intention of marriage seems a bit excessive. It is kind of good that a community of Christians sees how rotten and fornication prone US dating culture is and tries to do something different, even if it is a bit odd to outsiders. The Duggars allowed 'side hugs' at some stage of relationship-- maybe post engagement.
I am thinking for the single guys here, what do you think of wife-hunting among IBLP folks, maybe hanging out at the conferences, getting to know the dads, asking if you can court their daughters... or maybe asking her if asking her dad is okay with her first.
If a less conservative evangelical who wasn't into the vision of conquering the world by making a lot of babies, who didn't grow up around women wearing 'pilgrim collars', who grew up in a church where there was a bit of a tension between milieu of feminism and biblical teachings on wives submitting... is trying to find a wife in a more conservative group like this a good idea, or would there be too much cultural difference and baggage?
I am thinking of difficulties-- having a wife who wants to have a looooot of kids if you don't want to, in-laws who think you are liberal when you are really extremely conservative, having an oddly dressed wife. Maybe if you wanted a wife to work, she'd feel guilty if she didn't do at-home stuff like sew or make soap and candles, and you wouldn't want to make her sin against her conscience. That could be an issue with not producing the maximum number of babies also.
On the plus side, the woman has been trained to be modest, so you might not spend 10% of your life waiting for your wife to put on her make-up. You just have to watch her wear the pilgrim collar or whatever and not be stylish. If you don't care, that may work out okay. If she wants to have lots of kids, you can say, no, I'm the boss, I'm the husband, so I say lets have three kids. I heard something about ILBP teaching wives to always be sexually available to their husbands. That sounds great! They'd be trained against one marital problem at least. If her brothers, uncles, etc. were well-behaved, it seems likely that she would be a virgin, too, which is another plus. Virgins are hard to find. Of course, it should work both ways.
And of course if they grow up in an authoritarian type home culture and you are really gentle, kind, and laid back, and attentive to her desires maybe the woman would appreciate that, though it is possible the change could stress her out as she adjusts to the lack of rules. Going through the courtship process you might want to ascertain whether she really is into you or if she is just with you because her dad said yes to your request. This is a different subculture and the courtship practices seem to be very marriage focused, which could be an advantage if you really want to marry and not just date aimlessly for years.
Other similar places to find women would be purity balls and former Amish families from Evangelical churches that have former Amish, who live an Amish lifestyle. I don't think the Amish let you marry in if you don't convert. I hear some of them have a legalistic soteriology, and you'd have to give up electricity--- so former Amish evangelical. You might have to teach her how to use a refrigerator and a washing machine.
What do you men think of going to an ultra-conservative group like this to find a wife? I don't see it as having the same appeal for women, to go from a more free environment to one that is culturally potentially more restrictive.
Recently, I saw part of "Happy Shiny People." It was about the Duggars, Bill Gothard and the IBLP. The Duggars were an independent fundamental Baptist family with lots and lots of kids. When Jim Bob, the dad, ran for state senate, he came to the attention of the media and the family ended up with a couple of reality show type specials then a full-blown show with spin offs. After the fact came out that one of the kids had done some handsy molestation of certain sisters, the TV show eventually fell apart.
I didn't quite finish the documentary. It seemed to be a hit piece on the whole Bill Gothard, IBLP movement. They interviewed someone whose dad physically disciplined her mom and tried to present that as normal for Christian fundamentalists. I haven't been to an IBLP meeting. I don't think I've been to a Independent Baptist church except for funerals and maybe a few other family events. I had an uncle who was an independent Baptist pastor. I would imagine it would be rare for Independent Baptists to spank their wives. They do seem to be the fundamentalist group most likely to have some sort of overt racism in the church (I heard stories from a sister who went to one for a while, maybe 25 or 30 years ago), and some other quirky opinions. But i get the impression that they are like most regular Baptist groups except for the (odd) KJV onlyist opinion.... about most things. You may get some people with off the wall opinions on various topics in the independent Baptist movement, like Steve Anderson has, but I don't think that characterizes the whole movement from what I know of it. Of course, the IBLP and Independent Baptist aren't the same thing. That organization influenced other groups and independent Baptists are independent, not affiliated with IBLP.
The show tried to paint the whole organization by a few bad elements, as if the IBLP or being in Fundamentalist made people into child molesters or wife spankers.
The IBLP teaches this umbrella idea that we are all under God's authority, the wife is under the husband's authority, the children under the parents authority. Obedience to parents is highly emphasized. They teach people to have as many children as God will give, hoping to influence culture through numbers. They have a conservative creationist home school curriculum. The video showed the girls being given drawings of women dressed certain ways and the girls were supposed to identify immodest parts of the outfit that would catch a man's eye-- tight or exposing skin. Mrs. Duggard had a lot of 'pilgram collars' as the documentary described it.
To date, a man approaches the father and says he would like to court the daughter with the intention of marriage. I like asking the dad first, actually, as a dad... and Biblically it makes sense. But the last bit about intention of marriage seems a bit excessive. It is kind of good that a community of Christians sees how rotten and fornication prone US dating culture is and tries to do something different, even if it is a bit odd to outsiders. The Duggars allowed 'side hugs' at some stage of relationship-- maybe post engagement.
I am thinking for the single guys here, what do you think of wife-hunting among IBLP folks, maybe hanging out at the conferences, getting to know the dads, asking if you can court their daughters... or maybe asking her if asking her dad is okay with her first.
If a less conservative evangelical who wasn't into the vision of conquering the world by making a lot of babies, who didn't grow up around women wearing 'pilgrim collars', who grew up in a church where there was a bit of a tension between milieu of feminism and biblical teachings on wives submitting... is trying to find a wife in a more conservative group like this a good idea, or would there be too much cultural difference and baggage?
I am thinking of difficulties-- having a wife who wants to have a looooot of kids if you don't want to, in-laws who think you are liberal when you are really extremely conservative, having an oddly dressed wife. Maybe if you wanted a wife to work, she'd feel guilty if she didn't do at-home stuff like sew or make soap and candles, and you wouldn't want to make her sin against her conscience. That could be an issue with not producing the maximum number of babies also.
On the plus side, the woman has been trained to be modest, so you might not spend 10% of your life waiting for your wife to put on her make-up. You just have to watch her wear the pilgrim collar or whatever and not be stylish. If you don't care, that may work out okay. If she wants to have lots of kids, you can say, no, I'm the boss, I'm the husband, so I say lets have three kids. I heard something about ILBP teaching wives to always be sexually available to their husbands. That sounds great! They'd be trained against one marital problem at least. If her brothers, uncles, etc. were well-behaved, it seems likely that she would be a virgin, too, which is another plus. Virgins are hard to find. Of course, it should work both ways.
And of course if they grow up in an authoritarian type home culture and you are really gentle, kind, and laid back, and attentive to her desires maybe the woman would appreciate that, though it is possible the change could stress her out as she adjusts to the lack of rules. Going through the courtship process you might want to ascertain whether she really is into you or if she is just with you because her dad said yes to your request. This is a different subculture and the courtship practices seem to be very marriage focused, which could be an advantage if you really want to marry and not just date aimlessly for years.
Other similar places to find women would be purity balls and former Amish families from Evangelical churches that have former Amish, who live an Amish lifestyle. I don't think the Amish let you marry in if you don't convert. I hear some of them have a legalistic soteriology, and you'd have to give up electricity--- so former Amish evangelical. You might have to teach her how to use a refrigerator and a washing machine.
What do you men think of going to an ultra-conservative group like this to find a wife? I don't see it as having the same appeal for women, to go from a more free environment to one that is culturally potentially more restrictive.
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She certainly speaks her mind. Her culture really emphasizes honoring parents and providing for them, and that is instilled in the children. I think they believe wives should be respectful to their husbands, but it isn't drilled in to the extent honoring parents is. Marital roles are probably more acted out and imitated like they are here than taught through instruction. Of course I have a limited frame of reference.