In heaven we will have a body of flesh and blood. Very interesting because angels can take on human form

[ewq1938]

But the idea of a immortal body, is not scriptural. By what authority do we have to call Christ resurrected body immortal?

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:

Was Christ body immortal before the crucifixion? No
Christ was raised in the same body He died in… was that some immortal body? No

Same body but there was a change that occurred.

I really enjoy or discussions ewq1938 whether we agree or not, your type of dedication to the Word is inspiring…

Thank you. I feel the same, about how inspiring I am.


Php_3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Here the vile body is out current mortal body and it will be fashioned or changed unto His glorious body. Clearly that isn't his regular old mortal body but must be something better and greater, and our change from vile to something better like his must all be a reference to the immortal body we look forward to.

 

[Truthnightmare]

How do you understand the description of Jesus being the firstborn?

Well….’Jesus was the firstborn, because He was the only born of God…There is no second born, but there will be. Jesus is the first born by flesh and spirit, Jesus is the son of God.
We will be the second born because by believing in the first we follow what the first did, making us the second.

Angels are called sons of Christ, like Jesus, but some of them were never born this stopping them of their title.

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:




Same body but there was a change that occurred.





Thank you. I feel the same, about how inspiring I am.


Php_3:21 Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Here the vile body is out current mortal body and it will be fashioned or changed unto His glorious body. Clearly that isn't his regular old mortal body but must be something better and greater, and our change from vile to something better like his must all be a reference to the immortal body we look forward to.

I believe I understand your rational, let’s take it precept upon precept.

1 Corinthians 15
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (two bodies)

We must hold fast to the fact there are only two bodies until we are told different.

When Jesus walked the earth (Before He rose)
He was in the natural body. When He arose He was also in a natural body, as Christ said:
Luke 24
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

At this point we have held on to what we were told in Corinthians 15.

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Which kind of body is the “glorious body”?

We must still hold on to the fact there are only two bodies. You must make a choice here… Is this glorious body a natural flesh body or a spiritual body?

As soon as you claim a natural immortal flesh body you have added to scripture and have nullified what Paul said. Our beliefs must stay in the parameters given by the word.

The “glorious body” is the spiritual body.

Matthew 17
17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Continued…..
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

This is a description of the glorious body.
Note:
Luke
But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him

Notice “they saw His glory”

When we go to Acts we read the following

9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

In what manner is Christ going to return?

Revelation 1
7Behold, he cometh with clouds

14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

We should take note that a cloud seems to be associated with Christ when He is in His spiritual body.

When choosing what “glorious body” means, we must pick from the two options given to us, either flesh body or spiritual body. If neither fits our narrative, we must change our thinking, but we cannot add to scripture.

 

[Cameron143]

Well….’Jesus was the firstborn, because He was the only born of God…There is no second born, but there will be. Jesus is the first born by flesh and spirit, Jesus is the son of God.
We will be the second born because by believing in the first we follow what the first did, making us the second.

Angels are called sons of Christ, like Jesus, but some of them were never born this stopping them of their title.


I believe I understand your rational, let’s take it precept upon precept.

1 Corinthians 15
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (two bodies)

We must hold fast to the fact there are only two bodies until we are told different.

When Jesus walked the earth (Before He rose)
He was in the natural body. When He arose He was also in a natural body, as Christ said:
Luke 24
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

At this point we have held on to what we were told in Corinthians 15.

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Which kind of body is the “glorious body”?

We must still hold on to the fact there are only two bodies. You must make a choice here… Is this glorious body a natural flesh body or a spiritual body?

As soon as you claim a natural immortal flesh body you have added to scripture and have nullified what Paul said. Our beliefs must stay in the parameters given by the word.

The “glorious body” is the spiritual body.

Matthew 17
17 And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,
2 And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.
Continued…..
5 While he yet spake, behold, a bright cloud overshadowed them: and behold a voice out of the cloud, which said, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased; hear ye him.

This is a description of the glorious body.
Note:
Luke
But Peter and they that were with him were heavy with sleep: and when they were awake, they saw his glory, and the two men that stood with him

Notice “they saw His glory”

When we go to Acts we read the following

9And when he had spoken these things, while they beheld, he was taken up; and a cloud received him out of their sight. 10And while they looked stedfastly toward heaven as he went up, behold, two men stood by them in white apparel; 11Which also said, Ye men of Galilee, why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, which is taken up from you into heaven, shall so come in like manner as ye have seen him go into heaven.

In what manner is Christ going to return?

Revelation 1
7Behold, he cometh with clouds

14His head and his hairs were white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes were as a flame of fire; 15And his feet like unto fine brass, as if they burned in a furnace; and his voice as the sound of many waters. 16And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance was as the sun shineth in his strength.

We should take note that a cloud seems to be associated with Christ when He is in His spiritual body.

When choosing what “glorious body” means, we must pick from the two options given to us, either flesh body or spiritual body. If neither fits our narrative, we must change our thinking, but we cannot add to scripture.

I appreciate you answering. I was thinking more along the lines of Colossians 1:18. I should have asked what do you make of Jesus being the firstborn from the dead?

 

[Truthnightmare]

I appreciate you answering. I was thinking more along the lines of Colossians 1:18. I should have asked what do you make of Jesus being the firstborn from the dead?

I look at it rather simple. “death” and “dead” are very similar….
To be the firstborn from the dead you must defeat death and you must be the first one to do it.
How do you defeat death?
You find the person who controls death, beat them up and take it from them.

Hebrew’s 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Jesus was the first and only person to die in a natural flesh body and come back… If a person can come back after death, then death no longer has power.

 

[ewq1938]

I believe I understand your rational, let’s take it precept upon precept.

I almost didn't see this so next time it's better to not put replies to two dif people in one post.

1 Corinthians 15
There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. (two bodies)

We must hold fast to the fact there are only two bodies until we are told different.

When Jesus walked the earth (Before He rose)
He was in the natural body. When He arose He was also in a natural body, as Christ said:
Luke 24
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.

But he wasn't in a natural body. He was in a glorified body which is the spiritual body and we are told we shall have our vile bodies fashioned unto his glorious body t the resurrection and in the resurrected we are like the angels that do not die, and we shall be immortal.

At this point we have held on to what we were told in Corinthians 15.

Philippians 3:21
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body, according to the working whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.

Which kind of body is the “glorious body”?

We must still hold on to the fact there are only two bodies. You must make a choice here… Is this glorious body a natural flesh body or a spiritual body?

Spiritual body but it isn't "spiritual" as in non-physical.

 

[Cameron143]

I look at it rather simple. “death” and “dead” are very similar….
To be the firstborn from the dead you must defeat death and you must be the first one to do it.
How do you defeat death?
You find the person who controls death, beat them up and take it from them.

Hebrew’s 2:14
Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;

Jesus was the first and only person to die in a natural flesh body and come back… If a person can come back after death, then death no longer has power.

He is the firstborn from the dead, but firstborn implies there will be others. Are we going to be able to do the same?
He actually wasn't the first to be raised from the dead. But He was the firstborn to be raised not to die again. Wouldn't it make more sense to view it in this light?

 

[Truthnightmare]

I almost didn't see this so next time it's better to not put replies to two dif people in one post.





But he wasn't in a natural body. He was in a glorified body which is the spiritual body and we are told we shall have our vile bodies fashioned unto his glorious body t the resurrection and in the resurrected we are like the angels that do not die, and we shall be immortal.



Spiritual body but it isn't "spiritual" as in non-physical.

Spiritual body but it isn't "spiritual" as in non-physical.

I almost didn't see this so next time it's better to not put replies to two dif people in one post.





But he wasn't in a natural body. He was in a glorified body which is the spiritual body and we are told we shall have our vile bodies fashioned unto his glorious body t the resurrection and in the resurrected we are like the angels that do not die, and we shall be immortal.



Spiritual body but it isn't "spiritual" as in non-physical.

Paul made a clear distinction between the two bodies… The spiritual is of spirit, the physical is of physical. As soon as you insinuate there is a spiritual physical body, you have added to scripture.

You can’t be in both.

 

[Truthnightmare]

He is the firstborn from the dead, but firstborn implies there will be others. Are we going to be able to do the same?
He actually wasn't the first to be raised from the dead. But He was the firstborn to be raised not to die again. Wouldn't it make more sense to view it in this light?

He is the firstborn from the dead, but firstborn implies there will be others. Are we going to be able to do the same?

Yes, there will be others… there has already been others. But we need not die and rise again to do the same.. All we must do is attach ourselves to the one who has already done it.

He actually wasn't the first to be raised from the dead. But He was the firstborn to be raised not to die again.

He was the first and only one to raise from the dead on His own accord.

 

[ewq1938]

Paul made a clear distinction between the two bodies… The spiritual is of spirit, the physical is of physical. As soon as you insinuate there is a spiritual physical body, you have added to scripture.

You can’t be in both.

But we know that the spiritual body is physical because Christ was in an immortal body that had flesh and bone. That is what Paul called the spiritual body, because the Spirit of God is involved not that it is a bodiless spirit like a ghost.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, there will be others… there has already been others. But we need not die and rise again to do the same.. All we must do is attach ourselves to the one who has already done it.



He was the first and only one to raise from the dead on His own accord.

I guess what I'm suggesting is that as the firstborn, there will be others who become like Him. In what regard is what I'm trying to ascertain. I agree that we only need to be linked to Him to be resurrected. So this doesn't seem to be the meaning.
I also believe we won't be resurrected in our own power, so I don't think this is what it is referring to.
So do you have any other explanation as to what it could be referring?

 

[Truthnightmare]

But we know that the spiritual body is physical because Christ was in an immortal body that had flesh and bone. That is what Paul called the spiritual body, because the Spirit of God is involved not that it is a bodiless spirit like a ghost.

We should approach it as what the Word says, not as what we think we know.

Paul called the flesh body mortal.
2 Corinthians
For we which live are alway delivered unto death for Jesus' sake, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our mortal flesh.

Can you present any scripture that says there is a immortal body of flesh and bone?

That is what Paul called the spiritual body, because the Spirit of God is involved not that it is a bodiless spirit like a ghost.

The spirit of God being involved with flesh man does not make that man immortal.

Ecclesiastes
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

The spirit is involved here… but as you see the body has returned to dust… This is not the framework of immortal.

Take another look….

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another

2 bodies once again… the glory of one is not the glory of the other…

What is a celestial body?
epouranios: of heaven
Original Word: ἐπουράνιος, ον
Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: epouranios
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-oo-ran'-ee-os)
Definition: of heaven
Usage: heavenly, celestial, in the heavenly sphere, the sphere of spiritual activities; met: divine, spiritual

The celestial body is spiritual, it is the heaven body. Let’s look at the terrestrial body.

epigeios: of the earth

Original Word: ἐπίγειος, ον​

Part of Speech: Adjective
Transliteration: epigeios
Phonetic Spelling: (ep-ig'-i-os)
Definition: of the earth
Usage: (a) on the earth, belonging to the earth (as opposed to the sky), (b) in a spiritual sense, belonging to the earthly sphere, earthly (as opposed to heavenly).

Strong's Exhaustive Concordanceearthly, in earth, terrestrial.
From epi and ge; worldly (physically or morally) -- earthly, in earth, terrestrial.
You’re saying the the physical body is celestial, but the spiritual body is heavenly, it is the terrestrial body that is physical.
You are again creating another body that is part celestial and part terrestrial.

​

​

 

[ewq1938]

I guess what I'm suggesting is that as the firstborn, there will be others who become like Him.

I believe the scriptures says as much:


1Co 15:20 But now is Christ risen from the dead, and become the firstfruits of them that slept.
1Co 15:21 For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
1Co 15:22 For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.
1Co 15:23 But every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming.

 

[ewq1938]

Can you present any scripture that says there is a immortal body of flesh and bone?

I have. All the verses together present us that Christ had a glorified body after resurrection, and it is immortal because ours will be fashioned after His, and we know the resurrection is to immortality.

The spirit of God being involved with flesh man does not make that man immortal.

Already covered that:

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:


1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

Here it is clear the resurrection ends up with something different than what was planted which is a reference to burial.

Ecclesiastes
Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it

The spirit is involved here… but as you see the body has returned to dust… This is not the framework of immortal.

I speak of resurrection not what happens at death and burial.

Take another look….

There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another

2 bodies once again… the glory of one is not the glory of the other…

No one has proposed one body or 3. The two are both made of flesh, different flesh. One is vile and one is glorified.

You’re saying the the physical body is celestial, but the spiritual body is heavenly, it is the terrestrial body that is physical.
You are again creating another body that is part celestial and part terrestrial.​

The spiritual body is all celetial metaphorically speraking. The immortal will live on this old Earth for awhile as well, similar to how Christ did after resurrection.​

 

[Truthnightmare]

I guess what I'm suggesting is that as the firstborn, there will be others who become like Him. In what regard is what I'm trying to ascertain. I agree that we only need to be linked to Him to be resurrected. So this doesn't seem to be the meaning.
I also believe we won't be resurrected in our own power, so I don't think this is what it is referring to.
So do you have any other explanation as to what it could be referring?

You must decide what “like Him” is referring to… and there are many correct answers.

Put it like this…. My father was a private investigator, he loved donuts, and played baseball.

I am a finisher of medical parts, I love cheesecake and I played football and basketball… am I like my father?

And must I die and be resurrected to be like Christ.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, (die) but we shall all be changed

 

[Mem]

Romans 6: 9-10
9For we know that since Christ was raised from the dead, He cannot die again; death no longer has dominion over Him. 10The death He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life He lives, He lives to God.

Jesus cannot die again. What happened to his body after He was raised from the dead?

 

[Cameron143]

You must decide what “like Him” is referring to… and there are many correct answers.

Put it like this…. My father was a private investigator, he loved donuts, and played baseball.

I am a finisher of medical parts, I love cheesecake and I played football and basketball… am I like my father?

And must I die and be resurrected to be like Christ.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, (die) but we shall all be changed

Your last comment was about the rapture. And yes, I believe we must die to be like the firstborn from the dead.
I already know what I believe. I'm asking questions to see what you believe.

 

[Truthnightmare]

I have. All the verses together present us that Christ had a glorified body after resurrection, and it is immortal because ours will be fashioned after His, and we know the resurrection is to immortality.





Already covered that:

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:


1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

Here it is clear the resurrection ends up with something different than what was planted which is a reference to burial.




I speak of resurrection not what happens at death and burial.





No one has proposed one body or 3. The two are both made of flesh, different flesh. One is vile and one is glorified.

The spiritual body is all celetial metaphorically speraking. The immortal will live on this old Earth for awhile as well, similar to how Christ did after resurrection.​

I have. All the verses together present us that Christ had a glorified body after resurrection, and it is immortal because ours will be fashioned after His, and we know the resurrection is to immortality.





Already covered that:

1Co 15:42 So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1Co 15:43 It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:


1Co 15:35 But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1Co 15:36 Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1Co 15:37 And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:

Here it is clear the resurrection ends up with something different than what was planted which is a reference to burial.




I speak of resurrection not what happens at death and burial.





No one has proposed one body or 3. The two are both made of flesh, different flesh. One is vile and one is glorified.

The spiritual body is all celetial metaphorically speraking. The immortal will live on this old Earth for awhile as well, similar to how Christ did after resurrection.​

Well let’s look at what you are implying.

12For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.

You are saying we do wrestle with the flesh, just a different kind of flesh.

Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.

So flesh can inherit the kingdom, just a different kind of flesh.

Jesus said
Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me to have.”

You are saying the spirit does have flesh, just a different kind of flesh.

The two are both made of flesh,

God has a body…
And I will take away mine hand, and thou shalt see my back parts: but my face shall not be seen

So according to you Gods body is some type of flesh.

The fallen angels were never born of woman, but some how there body’s are some type of flesh.

What you are saying is every entity is in some kind of flesh, either regular flesh or glorified flesh..
So even we Jesus says the spirit has no flesh

Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see Me to have.”

And we are told God is spirit….

God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth

But somehow God has flesh, it’s just glorified flesh. Just doesn’t seem right.

 

[Truthnightmare]

Your last comment was about the rapture. And yes, I believe we must die to be like the firstborn from the dead.
I already know what I believe. I'm asking questions to see what you believe.

Then we have a problem friend…. If we must die to be like Him…. Then these people can’t be like Him.

Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

Some of us will be alive when Christ returns, we will not die, but will be changed.
I don’t hold to a rapture.

 

[Mem]

There's One who has ascended into heaven, the One who descended from heaven, the Son of Man.

John 3:13
No one has ascended into heaven except the One who descended from heaven—the Son of Man.

Wouldn't this include Nephilim daddies?

 

[Mem]

....I just realized that verse might be implying that no one has descended from heaven either ?