Is there a difference between being saved and salvation, and the new covenant?

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Sep 25, 2023
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In your replies can you please explain your POV... It is very laborious trying to dig the actual specific issue out of people so that i can actually know what the problem is and thus offer a response if i have one..

Ok what is the conundrum you have?
I believe that Jesus fulfilled the Law. I believe He died and either put an end to the Law or purchased forgiveness for us. I don't know if we are to observe the Law. I am a Gentile, so I am not supposed to. But Paul wrote in Romans 7 that we are to be married to Jesus not the Law.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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You keep saying "for Israel, for Israel" when Scripture says the whole world and all people who
by grace through faith believe in the shed righteous blood of Jesus Christ for their redemption,
to be reconciled with God, escape the second death, and attain to life ever after.
That is not the new covenant though, as far as I know. The new covenant is only spoken of in a few places, and God said He would make a new covenant with Israel and I believe Him, through the prophet Jeremiah.
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
Hebrews 8 HNV

7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then no place would have been sought for a second.
8 For finding fault with them, He said,
“Behold, the days are coming”, says the Adonai,
“that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah;
9 not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers
in the day that I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt;
for they didn’t continue in My covenant,
and I disregarded them,” says the Adonai.
10 “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel
after those days,” says the Adonai:
“I will put My laws into their mind;
I will also write them on their heart.
I will be their EL(Theos, Elohim, YAH, God),
and they will be My people.
11 They will not teach every man his fellow citizen
and every man his brother, saying, ‘Know the Adonai,’
for all will know Me,
from their least to their greatest.
12 For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness.
I will remember their sins and lawless deeds no more.”
13 In that He says, “A new covenant”, He has made the first obsolete.
But that which is becoming obsolete and grows aged is near to vanishing away.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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I'm not sure what's making this so hard to understand but here is the simplest answer spoken by paul and silas to a ROMAN, who couldn't have been any less a jew.

Acts 16
29 The jailer called for lights, rushed in and fell trembling before Paul and Silas. 30 He then brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31 They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved—you and your household.” 32 Then they spoke the word of the Lord to him and to all the others in his house.
I don't know about you but I do not deny the truth of these scriptures. I simply know that the new covenant is for and with Israel, as God said through the prophet Jeremiah.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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The translation of your Bible differs from mine. But we can set aside the Greek for a moment…
The KJ utilized the ben Chayyim RabbinicText for Hebrew.
all the newer Bible versions use ben Asher Text based on the Leningrad manuscript B19a (A.D. 1008)

Here’s an example.
KJV
For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
8 And there are three that bear witness in earth, the spirit, and the water, and the blood: and these three agree in one. (KJV)

NASB
7 And it is the Spirit who bears witness, because the Spirit is the truth.
8 For there are three that bear witness, the Spirit and the water and the blood; and the three are in agreement. (NASB)

How do we know what’s correct? One way is..

Al the oldest and best manuscripts of the Hebrew Bible contain on every page, beside the Text (which is arranged in two or more columns), a varying number of lines of smaller writing, distributed between the upper and lower margins. This smaller writing is called the Massorah Magna or Great Massorah, while that in the side margins between the columns is called the Massorah Parva or Small Massorah.
The illustration given on p. 32 is a reduced facsimile of a Hebrew MS. (16 1/4 inches x 12 3/8), written in a German hand, about the year A.D. 1120. The small writing in the margins in this particular MS. is seen to occupy seven lines in the lower margin, and four lines in the upper; while in the outer margins and between the three columns is the Massorah Parva.
The word Massorah is from the root masar, to deliver something into the hand of another, so as to commit it to his trust. Hence the name is given to the small writing referred to, because it contains information necessary to those who trust the Sacred Text was committed, so that they might transcribe it, and hand it down correctly.
The Text itself had been fixed before the Massorites were put in charge of it. This had been the work of the Sopherim (from saphar, to count, or number). Their work, under Ezra and Nehemiah, was to set the Text in order after the return from Babylon; and we read of it in Neh. 8:8 (*1)(cp. Ezra 7:6, 11). The men of "the Great Synagogue" completed the work. This work lasted about 110 years, from Nehemiah to Simon the first, 410 - 300 B.C.
The Sopherim were the authorized revisers of the Sacred Text; and, their work being completed, the Massorites were the authorized custodians of it. Their work was to preserve it. The Massorah is called "A Fence to the Scriptures," because it locked all words and letters in their places. It does not contain notes or comments as such, but facts and phenomena. It records the number of times the several letters occur in the various books of the Bible; the number of words, and the middle word; the number of verses, and the middle verse; the number of expressions and combinations of words, &c. All this, not from a perverted ingenuity, but for the set purpose of safeguarding the Sacred Text, and preventing the loss of misplacement of a single letter or word.
Interesting. Thank you for sharing. What is &c?
 
E

evyaniy

Guest
Hebrews 9 HNV

1 Now indeed even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and an earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared. In the first part were the lamp stand, the table, and the show bread, which is called the Holy Place. 3 After the second veil was the tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies, 4 having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which was a golden pot holding the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat, of which things we can’t speak now in detail.
6 Now these things having been thus prepared, the priests go in continually into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the services, 7 but into the second the high priest alone, once in the year, not without blood, which he offers for himself and for the errors of the people. 8 The Holy Spirit is indicating this, that the way into the Holy Place wasn’t yet revealed while the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 This is a symbol of the present age, where gifts and sacrifices are offered that are incapable, concerning the conscience, of making the worshiper perfect, 10 being only (with foods and drinks and various washings) fleshly ordinances, imposed until a time of reformation.
11 But Messiah having come as a high priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation, 12 nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, entered in once for all into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify to the cleanness of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Messiah, Who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without defect to EL, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living EL? 15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, since a death has occurred for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first covenant, that those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a last will and testament is, there must of necessity be the death of Him who made it. 17 For a will is in force where there has been death, for it is never in force while Hhe who made it lives. 18 Therefore even the first covenant has not been dedicated without blood. 19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Torah, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which EL has commanded you.”*
21 He sprinkled the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry in the same way with the blood. 22 According to the Torah, nearly everything is cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.
23 It was necessary therefore that the copies of the things in the heavens should be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Messiah hasn’t entered into holy places made with hands, which are representations of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of EL for us; 25 nor yet that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters into the holy place year by year with blood not his own, 26 or else He must have suffered often since the foundation of the world. But now once at the end of the ages, He has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 Inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this, judgment, 28 so Messiah also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to save those who are eagerly waiting for Him.
 

timemeddler

Active member
Jul 13, 2023
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There is a root and there is a vine. For the wild olive there is the root and the natural branches.
again, what does this have to do with anything, in your first post you at unsure if you're even saved, seems you've got more important issues that whatever philosophical dribble you're on.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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Hebrews 9 HNV

1 Now indeed even the first covenant had ordinances of divine service and an earthly sanctuary. 2 For a tabernacle was prepared. In the first part were the lamp stand, the table, and the show bread, which is called the Holy Place. 3 After the second veil was the tabernacle which is called the Holy of Holies, 4 having a golden altar of incense and the ark of the covenant overlaid on all sides with gold, in which was a golden pot holding the manna, Aaron’s rod that budded, and the tablets of the covenant; 5 and above it cherubim of glory overshadowing the mercy seat, of which things we can’t speak now in detail.
6 Now these things having been thus prepared, the priests go in continually into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the services, 7 but into the second the high priest alone, once in the year, not without blood, which he offers for himself and for the errors of the people. 8 The Holy Spirit is indicating this, that the way into the Holy Place wasn’t yet revealed while the first tabernacle was still standing. 9 This is a symbol of the present age, where gifts and sacrifices are offered that are incapable, concerning the conscience, of making the worshiper perfect, 10 being only (with foods and drinks and various washings) fleshly ordinances, imposed until a time of reformation.
11 But Messiah having come as a high priest of the coming good things, through the greater and more perfect tabernacle, not made with hands, that is to say, not of this creation, 12 nor yet through the blood of goats and calves, but through His own blood, entered in once for all into the Holy Place, having obtained eternal redemption. 13 For if the blood of goats and bulls, and the ashes of a heifer sprinkling those who have been defiled, sanctify to the cleanness of the flesh, 14 how much more will the blood of Messiah, Who through the eternal Spirit offered Himself without defect to EL, cleanse your conscience from dead works to serve the living EL? 15 For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, since a death has occurred for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first covenant, that those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance. 16 For where a last will and testament is, there must of necessity be the death of Him who made it. 17 For a will is in force where there has been death, for it is never in force while Hhe who made it lives. 18 Therefore even the first covenant has not been dedicated without blood. 19 For when every commandment had been spoken by Moses to all the people according to the Torah, he took the blood of the calves and the goats, with water and scarlet wool and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book itself and all the people, 20 saying, “This is the blood of the covenant which EL has commanded you.”*
21 He sprinkled the tabernacle and all the vessels of the ministry in the same way with the blood. 22 According to the Torah, nearly everything is cleansed with blood, and apart from shedding of blood there is no remission.
23 It was necessary therefore that the copies of the things in the heavens should be cleansed with these, but the heavenly things themselves with better sacrifices than these. 24 For Messiah hasn’t entered into holy places made with hands, which are representations of the true, but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of EL for us; 25 nor yet that He should offer Himself often, as the high priest enters into the holy place year by year with blood not his own, 26 or else He must have suffered often since the foundation of the world. But now once at the end of the ages, He has been revealed to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself. 27 Inasmuch as it is appointed for men to die once, and after this, judgment, 28 so Messiah also, having been offered once to bear the sins of many, will appear a second time, not to deal with sin, but to save those who are eagerly waiting for Him.
I think this is not the original.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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Washington State
again, what does this have to do with anything, in your first post you at unsure if you're even saved, seems you've got more important issues that whatever philosophical dribble you're on.
I am not sure what you are saying. I can't follow your grammar very well. Maybe it is your word choice or a typo.

I believe that I am saved. But I used to be a new covenant believer. As a Gentile. It is a delusion of mine to think that I am an Israelite.

It has to do with correct thinking and interpretation of the Biblical texts and manuscripts.
 
Sep 25, 2023
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Washington State
read your first post. Do you have a disability of some kind?
I have been told that I have schizophrenia, but I don't believe it. My Rabbi said that he thinks I have a high functioning autism. But I don't believe that either.

I was talking with someone on another thread and he suggested that I make this thread. The Bible says to work out your salvation in fear and trembling. I want to make sure that I am saved.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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I have been told that I have schizophrenia, but I don't believe it. My Rabbi said that he thinks I have a high functioning autism. But I don't believe that either.

I was talking with someone on another thread and he suggested that I make this thread. The Bible says to work out your salvation in fear and trembling. I want to make sure that I am saved.
What do you base your salvation on?