Transgenderism and our Churches

[beaglehound]

If someone came into the church openly exhibiting any other flagrant sin, they would be pulles aside and talked to about their behavior and the gospel and given actions to take.
If it were a woman in seductive underwear the pastor wouldnt be saying, oh just give her sometime. She would be pulled aside and given other clothes to wear, and if she refused she would be trespassed from the building. (Rightfully so) But some dude in a dress its, "just give him some time".

Points well taken. But what if you were not aware the "dude" was a dude? There are many transsexual males who pass very well as females. What if you were conversing with someone in church for several months who may even say beside you and you thought was a female and it was brought to your attention the person was a transsexual. In other words the person passed very well as a female. So well that you were fooled. Would that person still be accepted by you? By the other members of your church?

 

[Nehemiah6]

If you choose to respond to this topic please keep to the topic which is how to respond to the transgender movement as it pertains to our churches.

The response is rather simple in biblical terms:

1. Christians are to express the love of God to everyone, including the world of sinners.

2. This includes presenting the Gospel to all.

3. The Gospel demand repentance and faith.

4. Repentance demand a turning away from all sins and sinful lifestyles.

5. Transgenderism (which is "T" in LGBTQ) is sexual perversion, which is a sin.

6. So unless a transgender reverts back to his or her correct biological gender, the church cannot welcome or condone this person or his/her position.

7. All attempts at labeling this a "hate crime" should be strongly refuted and resisted. The world cannot dictate to Christians as to what they should believe.

 

[beaglehound]

6. So unless a transgender reverts back to his or her correct biological gender, the church cannot welcome or condone this person or his/her position.

7. All attempts at labeling this a "hate crime" should be strongly refuted and resisted. The world cannot dictate to Christians as to what they should believe.

Point well taken with number 7.
Point 6 is more complicated. Agreed that the church must uphold biblical tenets and under no circumstances condone what is deemed sinful behaviour. Thus the reason for not allowing baptism, membership, or roles like teaching Sunday school or lay preaching. But please clarify , the church cannot welcome'.
Are you meaning you would ask that the person leave?
How would you handle this situation? Stephanie, a female whom you have known at church for a couple of years and who may have even sat beside you or in the pew in front of you was once Syd, a male. You were shocked to learn this since you were convinced the person was a female. Would you ask this person to leave?

 

[Nehemiah6]

But please clarify , the church cannot welcome'. Are you meaning you would ask that the person leave?

All are welcome as visitors or seekers. But that's it. As long as Stephanie is a visitor there is no problem. However, if she was accepted as member with the church knowing about her transgenderism, then there is a problem. And if she hid this from everyone and no one was aware, then she must be removed from membership.

 

[beaglehound]

All are welcome as visitors or seekers. But that's it. As long as Stephanie is a visitor there is no problem. However, if she was accepted as member with the church knowing about her transgenderism, then there is a problem. And if she hid this from everyone and no one was aware, then she must be removed from membership.

Thanks for clarifying that.

 

[PennEd]

Can’t imagine what I would have done if someone had fed this satanic poison to my sons when they were young.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Points well taken. But what if you were not aware the "dude" was a dude? There are many transsexual males who pass very well as females. What if you were conversing with someone in church for several months who may even say beside you and you thought was a female and it was brought to your attention the person was a transsexual. In other words the person passed very well as a female. So well that you were fooled. Would that person still be accepted by you? By the other members of your church?

What one doesnt know he doesnt know, that deception in on the deciever. The hypothetical situation here is not reality though. They may pass on the internet or camera with lighting and angles and filters, but in person in the light of day will not pass. However there is a scripture that says not to fellowship with one who calls himself a brother but is engaged in sexual perverse life style.

 

[beaglehound]

Can’t imagine what I would have done if someone had fed this satanic poison to my sons when they were young.

Satanic poison. A god choice of words. Satan is going a

What one doesnt know he doesnt know, that deception in on the deciever. The hypothetical situation here is not reality though. They may pass on the internet or camera with lighting and angles and filters, but in person in the light of day will not pass. However there is a scripture that says not to fellowship with one who calls himself a brother but is engaged in sexual perverse life style.

You are wrong about not passing my friend. Many successfully pass in public. Some don't.
I attended a very strong evangelical Baptist Church.
A young female wanted to be baptized and accepted into membership. After being interviewed, and I'm talking up front, nice and close she met the biblical criteria and was baptised and accepted into membership. It would be several months later that her true gender was found out.
It can and does happen, more than I think you realize.

 

[Eli1]

How should a congregation respond to a transsexual male or female who wants to partake in worship? Should the person be quietly ushered to the back of the church or worse asked to leave? Should the congregation be "accepting" of the individual yet whispered and murmuring? Does one allow one's young ones to interact or do we play the avoidance game?
More practically speaking, what bathroom should the person be permitted to use?

Well, at my church for example the way we and the priests approach this is by accepting anyone that comes through the doors of the church and we will try to help them grow in faith or just help them with prayers or comfort them when they're dealing with difficult situations which involve suffering in life such as the suicide of a son, the disease of a mother, mental health issues of a young man, or they need food, or many many many different things.

What we DON'T do is try to slide on our path with God by accepting or normalizing all the things that people coming though the door might want us to do.

So it's as simple as that.

 

[Nehemiah6]

It would be several months later that her true gender was found out.

Which would means that membership and fellowship would be immediately canceled for two sins -- perversion and deception. The problem in too many churches is mistaking compromise for Christian love. Why? Because the Bible has essentially been set aside.

 

[beaglehound]

Well, at my church for example the way we and the priests approach this is by accepting anyone that comes through the doors of the church and we will try to help them grow in faith or just help them with prayers or comfort them when they're dealing with difficult situations which involve suffering in life such as the suicide of a son, the disease of a mother, mental health issues of a young man, or they need food, or many many many different things.

What we DON'T do is try to slide on our path with God by accepting or normalizing all the things that people coming though the door might want us to do.

So it's as simple as that.

And as simple as that indeed!
While as a church we need to stay focused on the mission....sharing the gospel....we cannot cave into cultural norms at the expense of compromising our faith and biblical tenets. That is the challenge Christians face more than ever.

 

[beaglehound]

Which would means that membership and fellowship would be immediately canceled for two sins -- perversion and deception. The problem in too many churches is mistaking compromise for Christian love. Why? Because the Bible has essentially been set aside.

What I was responding to was Locoponydirtman's comment regarding transgenders not being successful at passing. I thought I'd provide an example that it is quite possible to pass without the lights and camera angles enhancing what what we are looking at.

 

[Locoponydirtman]

Satanic poison. A god choice of words. Satan is going a

You are wrong about not passing my friend. Many successfully pass in public. Some don't.
I attended a very strong evangelical Baptist Church.
A young female wanted to be baptized and accepted into membership. After being interviewed, and I'm talking up front, nice and close she met the biblical criteria and was baptised and accepted into membership. It would be several months later that her true gender was found out.
It can and does happen, more than I think you realize.

Just because you and your what ever pastors cant tell men from women dont mean no one else can.

 

[Nehemiah6]

What I was responding to was Locoponydirtman's comment regarding transgenders not being successful at passing. I thought I'd provide an example that it is quite possible to pass without the lights and camera angles enhancing what what we are looking at.

True enough. Dylan Mulvaney must have deceived many. What should be of greater concern is people who have been Christian "celebrities" now jumping on this bandwagon (e.g. Amy Grant).

 

[beaglehound]

Just because you and your what ever pastors cant tell men from women dont mean no one else can.

You said transgenders would not pass in the light of day. I said you were wrong because your statement was false and because many transgenders do pass.
Your only response was to write an ad hominem?? That wasn't very nice. Try to keep things

True enough. Dylan Mulvaney must have deceived many. What should be of greater concern is people who have been Christian "celebrities" now jumping on this bandwagon (e.g. Amy Grant).

I agree completely. Image is very important to celebs. And most will do anything to preserve their image. They don't want to be headline news fodder. And more importantly to most, money becomes the idol. Heaven forbid that they get black listed for standing up for Christ.
Do you have any thoughts about Jim Caviezel?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Do you have any thoughts about Jim Caviezel?

I was not following Sound of Freedom too closely. But the NY Times (of all papers) said this "Oddly, the picture’s muted tone ultimately undercuts its solemn sense of mission." Looks like exposing the traffickers was not aggressive enough (since I did not watch this can't say one way or another). But Caviezel does not hide his faith generally.

 

[maxwel]

Just because you and your what ever pastors cant tell men from women dont mean no one else can.

Well... at least this thread is making me laugh.

.

 

[beaglehound]

I was not following Sound of Freedom too closely. But the NY Times (of all papers) said this "Oddly, the picture’s muted tone ultimately undercuts its solemn sense of mission." Looks like exposing the traffickers was not aggressive enough (since I did not watch this can't say one way or another). But Caviezel does not hide his faith generally.

I think he is a real man God and has a deep love for the Lord. He has been blacklisted in Hollywood because of his stand.

 

[beaglehound]

True enough. Dylan Mulvaney must have deceived many. What should be of greater concern is people who have been Christian "celebrities" now jumping on this bandwagon (e.g. Amy Grant).

Dylan Mulvaney knows how to play the system.
What I find most disturbing are his Tik Tok ratings...

*Over 10 million followers
*Almost 1/2 billion likes
*Over 1 billion hits on his "Days
of Girlhood" video series
* A one on one sit down meeting with Biden

Satan is having a field day! Can you imagine of the 10 million followers on TikTok how many are probably young, impressionable and vulnerable kids?

 

[oyster67]

One of the greatest challenges facing the church today is how to respond to the transgendered community.

Share the Gospel with them just like we share the Gospel with everybody else. The root problem with them is the same as the root problem with every other man since Adam.