Israel Declares War

[Smoke]

That wasn't true, in 1948 the majority of Jews and Palestinians were happy to live side by side. However, the surrounding nations were against it for a number of reasons and so paid for the Palestinians to fight a war that seemed certain for them to win, but they lost. After that it seemed impossible for them to live side by side.

I was referring to the Oslo Accords in the 90s when I said I thought it was possible. There have been many promising discussions to a two-state solution but it is all but dead at this point. It seems highly unlikely.

 

[ZNP]

That particular piece of real estate was legitimately renamed Palestine long ago. It makes no difference whether we like it or not.

Makes no difference to you. But it makes a whole lot of difference to God and to the people who matter.

 

[Ted01]

That wasn't true, in 1948 the majority of Jews and Palestinians were happy to live side by side. However, the surrounding nations were against it for a number of reasons and so paid for the Palestinians to fight a war that seemed certain for them to win, but they lost. After that it seemed impossible for them to live side by side.

That's not at all how I understand it.

In the years leading up to 1948, the Jews were actively hostile to the local non-Jews/Arabs. They were living peaceably at the turn of the 20th century. But then Zionism began to increase and was rather popular in Britain. Britain asked the local Arabs to help with the over-throw of the Turks/Ottomans... promising them a new state, but then shafted them with Balfor and other things up until 1948 when the Jews went against the UN's plan of division and pushed the Arabs out as much as they could.

 

[Cameron143]

It's not that I think MY words make a difference, it's that there is clearly deceit when people attempt to justify killing innocent Japanese civilians. We all agree that there is sometimes collateral damage... especially when using non-nuclear bombs. But people are doing verbal gymnastic to make it seem like an atomic bomb is a discriminate bomb ideal for selectively killing armed forces inside of a densely civilian populated area.

If we can agree there is a difference between discriminate killing and indiscriminate killing (murdering), then we can get somewhere. If we agree there is a difference, the next step is to ask if the atomic bomb is the ideal bomb TO discriminately kill armed forces. The problem is that it is so blatantly obvious you don't use a nuclear bomb if you're trying to discriminately kill armed forces. That's why no one is answering the question.

You make a good point. But using those bombs saved untold lives. A ground attack on the Japanese mainland would have brought with it multiple times more deaths. And many of those deaths would have been civilian.
Making use of the bombs saved both American and Japanese lives. In the case of civilians, we can only surmise if it was more or less.
I have another scenario for you: Hamas employs civilians as shields for weaponry and combatants. What do you suggest Israeli soldiers do?

 

[ZNP]

This is true, but I was referencing to the Oslo Accords in the 90s though. There have been many promising discussions to a two-state solution but it is all but dead at this point. It seems highly unlikely.

God condemns anyone who would divide His land.

 

[ZNP]

That's not at all how I understand it.

In the years leading up to 1948, the Jews were actively hostile to the local non-Jews/Arabs. They were living peaceably at the turn of the 20th century. But then Zionism began to increase and was rather popular in Britain. Britain asked the local Arabs to help with the over-throw of the Turks/Ottomans... promising them a new state, but then shafted them with Balfor and other things up until 1948 when the Jews went against the UN's plan of division and pushed the Arabs out as much as they could.

I was simply referring to what Jews and Palestinians living at the time said publicly. I'm sure the official narrative controlled by the Muslim brotherhood would have a very big problem with anyone exposing their malevolent purpose.

 

[Ted01]

That is why most Americans cannot understand the Middle East, these rivalries date back to Abraham and if you don't understand that you can't understand what is going on.

Maybe that's why you don't understand it all.
I think that most of them do understand history and Israel being a legit state back then. But then they lost it.
It seems that you don't get that.

 

[ZNP]

What do you suggest Israeli soldiers do?

Turn to Jesus, confess your sins, and receive His atoning sacrifice to save your soul.

 

[Ted01]

I was simply referring to what Jews and Palestinians living at the time said publicly. I'm sure the official narrative controlled by the Muslim brotherhood would have a very big problem with anyone exposing their malevolent purpose.

I don't read history made up by Muslims.

 

[ZNP]

Maybe that's why you don't understand it all.
I think that most of them do understand history and Israel being a legit state back then. But then they lost it.
It seems that you don't get that.

Who cares what I get or don't get. God's word says that Israel will be in the land and even if the whole world comes against them that is how it will be.

 

[Ted01]

Who cares what I get or don't get. God's word says that Israel will be in the land and even if the whole world comes against them that is how it will be.

I disagree, I think that God told the Jews that their house was left desolate.

 

[Cameron143]

Turn to Jesus, confess your sins, and receive His atoning sacrifice to save your soul.

I pray this is so. But what should they do in the scenario presented?

 

[Smoke]

You make a good point. But using those bombs saved untold lives. A ground attack on the Japanese mainland would have brought with it multiple times more deaths. And many of those deaths would have been civilian.
Making use of the bombs saved both American and Japanese lives. In the case of civilians, we can only surmise if it was more or less.
I have another scenario for you: Hamas employs civilians as shields for weaponry and combatants. What do you suggest Israeli soldiers do?

But couldn't we have destroyed the military infrastructures using non-nuclear weapons and still saved lives? Or is it your opinion that killing the Japanese civilians is what saved the lives?

As for your question about Hamas using civilians as shields, I will give you an answer when I finish up work. I've been thinking about that all day.

 

[Cameron143]

Who cares what I get or don't get. God's word says that Israel will be in the land and even if the whole world comes against them that is how it will be.

How do you understand Joshua 21:43?

 

[2ndTimeIsTheCharm]

If we follow this reasoning (which I think is perfectly reasonable), it doesn't say to displace the non-Jewish people who already had homes and then isolate those former inhabitants to a little strip of land. I think it's possible for the Jews to return home (Israel) while also living with non-Jews. In fact, this EXACT thing was happening already prior to the British giving the keys over to the Jews. Displacing Palestinians who owned homes only feeds into Hamas' propaganda. This is how Satan works. He uses legitimate truths but spews poison to manipulate people to do his bidding.

Call me naive, but I think it was entirely possible for a Palestinian state and an Israeli state but neither side wanted to make any concessions. It's utterly sad.

God gave this reason as to why Israel should be separate:

Leviticus 20:22 “‘Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23 You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I said to you, “You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the Lord your God, who has set you apart from the nations.

So the Palestinians really do have to leave. But like I said before, if Palestinians became real Christians, God will give them a separate land of their own that they'll truly be happy with. But the reality is that they won't which is what is really sad. I've tried sharing the gospel with some of them but they don't respond! I think they're being told not to answer to any sharing of the gospel.


🍉

 

[Cameron143]

But couldn't we have destroyed the military infrastructures using non-nuclear weapons and still saved lives? Or is it your opinion that killing the Japanese civilians is what saved the lives?

As for your question about Hamas using civilians as shields, I will give you an answer when I finish up work. I've been thinking about that all day.

Civilian deaths are inevitable in war. If you understand the mindset of the Japanese soldier, their expertise in island warfare, and the relatively small size of the arena, you would understand that there would be huge civilian casualties in a ground assault. Where could civilians go? It's an island. Also, the Japanese combatants aren't going to be all in one place awaiting a bomb. They were dispersed across the entire country.
It's not that I think there were good options. I do think we made the best choice among many poor choices.

 

[Smoke]

God gave this reason as to why Israel should be separate:

Leviticus 20:22 “‘Keep all my decrees and laws and follow them, so that the land where I am bringing you to live may not vomit you out. 23 You must not live according to the customs of the nations I am going to drive out before you. Because they did all these things, I abhorred them. 24 But I said to you, “You will possess their land; I will give it to you as an inheritance, a land flowing with milk and honey.” I am the Lord your God, who has set you apart from the nations.

So the Palestinians really do have to leave. But like I said before, if Palestinians became real Christians, God will give them a separate land of their own that they'll truly be happy with. But the reality is that they won't which is what is really sad. I've tried sharing the gospel with some of them but they don't respond! I think they're being told not to answer to any sharing of the gospel.


🍉

Do you believe Israel keeps "all [of God's] decrees and laws" though? Being in the middle east, they have some similar abominable laws that the west has adopted. LGBT and increasing elective abortion rights in 2014 are some of the more recent things that are in contrast to God's law.

 

[ZNP]

I pray this is so. But what should they do in the scenario presented?

Confess that there is salvation in the name of Jesus Christ alone.

 

[ZNP]

How do you understand Joshua 21:43?

43 And the Lord gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein.

I understand it literally.

 

[Cameron143]

Confess that there is salvation in the name of Jesus Christ alone.

Same answer as before. I asked about a specific scenario. If you have no opinion or don't care to answer, that's fine.