God's Intervention?

[John146]

This goes back to a post earlier where I explained that God is different from us. I agree for humans, the future is unknown. This is not true of God. You should read Isaiah 46:9-10.

Jonah 3
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. This is the message from God. Nineveh will be overthrown in forty days.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. The people believed God. They believed the God of Israel was going to destroy them in forty days.
6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. The people repented from their evil and cried out to God. It was their only hope as verse 9 states.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. God saw. God repented. God did not do what he said he was going to do.

There is only two choices:
1. God lied about destroying them.
2. God changed his course of action based upon man's repentance and crying out to him when faced with his word.

It really is that simple.

 

[Cameron143]

Jonah 3
4 And Jonah began to enter into the city a day's journey, and he cried, and said, Yet forty days, and Nineveh shall be overthrown. This is the message from God. Nineveh will be overthrown in forty days.
5 So the people of Nineveh believed God, and proclaimed a fast, and put on sackcloth, from the greatest of them even to the least of them. The people believed God. They believed the God of Israel was going to destroy them in forty days.
6 For word came unto the king of Nineveh, and he arose from his throne, and he laid his robe from him, and covered him with sackcloth, and sat in ashes.
7 And he caused it to be proclaimed and published through Nineveh by the decree of the king and his nobles, saying, Let neither man nor beast, herd nor flock, taste any thing: let them not feed, nor drink water:
8 But let man and beast be covered with sackcloth, and cry mightily unto God: yea, let them turn every one from his evil way, and from the violence that is in their hands. The people repented from their evil and cried out to God. It was their only hope as verse 9 states.
9 Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his fierce anger, that we perish not?
10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not. God saw. God repented. God did not do what he said he was going to do.

There is only two choices:
1. God lied about destroying them.
2. God changed his course of action based upon man's repentance and crying out to him when faced with his word.

It really is that simple.

God knows the end from the beginning. That means He knows everything along the way as well.
It seems we are at an impasse, but I appreciate the discussion. Grace and peace.

 

[John146]

God knows the end from the beginning. That means He knows everything along the way as well.
It seems we are at an impasse, but I appreciate the discussion. Grace and peace.

If God knew ahead of time he wasn’t going to destroy them, then that makes God a liar.

 

[Cameron143]

If God knew ahead of time he wasn’t going to destroy them, then that makes God a liar.

Always implied in God's judgment is mercy for the repentant. You only acknowledge half.

 

[Magenta]

If God knew ahead of time he wasn’t going to destroy them, then that makes God a liar.

This is a repeat of a convo you had with Cameron just over a week ago LOL

It should be said that it has always been God's plan to forgive upon repentance.

Therefore He did not change His mind about anything. He did what He will always do.

 

[Adstar]

The Lord declared to Hezekiah that he was going to die. Hezekiah prayed, and the Lord heard his prayer, Hezekiah did not die, but lived another 15 years. Hezekiah's prayer touched the heart of God, and God allowed him to live and not die as he had stated.

Isaiah 38
1 In those days was Hezekiah sick unto death. And Isaiah the prophet the son of Amoz came unto him, and said unto him, Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order: for thou shalt die, and not live.
2 Then Hezekiah turned his face toward the wall, and prayed unto the Lord,
3 And said, Remember now, O Lord, I beseech thee, how I have walked before thee in truth and with a perfect heart, and have done that which is good in thy sight. And Hezekiah wept sore.
4 Then came the word of the Lord to Isaiah, saying,
5 Go, and say to Hezekiah, Thus saith the Lord, the God of David thy father, I have heard thy prayer, I have seen thy tears: behold, I will add unto thy days fifteen years.

Yes i agree God does respond to prayers.. Everyday.. But the point was responding to was the claim that God cannot intervene in peoples lives if they don't first pray for his intervention..

 

[John146]

Always implied in God's judgment is mercy for the repentant. You only acknowledge half.

So mercy was implied to Nineveh without it being in the message itself? im not one to add to scripture.

 

[John146]

This is a repeat of a convo you had with Cameron just over a week ago LOL

It should be said that it has always been God's plan to forgive upon repentance.

Therefore He did not change His mind about anything. He did what He will always do.

Then you make God out to be a liar. God said that Nineveh would be overthrown in forty days. Did God mean what he said? I believe God meant what he said. I believe God had every intention of destroying Nineveh.

 

[Cameron143]

So mercy was implied to Nineveh without it being in the message itself? im not one to add to scripture.

It's not adding. Jonah didn't want to go because he knew God might exercise mercy.

 

[John146]

This is a repeat of a convo you had with Cameron just over a week ago LOL

It should be said that it has always been God's plan to forgive upon repentance.

Therefore He did not change His mind about anything. He did what He will always do.

Scripture actually states God’s intent.

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

 

[John146]

It's not adding. Jonah didn't want to go because he knew God might exercise mercy.

Yes, might. Nineveh might repent upon hearing of their destruction. Jonah knew that if he preached the message of destruction, Nineveh might believe it, repent, and God would not do what he said he would do. Exactly what I’ve been saying.

 

[Adstar]

Cause God says SO

English Standard Version
Genesis 1:26
26 Then God said, “Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. And let them have dominion over the fish of the sea and over the birds of the heavens and over the livestock and over all the earth and over every creeping thing that creeps on the earth.”

This scripture does not state why God cannot intervene in the lives of people who have not prayed to Him... that statement i responded to was..

if God were to intervene without being invited to intervene by and through prayer for Him to intervene He would be breaking His own Word ------

So i asked How so? But you have not provided any scripture that shows where the Word of God states that God cannot intervene in someones life before they pray to Him..

 

[Magenta]

Scripture actually states God’s intent.

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented
of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

God's intent is to forgive upon repentance, but according to you, that makes Him a liar?

Nineveh was eventually destroyed, by the way.

 

[Cameron143]

Yes, might. Nineveh might repent upon hearing of their destruction. Jonah knew that if he preached the message of destruction, Nineveh might believe it, repent, and God would not do what he said he would do. Exactly what I’ve been saying.

Yes. But God knew they would. That's what I'm saying. That's why I said we have reached an impasse.

 

[Adstar]

As for Nineveh and Jonah.. At the time God declared Ninivah to be destroyed God intended to do so because of the sin state of that city.. So God was not lying to the people of Nineveh.. But there is always within Gods declarations of judgement that option for the transgressor to Aknowledge their transgressions to God and asking God for mercy.. Time and time again through the Bible God declared that a trangressors where going to be judged but later relented from that judgement because of the repentance of the people involved..

 

[Magenta]

As for Nineveh and Jonah. At the time God declared Ninivah to be destroyed God intended to do so
because of the sin state of that city. So God was not lying to the people of Nineveh. But there is always
within Gods declarations of judgment that option for the transgressor to acknowledge their transgressions
to God and asking God for mercy. Time and time again through the Bible God declared that trangressors were
going to be judged but later relented from that judgment because of the repentance of the people involved.

2 Chronicles 7:14

 

[Adstar]

Adstar said:
God having foreknowledge of a persons entire life can intervene in that persons life before they ever accept The LORD Jesus.

Do you have scripture for this statement?

Think of the life of Moses.. Do you think God foreknowing that He would use Moses to lead His people out of Egypt.. caused Moses to escape from being killed at birth? ( that was the order of pharoah for all hebrew babies to be killed at birth) Did God intervene when Moses was a baby in the basket in the reeds when a servant of a Egyptian princess found him and saved him from certain death.. Did God work on the heart of the princess to cuase her to take pity upon baby Moses to adopt him and raise him up so as he would know egyptian high culture so as to be able later to converse with pharaoh.. Now did baby Moses ever pray for Gods intervention to save him when He was an infant? No..

I am sure you have read the story of the prophet Jeremiah who God foreknew and had predetermined to make Him a prophet over the people..

(Jeremiah 1:4-7) "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, {5} Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. {6} Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. {7} ¶ But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak."

Jeremiah never prayed for this.. He was a kid at the time...

 

[Nehemiah6]

Based on what? How can anyone look at events in the Bible and say that the control over those things was already exercised before time? Who among us can see into the realm of eternity to say one way or the other? MM

God's character determines His intervention. This has nothing to do with "control" but everything to do with the grace and mercy of God. How come you are so thoroughly confused?

 

[John146]

Yes. But God knew they would. That's what I'm saying. That's why I said we have reached an impasse.

If God knew they would, then he lied, for he said he was going to destroy them in forty days. Verse 10 actually states that he didn’t do to them what he said he would do unto them.

10 And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way; and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them; and he did it not.

 

[John146]

Think of the life of Moses.. Do you think God foreknowing that He would use Moses to lead His people out of Egypt.. caused Moses to escape from being killed at birth? ( that was the order of pharoah for all hebrew babies to be killed at birth) Did God intervene when Moses was a baby in the basket in the reeds when a servant of a Egyptian princess found him and saved him from certain death.. Did God work on the heart of the princess to cuase her to take pity upon baby Moses to adopt him and raise him up so as he would know egyptian high culture so as to be able later to converse with pharaoh.. Now did baby Moses ever pray for Gods intervention to save him when He was an infant? No..

I am sure you have read the story of the prophet Jeremiah who God foreknew and had predetermined to make Him a prophet over the people..

(Jeremiah 1:4-7) "Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, {5} Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. {6} Then said I, Ah, Lord GOD! behold, I cannot speak: for I am a child. {7} ¶ But the LORD said unto me, Say not, I am a child: for thou shalt go to all that I shall send thee, and whatsoever I command thee thou shalt speak."

Jeremiah never prayed for this.. He was a kid at the time...

Yes, there are certain things God has determined ahead of time to accomplish his purpose. There are other things that he has not determined and has chosen not to know until man makes the decision when confronted with his word.