Sunday Worship?

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Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
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#61
The sabbath is but a shadow.

It is a shadow of the grace gospel era in which we now live, God rested on the seventh day, He has done everything He is going to do to save mankind ... we have entered His rest.
Paul saying that God's holy are foreshadows of what is to come was emphasizing the importance of testifying about what is to come by continuing to observe them. In Hebrews 3:18-19, they did not enter into God's rest because of their disobedience/unbelief, and in Ezekiel 20:13, it specifically mentions that they greatly profaned God's Sabbaths. In Hebrews 4:9-11, there remain a Sabbath rest for the people of God, we should rest from our works as God rested from His, and we should strive to enter into that rest so that no one may fall away by the same sort of disobedience, so entering into God's rest should not be used to justify disobeying God's command to keep the Sabbath holy.
 
Sep 28, 2023
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#62
Obeying Leviticus 23:15-16 does not mean that we should disobey Leviticus 23:1-2.
This is not a requirement for salvation under the New Covenant... if it was then Jesus and His Apostles failed to teach that is was... meaning God's Word is in error if following Leviticus 23:1-2 is still a requirement to be in right standing with the Lord.



The Colossians were keeping God's feasts in obedience to His commands in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow
Yeah, unfortunately your claim is not true because Jesus and His Apostles failed to teach that is was...
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
847
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#63
This is not a requirement for salvation under the New Covenant... if it was then Jesus and His Apostles failed to teach that is was... meaning God's Word is in error if following Leviticus 23:1-2 is still a requirement to be in right standing with the Lord.
In Psalms 119:29-30, he wanted to put false ways far from him, for God to be gracious to him by teaching him to obey His law, and he chose the way of faithfulness by setting it before him, so this has always been the one and only way of salvation by grace through faith. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of God's law (1 John 3:4), so while we are not required to have first obeyed it in order to earn our salvation, living in obedience to it through faith in Jesus is nevertheless intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not living in obedience to it, For example, keeping the Sabbath holy through faith in Jesus is intrinsically part of the concept of him saving us from not keeping the Sabbath holy, so it is a requirement.

Yeah, unfortunately your claim is not true because Jesus and His Apostles failed to teach that is was...
In Matthew 4:15-23, Jesus began his ministry with the Gospel message to repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand, which was a light to the Gentiles, and God's law was how his audience knew what sin is (Romans 3:20), so repenting from our disobedience to it is a central part of the Gospel message. Furthermore, Jesus set a sinless example of how to walk in obedience to God's law and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (John 2:6). So Jesus spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey God's law by word and by example and the Colossians were acting in accordance with what he taught. Perhaps the error is not in what Jesus and his Apostles taught, but in your understanding of what they taught.
 
Sep 28, 2023
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#64
You're confusing the OT law with the Law of Christ....

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.

Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Law of Christ
The phrase "the law of Christ" appears only in Galatians 6:2, although it is implied by the wording of 1 Corinthians 9:21 as well. In both places, its precise meaning is difficult to fix. In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).

He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.

By way of illustration Paul says in verses 19-23 that he adopts certain Jewish customs when among Jews, although he is not under the Jewish law, and that he adopts some Gentile customs when among Gentiles, although he is not without the law of God but rather "in the law of Christ" (ennomos Christou).

It seems fairly clear from these two texts that Paul uses the phrase to mean something other than the law given to Israel at Sinai and considered by most Jews to be their special possession.
Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB).

If we take this passage to refer to the Messiah, then we could paraphrase it by saying that the Christ, when he comes, will teach God's law to the Gentiles ("the coastlands"). Jeremiah 31:31-34 similarly predicts the coming of a time in which disobedient Israel will receive a new covenant, consisting of a law written on the heart and therefore obeyed (cf. Ezek 36:26-27 ).

Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ). On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).

Paul believed that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ marked the beginning point of God's new covenant ( 2 Cor 3:1-18 ; Gal 4:21-31 ; cf. Rom 8:2 ). Like Isaiah, he believed that this covenant included the Gentiles ( Gal 3:7-20 ), and like Jeremiah he believed that it offered Israel a remedy for the curse that the old Sinaitic covenant pronounced on Israel's disobedience ( Gal 3:10-13 ).

In light of this, Paul may have understood the teaching of Christ as a new law. If so, then the correspondence between the ethical teaching of Jesus and Paul on many points (e.g., 1 Cor 7:10-11 / Mark 10:2-9 ; 1 Cor 9:14 / Luke 10:7 ; Rom 14:1-23 / Mark 7:18-19 ) is a matter of Paul's intention rather than happy accident. Paul's own admonition to fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens provides both a pithy restatement of Jesus' summary of the law and an indication that Jesus' teaching fulfills prophetic expectations.
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
847
101
43
#65
You're confusing the OT law with the Law of Christ....
Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example, so I don't see a good reason to think that the Law of Christ is something other than or contrary to what Christ taught. God is not in disagreement with Himself about which law we should follow, so the Law of Christ is the same as the Law of the Spirit and the Law of the Father, which was given to Moses. In 1 Corinthians 9:21, Paul used a parallel statement to equated the Law of God with the Law of Christ, and the Bible refers to the Law of Moses as the Law of God in verses like Nehemiah 8:1-8, Ezra 7:6-12, and Luke 2:22-23..

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.
The Law of Moses is perfect (Psalms 19:7), it is of liberty (Psalms 119:45), and it blesses those who obey it (Psalms 119:1-3), so when James 1:25 speaks about the perfect law of liberty that blesses those who obey it, he was not saying anything about the Law of Moses that was not already said in the Psalms. In Jeremiah 31:33, the New Covenant involves God putting the Mosaic Law in our minds and writing it on our hearts, and in Ezekiel 36:26-27, it involves the Spirit leading us to obey it.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.
Christ walked in obedience to the Mosaic Law, and in 1 John 2:6, those who abide in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. In Romans 8:4-7, those who walk in the Spirit are contrasted with those who have minds set on the flesh who are enemies of God who refuse to submit to the Law of God, which again refers to the Law of Moses.

Law of Christ
The phrase "the law of Christ" appears only in Galatians 6:2, although it is implied by the wording of 1 Corinthians 9:21 as well. In both places, its precise meaning is difficult to fix. In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).
Galatians should not be interpreted as Paul speaking against following Christ. In Acts 5:32, the Spirit has been given to those who obey God, so obedience to God is part of the way to receive the Spirit, however, Galatians 3:1-2 denies that "works of the law" are part of the way to receive the Spirit, therefore that phrase does not refer to obedience to God. Furthermore, in Romans 3:27-31, Paul contracted a law of works with a law of faith, so works of the law are of works while he said that our faith upholds God's law, so it is of faith, and a law that our faith upholds can't be referring to the same thing as the works of the law that are not of faith in Galatians 3:10-14.

In Galatians 3:16-19, a newer covenant does not nullify the promise of a covenant that has already been ratified, so the New Covenant does not nullify our need to obey the Mosaic Law in connection with the promise. In Matthew 7:23, Jesus said that he would tell those who are workers of lawlessness to depart from him because he never knew them, so in regard to Galatians 3:20-25, the Mosaic Law leads us to Christ because it teaches us how to know him, but it does not lead us to Christ so that we can we can then reject what he taught and go back to living in sin.

In Galatians 3:25-29, every aspect of being children of God, through faith, in Christ, and children of Abraham and heirs to the promise is directly connected with living in obedience to the Mosaic Law. In 1 John 3:4-10, those who do not practice righteousness in obedience to the Mosaic Law are not children of God. In 1 John 2:6, those who are in Christ are obligated to walk in the same way he walked. In Matthew 23:23, Jesus said that faith is one of the weightier matters of the Mosaic Law. In John 8:39, Jesus said that if they were children of Abraham, then they would be doing the same works that he did, and the works that they should be doing were in obedience to the Mosaic Law.

If God freed the Israelites out of bondage in Egypt in order to put them under bondage to the Mosaic Law, then it would be for bondage that God sets us free, however, Galatians 5:1 says that it is for freedom that God sets us free, so you are not correctly identifying what Paul is speaking against in Galatians. It should not make sense to you to interpret Galatians as speaking against obeying God's commands.

He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.
In Galatians 5:19-23, everything listed as works of the flesh that are against the Spirit are also against the Mosaic Law while all of the fruits

It seems fairly clear from these two texts that Paul uses the phrase to mean something other than the law given to Israel at Sinai and considered by most Jews to be their special possession. Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB).
The Mosaic Law was not given to Israel so that they would deprive the nations of getting to keep it, but in order to equip them to be a light and a blessing to the nations by turning them from their wickedness and teaching them to keep it in accordance with the promise and with spreading the Gospel. The coastlands should eagerly expect the Mosaic Law instead of rejecting it.

Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ). On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).
In Deuteronomy 4:2, it is a sin to add to or subtract from the Mosaic Law, so Jesus did not fashion his own law, but rather the sum of everything taught by word and by example was in regard to how to practice Judaism in obedience to the Mosaic Law. For example, everything that Jesus taught in Matthew 5 was rooted in the OT. In Mark 7:17-19, Jesus was speaking against being made common by eating bread with unwashed hands, which has nothing to do with making any of his eternal commands obsolete. In Matthew 22:36-40, Jesus said that all of the other commandments hang on the greatest two commandments, so if you think that the greatest two commandments should be obeyed, then you should also think that we should obey all of the commandments that hang on them. Jesus clarifying what it means to love our neighbor was not making changes to the Mosaic Law.

Paul believed that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ marked the beginning point of God's new covenant ( 2 Cor 3:1-18 ; Gal 4:21-31 ; cf. Rom 8:2 ). Like Isaiah, he believed that this covenant included the Gentiles ( Gal 3:7-20 ), and like Jeremiah he believed that it offered Israel a remedy for the curse that the old Sinaitic covenant pronounced on Israel's disobedience ( Gal 3:10-13 ).
In Jeremiah 31:31, the New Covenant was only made with the house of Judah and the house of Israel, so it is only through faith in Christ that Gentiles are able to partake of the New Covenant through becoming joined to Israel. The only way out from being cursed living in disobedience to the Mosaic Law is through repenting and returning to obedience to it through faith in Christ.

In light of this, Paul may have understood the teaching of Christ as a new law. If so, then the correspondence between the ethical teaching of Jesus and Paul on many points (e.g., 1 Cor 7:10-11 / Mark 10:2-9 ; 1 Cor 9:14 / Luke 10:7 ; Rom 14:1-23 / Mark 7:18-19 ) is a matter of Paul's intention rather than happy accident. Paul's own admonition to fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens provides both a pithy restatement of Jesus' summary of the law and an indication that Jesus' teaching fulfills prophetic expectations.
Christ did not teach any brand new laws, but spent his ministry teaching to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example.
 
Sep 28, 2023
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#66
Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law
False!

Luke 16:16
The law and the prophets were until John: since that time the kingdom of God is preached, and every man presseth into it.


Jesus taught the Gospel of the Kingdom... not the OT law to His followers

You are still confused concerning the difference between the OT law and the Law of Christ.

Hebrews 10:9
Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God. He taketh away the first, that he may establish the second.


Since you are trying to keep the OT law... you are now required to keep ALL the law... that won't end well... just ask the Galatians!

Galatians 5:4
Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace.



The Law of Moses is perfect (Psalms 19:7),
But, it could not turn sinners in to saints!

Galatians 3:21
if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.


Your law thingy bob isn't working out to well and is no longer applicable (Hebrews 10:9) because the Law of Christ is what New Testament believers live under.

You should become a New Testament believer and get born again!
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,184
6,605
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62
#67
You're confusing the OT law with the Law of Christ....

In the New Testament, many mentions of “the law” is actually referring to Law of Christ (aka the Law of Liberty) and is not talking about the old testament law. Christians are NOT called to keep or live under the old testament law, but we ARE called to live under the Law of Christ.

Ultimately this means we are called to abide In Christ which is living after the Spirit and not after the flesh, or to be spiritually minded and not carnally minded (see Romans 8). As we see in Romans 8, to be spiritually minded is life and peace but to be carnally minded is death which is separation from the Lord.

Galatians 6:2
Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

Law of Christ
The phrase "the law of Christ" appears only in Galatians 6:2, although it is implied by the wording of 1 Corinthians 9:21 as well. In both places, its precise meaning is difficult to fix. In Galatians, Paul argues vigorously that the law given at Sinai makes no claim on those who believe in Christ, whether Gentile or Jew ( 2:15-21 ; Galatians 3:10-14 Galatians 3:23-26 ; 4:4-5 ; 4:21-5:6).

He then appeals to the Galatians to engage in ethical behavior by walking in the Spirit ( 5:16 Galatians 16 ), being lead by the Spirit ( 5:18 ), and fulfilling "the law of Christ" (ho nomos tou Christou) through bearing one another's burdens ( 6:2 ). In 1 Corinthians 9 Paul demonstrates how Christians should, out of love for the weaker brother or sister, refrain from demanding their rights.

By way of illustration Paul says in verses 19-23 that he adopts certain Jewish customs when among Jews, although he is not under the Jewish law, and that he adopts some Gentile customs when among Gentiles, although he is not without the law of God but rather "in the law of Christ" (ennomos Christou).

It seems fairly clear from these two texts that Paul uses the phrase to mean something other than the law given to Israel at Sinai and considered by most Jews to be their special possession.
Help is found in the prophets. In Isaiah 42:1-4 we read that God's chosen servant will one day establish justice throughout the earth and that "the coastlands will wait expectantly for His law" (NASB).

If we take this passage to refer to the Messiah, then we could paraphrase it by saying that the Christ, when he comes, will teach God's law to the Gentiles ("the coastlands"). Jeremiah 31:31-34 similarly predicts the coming of a time in which disobedient Israel will receive a new covenant, consisting of a law written on the heart and therefore obeyed (cf. Ezek 36:26-27 ).

Jesus' teaching, although standing in continuity with the law given at Sinai, nevertheless sovereignly fashions a new law. In some instances Jesus sharpens commandments ( Matt 5:17-48 ) and in others considers them obsolete ( Mark 7:17-19 ). On one occasion, having been asked to identify the greatest commandment, Jesus concurs with the Jewish wisdom of his time ( Mark 12:32-33 ) that the greatest commandments are to love God supremely and to love one's neighbor as oneself ( Mark 12:28-31 ). He breaks with tradition, however, by defining the term "neighbor" to mean even the despised Samaritan ( Luke 10:29-37 ).

Paul believed that the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Christ marked the beginning point of God's new covenant ( 2 Cor 3:1-18 ; Gal 4:21-31 ; cf. Rom 8:2 ). Like Isaiah, he believed that this covenant included the Gentiles ( Gal 3:7-20 ), and like Jeremiah he believed that it offered Israel a remedy for the curse that the old Sinaitic covenant pronounced on Israel's disobedience ( Gal 3:10-13 ).

In light of this, Paul may have understood the teaching of Christ as a new law. If so, then the correspondence between the ethical teaching of Jesus and Paul on many points (e.g., 1 Cor 7:10-11 / Mark 10:2-9 ; 1 Cor 9:14 / Luke 10:7 ; Rom 14:1-23 / Mark 7:18-19 ) is a matter of Paul's intention rather than happy accident. Paul's own admonition to fulfill the law of Christ by bearing one another's burdens provides both a pithy restatement of Jesus' summary of the law and an indication that Jesus' teaching fulfills prophetic expectations.
The keeping of any law can only be done by walking in the Spirit...Galatians 5:16. So energy is wasted by trying to keep the law through personal endeavor. Relax...walk in the Spirit...let Jesus do the work. This is yoke Jesus is offering...Matthew 11:28-30.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,114
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#68
it does not establish that this was the start of a new tradition, and even it was, this does not establish that they hypocritically set aside God's command to keep the Sabbath holy in order to establish their own tradition, and even if they had, it wouldn't establish that we should follow their example of sin.
you sabbath-keepers just amaze me.
Scripture clearly shows that the believers met on the first day of the week to break bread. The first century apostolic fathers mention that the church met on the first day of the week.
Yet, you think you know better than all the disciples, historians, and scholars that have come since then? EVERYONE has had it wrong up until you came along.... SMH...... How arrogant of you.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
7,114
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#69
Col 2:16 Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath:
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.

The Sabbath was one of many things that were shadows of things to come which means they would be fulfilled and replaced with something much greater.
Yes..... this

If you personally choose to keep the sabbath holy, that is your call. Holy means "set apart".... so, keeping the sabbath holy will mean different things to different people.
You follow your conscience....
 
Sep 28, 2023
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#70
The keeping of any law can only be done by walking in the Spirit...Galatians 5:16. So energy is wasted by trying to keep the law through personal endeavor. Relax...walk in the Spirit...let Jesus do the work. This is yoke Jesus is offering...Matthew 11:28-30.
You should tell that to the guy who is claiming Christians are supposed to be living under the OT law!
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
847
101
43
#71
you sabbath-keepers just amaze me.
Scripture clearly shows that the believers met on the first day of the week to break bread. The first century apostolic fathers mention that the church met on the first day of the week.
Yet, you think you know better than all the disciples, historians, and scholars that have come since then? EVERYONE has had it wrong up until you came along.... SMH...... How arrogant of you.
Acts 2:46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they received their food with glad and generous hearts,

They attended the temple together and broke bread together on every day of the week, but there is nothing about this that means that they weren't also obeying God's command to keep the Sabbath holy in accordance with the example that Christ set for us to follow, and there is nothing about obeying God's command to do that that prohibits them from eating bread together on the 1st day of the week.

In Acts 21:20, they were rejoicing that tens of thousands of Jews were coming to faith who were all zealous for the Torah, which is in accordance with coming to believe in what Jesus accomplished through the cross (Titus 2:14), so Jews coming to faith were not ceasing to practice Judaism. This means that there was a period of time between the resurrection of Jesus and the inclusion of Gentiles that is estimated to be around 7-15 years during which all Christians were Torah observant Jews. This means that Christianity at its origin was the form of Judaism that recognized Jesus as its prophesied Messiah, and this is the form of Christianity that I seek by faith to practice. So no, not everyone got it wrong until I came along, and there are many scholars who agree with my position. There is nothing inherently arrogant about thinking that others are wrong just as you are not inherently arrogant for thinking that I am wrong. Our concern should not be with what is popular, but with what is true, and the Mosaic Law is truth (Psalms 119:142), which is the truth that Jesus embodied (John 14:6).
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
847
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#72
The keeping of any law can only be done by walking in the Spirit...Galatians 5:16. So energy is wasted by trying to keep the law through personal endeavor. Relax...walk in the Spirit...let Jesus do the work. This is yoke Jesus is offering...Matthew 11:28-30.
God's instructions was never intended to be something that we obeyed on our own apart from God, but rather relying on God's instructions is the ay to rely on God. Jesus walked in obedience to the Mosaic Law and in Matthew 11:28-30, he was inviting people to come to him and to learn from him, not inviting people to reject his example. By Jesus saying that we would find rest for our souls, he was referencing Jeremiah 6:16-19, where the Mosaic Law is described as the good way where we will find rest for our souls.
 
Sep 28, 2023
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#73
there is nothing about this that means that they weren't also obeying God's command to keep the Sabbath holy
But, Jesus and His Apostles never ever taught... those who don't observe on Saturday will burn in hell.

In other words, this is not required for salvation at all..
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
847
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#74
Yes..... this

If you personally choose to keep the sabbath holy, that is your call. Holy means "set apart".... so, keeping the sabbath holy will mean different things to different people.
You follow your conscience....
God has not command anyone to fast twice a week, so that is an example of something that is optional that we have the freedom to decide whether or not to do in accordance with out conscience, however, where God has commanded human opinion must yield, so keeping God's holy days is not optional, but rather disobedience to His law is sin (1 John 3:4).

In Colossians 2:16, it leaves room for two options:

1.) The Colossians were not keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by Jews because they were not keeping them, and Paul was saying not to let anyone judge them.

2.) The Colossians were keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by pagans because they were keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and prevent them from obeying God.

In Colossians 2:20-23, Paul described the people who were judging the Colossians as teaching human traditions and precepts, self-made religion, asceticism, and severity to the body, which that they were being judged by pagans and that option 2.) is the case. So it is ironic when people try to use this passage to justify their refusal to obey God. You should be more careful not to mistake what was only said against obeying the teachings of men as being against obeying the commands of God.
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
847
101
43
#75
But, Jesus and His Apostles never ever taught... those who don't observe on Saturday will burn in hell.

In other words, this is not required for salvation at all..
Jesus would have still taught how to walk in obedience to the Mosaic Law by example even if he had the Apostles hadn't repeated a single command, and we are told to follow his example (1 Peter 2:21-22) and that those who are in Christ are are obligated to walk in the same way he walked (1 John 2:6). It is by the Mosaic Law that we have knowledge of sin (Romans 3:20) and it is false that Jesus and the Apostles never taught repentance from sin. Our salvation is from sin (Matthew 1:21) and sin is the transgression of the Mosaic Law (1 John 3:4), so living in obedience to it is intrinsically part of the concept of being saved from not living in obedience to it. I did not claim that those who don't keep the 7th day holy will burn in hell, but it might be the case, I do not know, but hope not, God is the judge, not me.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#76
"Why do you compel the Gentiles to Judaize?" Galatians 2:14
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
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#77
"Why do you compel the Gentiles to Judaize?" Galatians 2:14
Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and Paul's problem with the Judaizers was not that they were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ, but that they were wanting to require Gentiles to obey works of the law in order to become justified, so I completely agree with Paul's stance against the Judaizers.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
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#78
Christ spent his ministry teaching his followers to obey the Mosaic Law by word and by example and Paul's problem with the Judaizers was not that they were teaching Gentiles how to follow Christ, but that they were wanting to require Gentiles to obey works of the law in order to become justified, so I completely agree with Paul's stance against the Judaizers.
"Why do you compel the Gentiles to Judaize?" Galatians 2:14
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
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#79
"Why do you compel the Gentiles to Judaize?" Galatians 2:14
I do not. In Acts 15:1, the position of the Judaizers was that Gentiles should be required to have first become circumcised in order to become saved, which is not a position that I have ever supported, and I completely agree with the Jerusalem Council's ruling against that position.
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
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#80
2.) The Colossians were keeping God's holy days, they were being judged by pagans because they were keeping them, and Paul was encouraging them not to let any man judge them and prevent them from obeying God.
Or, some chose to keep the sabbaths, and some did not. The Colossians were being taught that those kinds of beliefs were not important enough to argue or divide over.
All of Christianity is based on freedom from sin. Freedom to choose, and the requirement to follow our own conscience on most things.
Getting away from the rigid "rules" was one of the prime benefits of having Jesus become our sacrificial lamb....