Israel Declares War

tobewholeagain · Nov 3, 2023

da smoke is full of shit
Gods promise to the Jews came with conditions that His chosen broke and broke an broke until God said---

Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.
& so; it is being done in your lifetime;

According to a 2002 study by the Jewish Agency, "the number of Jews in the world is declining at an average of 50,000 per year."

https://tinyurl.com/y6ryw6hf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_population
Going, going, going--- gone
https://enacademic.com/dic.nsf/enwiki/632839
The Vanishing American Jew (nytimes.com)
Europe’s Jewish population | Pew Research Center
My advice is to start having babies.

But please, do not take my advice!!!!!

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Smoke · Nov 3, 2023

ZNP said:

The false narrative is that anyone (anti-conscription) would "expect" someone to enlist in the military (to protect him/her). However, if people do voluntarily enlist (not out of expectation but out of free will), then because the anti-conscription person is a tax paying citizen, he would have the right to expect that person to defend him/her.

I think we would all agree to this?

ZNP · Nov 3, 2023

Smoke said:

If the US is attacked we have about 1/20th the military we would need to defend ourselves, and since no one is trained we would probably need 40x the men we have now. You think that will happen if everyone is "anti conscription"? This is where the rubber meets the road. I may prefer not to be conscripted, but if we are attacked it is time to discard childish dreams.

For example they estimate 8 million illegal immigrants have entered the US in the last 2 1/2 years, about 80% are military aged males. If this were an invading force, 6 million outnumbers the entire US military.

Smoke · Nov 3, 2023

tobewholeagain said:

Sometimes I misread people's posts or I misunderstand them. I'm going to assume you did this unintentionally, so I don't take any offense.

I NEVER claimed I support Israel doing all the things in the terms of service. If you watch the video from the link Brother @PennEd posted, you'll understand that there was a "Terms and Conditions" that was given to people who wanted to sign a petition to support Hamas freeing Palestinians. The guy then proceeded to recite several proclamations Hamas has made. To be fair, I think one should be done for support for Israel doing what they are doing and then proceeded to create a list of things they need to explicitly state before saying they support Israel doing what they are doing.

"...there should be a "terms and conditions" for Israel's "right to self-defense" and their current strategy in "targeting" Hamas, too, though. "

tobewholeagain · Nov 3, 2023

cv5 said:

SCATTER THEN GATHERED THEN JUDGED

First, they were scattered.
(Jer 24:9 KJV) And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them.

Second, they were gathered for judgment.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

King James Bible
And God said unto him, Thy name is Jacob: thy name shall not be called any more Jacob, but Israel shall be thy name: and he called his name Israel.

(Ezek 36:17 KJV) Son of man, when the house of Israel dwelt in their own land, they defiled it by their ..own way and by their doings: their way was before me as the uncleanness of a removed woman.

(Ezek 36:18 KJV) Wherefore I poured my fury upon them for the blood that they had shed upon the land, and for their idols wherewith they had polluted it.

(Ezek 36:22 KJV) Therefore say unto the house of Israel, Thus saith the Lord GOD; I do not this for your sakes, O house of Israel, but for mine holy name's sake, which ye have profaned among the heathen, whither ye went.

(Ezek 36:24 KJV) For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

(Ezek 36:31 KJV) Then shall ye remember your own evil ways, and your doings that were not good, and shall loathe yourselves in your own sight for your iniquities and for your abominations.

(Ezek 36:32 KJV) Not for your sakes do I this, saith the Lord GOD, be it known unto you: be ashamed and confounded for your own ways, O house of Israel.

Then the Lord, God Tells the Israeli that He has had enough, and so it will be done; in our lifetime.
And last but not least, the Lord God removes them from their memory

King James Bible
Ezekiel 21:32
Thou shalt be for fuel to the fire; thy blood shall be in the midst of the land; thou shalt be no more remembered: for I the LORD have spoken it.
THE END

Smoke · Nov 3, 2023

ZNP said:

You're speculating on a scenario that has no relevance to the conversation though. Let's say your speculation is entirely true for a minute. The US needs more people. The anti-conscription person still isn't going to expect someone to enlist. He/she is also subject to defense for the people who do volunteer (even though we would need more) because he is a tax payer. This debunks the attempt at making the anti-conscription person to be a hypocrite.

tobewholeagain · Nov 3, 2023

Moses_Young said:

I totally agree but being disgusted is not enough.

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Smoke · Nov 3, 2023

Smoke said:

Sometimes I misread people's posts or I misunderstand them. I'm going to assume you did this unintentionally, so I don't take any offense.

I NEVER claimed I support Israel doing all the things in the terms of service. If you watch the video from the link Brother @PennEd posted, you'll understand that there was a "Terms and Conditions" that was given to people who wanted to sign a petition to support Hamas freeing Palestinians. The guy then proceeded to recite several proclamations Hamas has made. To be fair, I think one should be done for support for Israel doing what they are doing and then proceeded to create a list of things they need to explicitly state before saying they support Israel doing what they are doing.

"...there should be a "terms and conditions" for Israel's "right to self-defense" and their current strategy in "targeting" Hamas, too, though. "

So many grammatical errors. Hopefully you can understand what I was trying to say. lol

cv5 · Nov 3, 2023

tobewholeagain said:

Isa 11:11-16

Isa 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day (the near future DOTL), that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Isa 11:12
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isa 11:13
The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

Isa 11:14
But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

Isa 11:15
And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

Isa 11:16
And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

cv5 · Nov 3, 2023

cv5 said:

Isa 11:11-16

Isa 11:11
And it shall come to pass in that day (the near future DOTL), that the Lord shall set his hand again the second time to recover the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria, and from Egypt, and from Pathros, and from Cush, and from Elam, and from Shinar, and from Hamath, and from the islands of the sea.

Isa 11:12
And he shall set up an ensign for the nations, and shall assemble the outcasts of Israel, and gather together the dispersed of Judah from the four corners of the earth.

Isa 11:13
The envy also of Ephraim shall depart, and the adversaries of Judah shall be cut off: Ephraim shall not envy Judah, and Judah shall not vex Ephraim.

Isa 11:14
But they shall fly upon the shoulders of the Philistines toward the west; they shall spoil them of the east together: they shall lay their hand upon Edom and Moab; and the children of Ammon shall obey them.

Isa 11:15
And the LORD shall utterly destroy the tongue of the Egyptian sea; and with his mighty wind shall he shake his hand over the river, and shall smite it in the seven streams, and make men go over dryshod.

Isa 11:16
And there shall be an highway for the remnant of his people, which shall be left, from Assyria; like as it was to Israel in the day that he came up out of the land of Egypt.

Same day....the DOTL.

Isa 27:12
And it shall come to pass in that day, that the LORD shall beat off from the channel of the river unto the stream of Egypt, and ye shall be gathered one by one, O ye children of Israel.

ZNP · Nov 3, 2023

Smoke said:

Of course this is relevant to someone who is "anti conscription". You don't have a conscription unless you need it. So anyone who is anti conscription is against being required to help defend the country when needed. Nor is this hypothetical since Biden is already talking about a draft and many young people are already being very vocal about refusing to be drafted.

Magenta · Nov 3, 2023

Moses_Young said:

Paying taxes is supposed to be in exchange for services, including defense. So those paying taxes have a right to certain services, including the expectation a government will protect them from invasion, whether or not such taxpayers are against slavery (such as conscription is).

Just because I (or anyone else) might require a government to do it's job (i.e. provide defense for the nation), it doesn't mean I support it committing crimes against humanity (e.g. slavery) in order for this government to meet this obligation. And just because it might commit crimes against humanity to meet this obligation doesn't mean I waive my expectation for said government to do its job, nor acquit it or the perpetrators from being held to account for committing crimes against humanity.

Reality wise, though, I don't believe conscription is ever really used for defense (or at least, a good defense). Most people will defend their homes, if their homes are worth defending. Conscription is used to enslave men to fight (and preferably die) in another man's war for profit.

Also, I would much rather not pay taxes and not be defended by a government against enemy attack than the alternative, because I know that in the event of a real enemy attack, the government will keep the taxes I paid, but only defend me and my property if profitable (and it almost never is, as the government has already got its taxes).

So the answer is yes, you would expect others to "slave" for you despite your refusal to "slave" for them.

Taxes had nothing to do with the question. Guess you missed that.

Adelia · Nov 3, 2023

Smoke said:

Anyone in their right might that wants to "support Hamas" do ANYTHING doesn't know anything about what is going on or what Hamas actually is. Hamas should be eradicated from the earth.

I feel like there should be a "terms and conditions" for Israel's "right to self-defense" and their current strategy in "targeting" Hamas, too, though.

Terms and Conditions

I hereby support Israel in doing whatever is necessary to target Hamas enemy combatants, including:

1.) Obliterating more children than Hamas enemy combatants
2.) Carpet bombing Gaza
3.) Bombing areas Israel promised would be safe if they evacuated to
4.) Cutting off power, food, water into Gaza
5.) Continuing it's occupation and settling of the West Bank and East Jerusalem which no international entity recognizes Israel's sovereignty over (including the US)

I could list more but that should be sufficient to get the point. I'm sure many would still sign it and do so unapologetically.

Israel will once again become God's chosen people when He gathers them back: but today it is not under Netantahu

ThereRoseaLamb · Nov 3, 2023

tobewholeagain said:

You need to change your favorite Bible verse, it doesn't match your heart.

Smoke · Nov 3, 2023

ZNP said:

I think I found the misunderstanding in the given scenario. You are assigning "draft evading" to the person against conscription while also being drafted after an attack on the US. So let me write the givens in the proposed scenario so we can discuss if the person is a coward or not.

Given:

1.) John is against conscription.
2.) US is attacked and John is drafted.
3.) John decides to be a draft evader but expects other people to enlist in the military and/or not to be a draft evader and protect/defend him.

Yes, I think most people would agree John is a coward and a hypocrite with those three givens.

Just a few reminders though:
1.) You can be against conscription but decide to fight if drafted (not become a draft evader).
2.) Women can be against conscription and not ever be drafted.
3.) Because of 1 & 2, there was confusion on why John would expect anyone to fight for him simply because he's against conscription. The givens weren't clear in the proposed scenario but now it makes sense.

In @Moses_Young 's defense though, I believe he explicitly stated he would rather die on his feet than live on his knees. So while he might be against conscription, I think most other people who are also against conscription would feel similarly to Brother Moses. I don't think it's a given that because one is against conscription they are going to be a draft evader, especially in a scenario where there is an attack or invasion.

ZNP · Nov 3, 2023

Smoke said:

I think I found the misunderstanding in the given scenario. You are assigning "draft evading" to the anti-conscription person when he is drafted after an attack on the US. So let me write the givens in the proposed scenario so we can discuss if the person is a coward or not.

Given:

1.) John is against conscription.
2.) US is attack and John is drafted.
3.) John decides to be a draft evader but expects other people to enlist in the military and/or not to be a draft evader and protect/defend him.

Yes, I think most people would agree John is a coward and a hypocrite with those three givens.

Just a few reminders though:
1.) You can be against conscription but decide to fight if drafted (not become a draft evader).
2.) Women can be against conscription and not ever be drafted.
3.) Because of 1 & 2, there was confusion on why John would expect anyone to fight for him simply because he's against conscription. The givens weren't clear in the proposed scenario but now it makes sense.

In @Moses_Young 's defense though, I believe he explicitly stated he would rather die on his feet than live on his knees. So while he might be against conscription, I think most other people who are also against conscription would feel similarly to Brother Moses. I don't think it's a given that because one is against conscription they are going to be a draft evader, especially in a scenario where there is an attack or invasion.

No one wants to be drafted. The way you define being against conscription is so broad that the term is meaningless. Even those who volunteer are not for the draft. Because of that being against conscription is equated with being a draft dodger because that is where the discussion started. Biden floated the idea of a draft and people said they were against the draft and would go to prison first.

Adelia · Nov 3, 2023

Adelia said:

I never said and I do not support Hammas. I do believe that Hammas and Israel are equally guilty of the same offenses. Please do not accuse me ofthings I did not say. Thank you in advance sir,

Smoke · Nov 3, 2023

ZNP said:

No, I'm defining someone against conscription accurately:

So someone opposed to "compulsory enlistment for state service, typically into the armed forces" isn't merely "not wanting to be drafted"... He/she is against the idea of being forced to enlist even if they weren't drafted (women don't get drafted, neither do children or senior citizens).

It just seems like someone was conflating being "against conscription" to being a "draft evader" and so I wasn't assuming the person was also avoiding the draft. If you read the previous messages, it wasn't explicitly stated or hinted. No worries, we agree in that given scenario he is a coward and hypocrite.

TaraSkye · Nov 3, 2023

I'm so sad about the whole thing, I am actually depressed and seeking therapy about it. I hope and pray for peace for all.

Smoke · Nov 3, 2023

TaraSkye said:

Yes, most people who are in favor of targeting Hamas by blowing up and killing more children than Hamas terrorists and people in favor of an alternative plan to target Hamas in a more discriminate way feel terrible about this.

Isaiah 41:10
"So do not fear, for I am with you; do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you; I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. "

John 14:27
"Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you. Let not your heart be troubled, neither let it be afraid."

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