How can this be?

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Sep 28, 2023
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#41
That's a very bold statement indeed! What if it's not true? I agree that EVERY denomination has churches that are in error (even MOST of them), but to claim EVERY SINGLE ONE is FULL of deception and untruth is a very bold statement indeed!
Apparently you have not studied God's Word to see what the Lord said about the endtimes... where many false teachers would come forth and deceive many.

Yeah, all the denominations teach false doctrine.



could explain how the Apostasy is able to happen.
It absolutely DOES explain the apostasy going on today... the biggest false doctrine is OSAS teaching were they'll claim even if someone was apostate, they still go to Heaven! Amazing.

This is what their boy Gnarly Charlie Stanley taught and he's recognized by the OSAS peoples as their ring leader! They all idolize this guy as being a great teacher! clueless-doh.gif

In his book, Eternal Security, Stanley says

"Even if a believer for all practical purposes becomes an unbeliever, his salvation is not in jeopardy” (Chapter 10, p. 93)

“Christ will not deny an unbelieving Christian his or her salvation because to do so would be to deny Himself” (p. 94).

“Believers who lose or abandon their faith will retain their salvation, for God remains faithful” (p. 94)

He actually taught one can be a "gay christian" and still go to Heaven proving he is a false teacher!

Here's a video where you can see video of Charlies saying this (just a few minutes into the video)

In this video, Gnarly Charlie says he's proud of Andy and supports him after heresy charges

Can a Person Live a Life of Sin and Remain Saved?
 
Sep 28, 2023
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#42
That is not a personal attack.
Yeah, that's always their polyester man argument when someone points out they false doctrine... "you are attacking me personally" and then they go to their safe place to eat popsicles and pet puppies doggies!

If they truly believes their doctrine was true and correct, they wouldn't get so upset when someone tells them they are following doctrines of demons. Getting all upset demonstrates they don't actually believe in the doctrines that they espouse up in they house.

We should remember "the beam" and "the mote".
Yeah the OSAS peoples got a gimongous been in their eye!

beam_in_eye.gif
 

Bob-Carabbio

Well-known member
Jun 24, 2020
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#43
My question is this. Today we have thousands of Protestant churches, all claiming to guided by the Holy Spirit, and yet all teaching something different.
How can this be? Either the Holy Spirit is very confused (Not likely), or these churches are confused. Which is it? How do I answer this question?
It's called "Theology" lots of people generating their OWN opinions about what the Bible says, without the Holy Spirit necessarily being involved in any of it. You could PROBABLY make a denomination over the color of the carpet in the sanctuary.
 
G

Gojira

Guest
#44
We see through a glass darkly. Our vision is not perfect, so like an ink blotter test, we will interpret some things differently. What matters are core issues, like the Source of our salvation and righteousness, and that Jesus walked out of His own grave. As much as I disagree with aspects of Catholic theology, I've met Catholics whom I believe are saved. God knows the heart of each individual.

What strikes me as error are those who say that unless you are doing things their way, as they interpret the Bible, Jimmy, you are in danger of Hell. That would seem to be the beginning of a cult more than anything else.
 
Sep 28, 2023
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#45
Yep, it's called the Carpet Color Fellowship!

This is the only true doctrine according to God's Word... because it IS God's Word!

1 Corinthians 9:21
To them that are without law, as without law, (being not without law to God, but under the law to Christ,) that I might gain them that are without law.

Galatians 6:2
Bear one another’s burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ.

James 2:12
So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.

James 1:25
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein, he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed.

2 John 1:9
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Hebrews 6:1
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,

Acts 2:42
And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.
 
Sep 28, 2023
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#46
Doctrine of The Apostles

Acts 2:36-42 (ESV) – Apostles Doctrine
Let all the house of Israel therefore know for certain that God has made him both Lord and Christ, this Jesus whom you crucified.” Now when they heard this they were cut to the heart, and said to Peter and the rest of the apostles, “Brothers, what shall we do?” And Peter said to them, “Repent and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins, and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is for you and for your children and for all who are far off, everyone whom the Lord our God calls to himself.” And with many other words he bore witness and continued to exhort them, saying, “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” So those who received his word were baptized, and there were added that day about three thousand souls. And they devoted themselves to the apostles’ teaching and the fellowship, to the breaking of bread and the prayers.

Acts 8:12-17 (ESV) – Apostles Doctrine
But when they believed Philip as he preached good news about the kingdom of God and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women. Even Simon himself believed, and after being baptized he continued with Philip. And seeing signs and great miracles performed, he was amazed. Now when the apostles at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the word of God, they sent to them Peter and John, who came down and prayed for them that they might receive the Holy Spirit, for he had not yet fallen on any of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them and they received the Holy Spirit.

Acts 10:44-48 (ESV) – Apostles Doctrine
While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ…

Acts 19:2-7 (ESV) – Apostles Doctrine
And he said to them, “Did you receive the Holy Spirit when you believed?” And they said, “No, we have not even heard that there is a Holy Spirit.” And he said, “Into what then were you baptized?” They said, “Into John’s baptism.” And Paul said, “John baptized with the baptism of repentance, telling the people to believe in the one who was to come after him, that is, Jesus.” On hearing this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands on them, the Holy Spirit came on them, and they began speaking in tongues and prophesying. There were about twelve men in all.

Romans 6:2-4 (ESV) – Apostles Doctrine
How can we who died to sin still live in it? you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into his death? We were buried therefore with him by baptism into death, in order that, just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, we too might walk in newness of life.

1 Corinthians 15:1-4 (ESV) – Apostles Doctrine
Now I would remind you, brothers, of the gospel I preached to you, which you received, in which you stand, and by which you are being saved, if you hold fast to the word I preached to you—unless you believed in vain. For I delivered to you as of first importance what I also received: that Christ died for our sins in accordance with the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day in accordance with the Scriptures

Colossians 2:11-14 (ESV) – Apostles Doctrine
“In him also you were circumcised with a circumcision made without hands, by putting off the body of the flesh, by the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism, in which you were also raised with him through faith in the powerful working of God, who raised him from the dead. And you, who were dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, God made alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, by canceling the record of debt that stood against us with its legal demands. This he set aside, nailing it to the cross.”

Hebrews 6:1-8 (Aramaic Peshitta, Lamsa) – Apostles Doctrine
“Because of this, we should leave the starting point of the word of Christ and we should come to maturity. Or will you again lay another foundation for repentance from dead works and for the faith that is in God and for the doctrine of baptism and of the laying on of hands and for the resurrection from the dead and for eternal judgement? If the LORD permits, we will do this. But they are not able, those who once have gone down into baptism and have tasted the gift that is from heaven and have received the Holy Spirit and have tasted the good word of God and the power of the age that is to come, to sin again and to be renewed to repentance from the beginning and to crucify to disparage the Son of God from the beginning. For the earth, which drinks the rain that comes to it many times and produces the green herb that is useful to those because of whom it was cultivated, receives a blessing from God. But if it produces thorn and thistles, it is rejected and is not far away from a curse, but rather its end is fire.
 
Sep 28, 2023
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#47
Continuing Stedfastly in The Apostles' Doctrine

TEXT: Acts 2:41-47
INTRODUCTION: The Apostles' Doctrine

A. THOSE WHO RECEIVED THE TEACHING OF PETER WERE BAPTIZED. B. NOT AN EVENT, THE BEGINNING OF A NEW LIFE.

C. THEY CONTINUED STEDFASTLY. IN WHAT?

1. The apostles' doctrine.

2. Fellowship.

3. Breaking of bread.

4. Prayers.

D. LET'S LOOK AT THE APOSTLES' DOCTRINE.

I. WHAT IS THE APOSTLES' DOCTRINE?

A. REFERENCES BY PAUL (Rom. 2:16; 2 Tim. 2:2; 2 Thess. 2:15; 1 John 4:6). B. ORIGIN OF THE APOSTLES' DOCTRINE (Gal. 1:11; 2 Pet. 3:1-2).

C. THE ROLE OF INSPIRATION:

1. God spoke this way in the past (Heb. 1:1).

2. But in these last days thru Jesus (Heb. 1:1-2; John 12:49).

3. Jesus speaks thru the Holy Spirit (John 14:26; 16:13).

4. The Holy Spirit thru the Apostles ( Eph. 3:5 ).

5. 1 Pet. 1:12.They spoke (1 Cor. 2:13) and wrote (Eph. 3:3-4).

6. Their teaching constitutes law (John 12:48; Luke 10:16; 1 Cor. 14:37). D. THE REVELATION PROCESS IS COMPLETE!

1. We have all things in the Scriptures( 2 Pet. 1:3; 2 Tim. 3:16-17 ).

2. "Once for all..." (Jude 3).

3. Latter day revelations are false (Gal. 1:8-9).

II. WHAT IS MEANT "THEY CONTINUED STEDFASTLY?"

A. THE LORD'S DESIRE FOR US IS THAT WE GROW (2 Pet. 3:18).

1. How is that growth accomplished? (1 Pet. 2:1-2; Acts 20:32). Feed on His Word!

2. Exercise is important (1 Tim. 4:7-8; Heb. 5:12-14).

B. THE PURPOSE OF THAT GROWTH IS A NEW LIFE (Rom. 6:4).

1. A new lifestyle (Rom. 6:1; 1 Pet. 4:1-4; Eph. 4:17).

2. A new perspective (Col. 3:1-2).

3. A new commitment of service (Rom. 6:17-18; 1 Pet. 3:15; 4:19).

C. BUT WE MUST CONTINUE IF WE ARE TO BE TRUE CHRISTIANS (John 8:31).

III. NOW LET'S PUT THE TWO TOGETHER.

A. WE MUST CONTINUE IN WHAT THE APOSTLES ACTUALLY TAUGHT (2 Tim. 1:13; Gal. 1:6-9).

1. There is a "sound" teaching (Titus 2:1-2; 1:9, 13; 1 Tim. 4:6).

2. There is a tendency to not consent (1 Tim. 6:3; 2 Tim. 4:3-4).

B. DEPARTING FROM THE APOSTLES' DOCTRINE HAS CONSEQUENCES (2 John 9; Col. 2:8; Matt. 15:13-14; Gal. 1:8-9).

C. WE MUST CONTINUE IN WHAT? (John 8:31-32). D. WE MUST TAKE HEED (Matt. 24:4; Acts 17:11).

Book, Chapter, Verse!
 

Soyeong

Active member
Oct 11, 2023
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#48
I was recently reading about a US religious survey which indicated that as of 2022 there we over 40,000 different nondenominational churches in the US. This number greatly exceeds the number of mainline Protestant churches (about 200) in the US.

https://www.christianitytoday.com/n...sus-nondenominational-church-growth-nons.html

My question is this. Today we have thousands of Protestant churches, all claiming to guided by the Holy Spirit, and yet all teaching something different.
How can this be? Either the Holy Spirit is very confused (Not likely), or these churches are confused. Which is it? How do I answer this question?
The large number of denomination has much more to do with local autonomy than it has to do with differences in doctrine, though it is not as though there aren't many Catholic denominations.
 
G

Gojira

Guest
#49
Jimmy must be retired. I NEVER have that kind of time to post LOL

Nevertheless, if The Jimmy states it, then the Law it is!

Those of you who are sick, just pass through the shadow of Jimmy.
 

Gideon300

Well-known member
Mar 18, 2021
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#50
The Holy Spirit being confused shouldn't even be an option. All denominations of Christianity, every single one is FULL of deceptions and untruths.

This is how the Apostasy happens.

Luckily salvation is on an individual basis and getting *some* things wrong doesn't automatically make someone unable to be saved.
Full of deceptions and untruths? Every single one? You don't exaggerate much, do you? Baptists? They seem pretty sound to me. Pentecostals? Many are also solid, although some have gone off the rails. Of course, you are qualified to judge the 40,000 or so denominations that you judge so harshly. At least, I hope so because you will be judged as you are judging.
 

ewq1938

Well-known member
Oct 18, 2018
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#51
Full of deceptions and untruths? Every single one? You don't exaggerate much, do you? Baptists? They seem pretty sound to me. Pentecostals? Many are also solid, although some have gone off the rails. Of course, you are qualified to judge the 40,000 or so denominations that you judge so harshly. At least, I hope so because you will be judged as you are judging.

Bah.

Yes, all of them are full (meaning a lot, not 100 percent full with no truth) of false doctrines. All get some things right, and a lot of things wrong.
 
Sep 28, 2023
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#53
Non-Denominational churches are unaffiliated with an organization of churches, doesn't mean they're all teaching something different.
The majority of the independent churches are influenced by the false doctrines of reformed theology / calvinism / OSAS so maost of them teach false doctrine just like the denominations.

They just pride they selves on being non denominational ya know.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
24,779
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#54
The majority of the independent churches are influenced by the false doctrines of reformed theology / calvinism / OSAS so most of them teach false doctrine just like the denominations.
This is simply false on many levels. Most independent churches have nothing to do with Calvinism/Reformed Theology.

As to the eternal security of the believer, you really have no clue about what the Bible reveals. So you would be much further ahead to simply open your Bible and get down to some serious Bible study. But you will also need to first ask the Lord to show you the truth, and then abandon all your silly ideas. "OSAS is a license to sin"!
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#55
Sep 28, 2023
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#56
Most independent churches have nothing to do with Calvinism/Reformed Theology.
Ah, but they teach tenents of these false belief systems.



As to the eternal security of the believer, you really have no clue about what the Bible reveals.
Security is only applicable to those abiding IN Christ bearing fruit... according to what Jesus taught in John 15

In order to hold the position of OSAS, one must only ascribe to a few happy verses and throw the rest of God's Word in the trash.

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#57
Ah, but they teach tenents of these false belief systems.





Security is only applicable to those abiding IN Christ bearing fruit... according to what Jesus taught in John 15

In order to hold the position of OSAS, one must only ascribe to a few happy verses and throw the rest of God's Word in the trash.

Galatians 6:7-8 (see Gen 8:22)
Be not deceived; God is not mocked: for whatsoever a man soweth, that shall he also reap.
For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.

God gave man free will... if man chooses to turn and walk away from the Lord, God will let them do so.

Romans 1:28
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do what ought not to be done

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance which means God cannot violate our free will and save us anyway IF we choose to go back to our sin which is living in darkness. In God there is NO darkness. (1 John 1:5)

This is a major biblical truth the OSAS crowd always explains away or denies is simply this... God is NOT mocked, what we sow is what we reap - if we sow to the flesh we shall of the flesh reap corruption. (Gal 6:7,8)

In Gal 6:8, the word corruption is...

G5356
fthora from G5351; decay, i.e. ruin -- corruption, destroy, perish.

G5351
strengthened from phthio (to pine or waste); properly, to shrivel or wither, i.e. to spoil or to ruin, by moral influences, to deprave): -- corrupt (self), defile, destroy.

If one claims we DO reap corruption when we sin, then they are admitting they do not believe OSAS / Eternal security doctrine (and sadly many of their friends will forsake them!).... and if one claims we DO NOT reap what we sow, then according to Gal 6:7, that would be mocking God!

Adam and Eve were given eternal life by the Lord when He created them... but when they sinned against God they became corrupt and died spiritually and became separated from God. So Gal 6:7,8 is quite the quandary, quite the state of uncertainty and perplexity for the adherents of OSAS doctrine.
Adam and Eve were not given eternal life until after the fall.
 

Magenta

Senior Member
Jul 3, 2015
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#58
Adam and Eve were not given eternal life until after the fall.
When were Adam and Eve given eternal life? After sinning, they were banished from Eden specifically
so they could not eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.
Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold,
the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand
and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...” 23 Therefore the LORD God banished
him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
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#60
When were Adam and Eve given eternal life? After sinning, they were banished from Eden specifically
so they could not eat of the Tree of Life and live forever.
Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold,
the man has become like one of Us, knowing good and evil. And now, lest he reach out his hand
and take also from the tree of life, and eat, and live forever...” 23 Therefore the LORD God banished
him from the Garden of Eden to work the ground from which he had been taken.
I believe it was when God made a sacrifice for them and clothed them.