On the trail of a mystery... John 14:12-14

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,887
1,684
113
#1
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it."

"Because I go to my Father" That's the qualifier for "greater works than these he (one who believes in Him) will do..."

We shouldn't get hung up on the word "greater". It's just the Greek word megas. It's a common word used many times in the New Testament. It is a word that assumes comparison: when something is "greater" there must be something by which its existence is measured. In this case, Jesus is comparing the works He did to the works one who believes in Him will do.

It would calm the soul if Jesus was referring to the larger, corporate Body of Christ. Then "greater" works could certainly be understood to be "broader and far-reaching" because of the vastness of the Body in the earth. But, no, He's referencing "he"... one man... one believer.

And then the qualifier: "Because I go to my Father"

By reading that again I'm immediately reminded of this passage (This is just two chapters later, by the way.):

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He [will take of Mine and declare it to you."

There is this synergistic exchange from the Father to the Son to the Spirit and then to men. By Jesus going to the Father, only then could all the Father have be disclosed to men. I suppose that the men had to first be changed from their old creations into a new one, spiritual ones, before the things of the Spirit could be delivered to them. This "new life" could only be realized in Christ through His sacrifice for us. This is consistent with the principle of the new wine skin and new wine: No one puts new wine into old wine skins.

It feels unsafe and perhaps heretical, but we can conclude that the revelation Paul and the apostles received after Jesus' death was greater than what Jesus shared with the disciples when He walked with them. Jesus, in His kindness, even teed up this conclusion for us in John 14 so that we would not stumble, either by ignorance or pride. For whatever differences we might perceive between Paul, Peter, John, and the Gospels, we should conclude: greater than. What was given to those in Christ was greater than what Jesus shared when He walked the earth. The epistles and Revelation are the furtherance of "all the Father has" not a different story. Now, it is His good pleasure to reveal these things to whole House of God.

Grace and Peace
 

PaulThomson

Well-known member
Oct 29, 2023
3,479
455
83
#2
It feels unsafe and perhaps heretical, but we can conclude that the revelation Paul and the apostles received after Jesus' death was greater than what Jesus shared with the disciples when He walked with them. Jesus, in His kindness, even teed up this conclusion for us in John 14 so that we would not stumble, either by ignorance or pride. For whatever differences we might perceive between Paul, Peter, John, and the Gospels, we should conclude: greater than. What was given to those in Christ was greater than what Jesus shared when He walked the earth. The epistles and Revelation are the furtherance of "all the Father has" not a different story. Now, it is His good pleasure to reveal these things to whole House of God.
Yes. It's called the New Testament: 27 books of equally great and greater revelations.
 

Aaron56

Well-known member
Jul 12, 2021
2,887
1,684
113
#3
Yes. It's called the New Testament: 27 books of equally great and greater revelations.
Agreed.

Perhaps the topic was too basic to elicit some discussion?
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,177
5,727
113
#4
12 “Most assuredly, I say to you, he who believes in Me, the works that I do he will do also; and greater works than these he will do, because I go to My Father. 13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask anything in My name, I will do it."

"Because I go to my Father" That's the qualifier for "greater works than these he (one who believes in Him) will do..."

We shouldn't get hung up on the word "greater". It's just the Greek word megas. It's a common word used many times in the New Testament. It is a word that assumes comparison: when something is "greater" there must be something by which its existence is measured. In this case, Jesus is comparing the works He did to the works one who believes in Him will do.

It would calm the soul if Jesus was referring to the larger, corporate Body of Christ. Then "greater" works could certainly be understood to be "broader and far-reaching" because of the vastness of the Body in the earth. But, no, He's referencing "he"... one man... one believer.

And then the qualifier: "Because I go to my Father"

By reading that again I'm immediately reminded of this passage (This is just two chapters later, by the way.):

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth; for He will not speak on His own authority, but whatever He hears He will speak; and He will tell you things to come. He will glorify Me, for He will take of what is Mine and declare it to you. All things that the Father has are Mine. Therefore I said that He [will take of Mine and declare it to you."

There is this synergistic exchange from the Father to the Son to the Spirit and then to men. By Jesus going to the Father, only then could all the Father have be disclosed to men. I suppose that the men had to first be changed from their old creations into a new one, spiritual ones, before the things of the Spirit could be delivered to them. This "new life" could only be realized in Christ through His sacrifice for us. This is consistent with the principle of the new wine skin and new wine: No one puts new wine into old wine skins.

It feels unsafe and perhaps heretical, but we can conclude that the revelation Paul and the apostles received after Jesus' death was greater than what Jesus shared with the disciples when He walked with them. Jesus, in His kindness, even teed up this conclusion for us in John 14 so that we would not stumble, either by ignorance or pride. For whatever differences we might perceive between Paul, Peter, John, and the Gospels, we should conclude: greater than. What was given to those in Christ was greater than what Jesus shared when He walked the earth. The epistles and Revelation are the furtherance of "all the Father has" not a different story. Now, it is His good pleasure to reveal these things to whole House of God.

Grace and Peace
really interesting post

the apostles received the spirit and taught those things if you look carefully those things they are teaching are the things Jesus began teaching them each subject he taught in the gospels the epistles then expound and explain those things Jesus began teaching Jesus had to be glorified before the spirit could be given to them and this meant now there was more understanding because the things about Christ forst coming with the New Testament had been fulfilled

now rather than Jesus foretelling his death or the prophets before that foretelling his death for sin and resurrection they were receiving a more complete understanding to understand and preach

Gods plan unfolds slowly through the Bible and culminates at the gospel when he’s revealed to mankind