The Glasgow razor boy and eternal security

[wattie]

Now this is the part that many adhere to...is 'God won't leave me, but I can leave God'

This is illogical..because if God won't leave you...He will stay with you when you are being rebellious.
Your own parents, when you bare rebellious..if they are doing their job..would not disown you..but discipline you..rebuke what you are doing. Your biological connection remains.

Now.. the believer has been indwelt by the Holy Spirit. So they have an everlasting connection to God now that is kept by Him.

This is a deeper connection than a biological to your parents! It is not LESSER!

So... You can't forfeit your salvation by walking away from God...because He will still be with you in the process of you being a rebel. That's real relationship and commitment of God to the believer.

So.. most will say.. there is no consequence for sin then..

But God disciplines, convicts and rebukes His children. So the chances are they will discontinue the rebellion.

So a believer can be kicked from their local church, losing connection with fellow Christians and having a distant relationship with Jesus. See Mathew 18
They would lose rewards in heaven and God may even end their life.. bring them home..to stop their sin affecting others.

Here is the key thing though.. it's not guaranteed that a believer WILL be faithful to the end. Carnal Christians can happen. A believer who is rebelling does not mean they were never saved in the first place. The test of salvation is whether they initially believed in Jesus, not by their outward works.

Their will be fruit from some one getting saved..but that doesn't mean they will then never rebel.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

Now this is the part that many adhere to...is 'God won't leave me, but I can leave God'

This is illogical..because if God won't leave you...He will stay with you when you are being rebellious.
Your own parents, when you bare rebellious..if they are doing their job..would not disown you..but discipline you..rebuke what you are doing. Your biological connection remains.

Now.. the believer has been indwelt by the Holy Spirit. So they have an everlasting connection to God now that is kept by Him.

This is a deeper connection than a biological to your parents! It is not LESSER!

So... You can't forfeit your salvation by walking away from God...because He will still be with you in the process of you being a rebel. That's real relationship and commitment of God to the believer.

So.. most will say.. there is no consequence for sin then..

But God disciplines, convicts and rebukes His children. So the chances are they will discontinue the rebellion.

So a believer can be kicked from their local church, losing connection with fellow Christians and having a distant relationship with Jesus. See Mathew 18
They would lose rewards in heaven and God may even end their life.. bring them home..to stop their sin affecting others.

Here is the key thing though.. it's not guaranteed that a believer WILL be faithful to the end. Carnal Christians can happen. A believer who is rebelling does not mean they were never saved in the first place. The test of salvation is whether they initially believed in Jesus, not by their outward works.

Their will be fruit from some one getting saved..but that doesn't mean they will then never rebel.

Amen

where can we go where God is not

And did not God promise to leave the flock and go to get his lost sheep. and HIS SHEEP will follow him.

if they do not come they were never his sheep to begin with

 

[JimmyTheLock]

That is about bearing fruit.

And Jesus specifically said... those that don't bare fruit are cut off the Vine... He is the Vine, so those that are cutt off from the Vine art no longer IN Christ.

It's too bad that so many these days REJECT the clear teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ!

Amen, Jesus said I WILL never perish and I HAVE eternal life.

Go ahead and finish the sentence according to OSAS teaching.... even if you live in sin, because Jesus paid for all future sins and you have no responsibility for your actions going forward so Jesus has given you a license to sin!

But you are not abiding in Him are you. You have fallen back to trusting in your own faithfulness, your own steadfastness.

Er no... that would be false assumptions on your part.

Those that know the Lord will be strong and do exploits - Daniel 11:32
I can do all things thru Christ Who strengthens me - Philippians 4:13
Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God - Romans 8:14

Those that understand what being born again actually means knows they are now in Christ, and are a new creature where old things are passed away; L00K, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17-21)

Those that understand what being born again actually means knows that the purpose of man getting born again is to walk WITH Him, being conformed to the Image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), being transformed by the renewing of your mind (Romans 12:2)

Romans 12:1,2 (see James 4:4 - whosoever will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God – WARNING!)
I declare to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your body a living sacrifice, Holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service....and be not conformed to this world (see James 4:4): but be transformed by the renewing of your mind (understanding, vision), that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 Corinthians 6:19, 20
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own....for you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Peter 1:13-16
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ… As obedient children, not fashioning (agreeing with) yourself according to the former lusts in your ignorance… But as He which has called you is holy, so be yourself holy in all manner of lifestyle… Because it is written, Be holy; for I am holy.

Those that understand what being born again actually means knows that have been called unto good works... and those doing evil works of walking after the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8) and are no longer in right standing with God.

Those that do NOT understand what being born again actually means continually ignore and discredit all these scriptures in their efforts to retain the right to walk after the flesh so they can leave the door open to enjoying a little sin ever now and again. This is what tares among wheat do!

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Galatians 6:9-10
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Hebrews 13:16
But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Matthew 7:18-20
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Romans 2:5-11
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Psalm 34:14
Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.

2 Timothy 2:20,21
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

James 2:14-20
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 3:13
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

1 Peter 3:10-12
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Colossians 1:9,10
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

2 Timothy 3:16,17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

 

[Everlasting-Grace]

And Jesus specifically said... those that don't bare fruit are cut off the Vine... He is the Vine, so those that are cutt off from the Vine art no longer IN Christ.

You do not know anything about keeping a fruit vine do you?

It's too bad that so many these days REJECT the clear teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ! View attachment 257917

Yes, so why do you?

Go ahead and finish the sentence according to OSAS teaching.... even if you live in sin, because Jesus paid for all future sins and you have no responsibility for your actions going forward so Jesus has given you a license to sin!

A child of God can not live in sin, For someone who promotes the word. you fail to listen to it.

Why do you lower the standard of the law and excuse your sin?

 

[wattie]

And Jesus specifically said... those that don't bare fruit are cut off the Vine... He is the Vine, so those that are cutt off from the Vine art no longer IN Christ.

It's too bad that so many these days REJECT the clear teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ! View attachment 257917




Go ahead and finish the sentence according to OSAS teaching.... even if you live in sin, because Jesus paid for all future sins and you have no responsibility for your actions going forward so Jesus has given you a license to sin!
View attachment 257918





Er no... that would be false assumptions on your part.

Those that know the Lord will be strong and do exploits - Daniel 11:32
I can do all things thru Christ Who strengthens me - Philippians 4:13
Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God - Romans 8:14

Those that understand what being born again actually means knows they are now in Christ, and are a new creature where old things are passed away; L00K, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17-21)

Those that understand what being born again actually means knows that the purpose of man getting born again is to walk WITH Him, being conformed to the Image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), being transformed by the renewing of your mind (Romans 12:2)

Romans 12:1,2 (see James 4:4 - whosoever will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God – WARNING!)
I declare to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your body a living sacrifice, Holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service....and be not conformed to this world (see James 4:4): but be transformed by the renewing of your mind (understanding, vision), that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 Corinthians 6:19, 20
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own....for you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Peter 1:13-16
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ… As obedient children, not fashioning (agreeing with) yourself according to the former lusts in your ignorance… But as He which has called you is holy, so be yourself holy in all manner of lifestyle… Because it is written, Be holy; for I am holy.

Those that understand what being born again actually means knows that have been called unto good works... and those doing evil works of walking after the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8) and are no longer in right standing with God.

Those that do NOT understand what being born again actually means continually ignore and discredit all these scriptures in their efforts to retain the right to walk after the flesh so they can leave the door open to enjoying a little sin ever now and again. This is what tares among wheat do!

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Galatians 6:9-10
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Hebrews 13:16
But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Matthew 7:18-20
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Romans 2:5-11
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Psalm 34:14
Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.

2 Timothy 2:20,21
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

James 2:14-20
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 3:13
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

1 Peter 3:10-12
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

2 Corinthians 9:8
And God is able to make all grace abound toward you; that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work:

Colossians 1:9,10
For this cause we also, since the day we heard it, do not cease to pray for you, and to desire that ye might be filled with the knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual understanding;
That ye might walk worthy of the Lord unto all pleasing, being fruitful in every good work, and increasing in the knowledge of God;

2 Timothy 3:16,17
All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. Colossians 3:5
Mortify therefore your members which are upon the earth; fornication, uncleanness, inordinate affection, evil concupiscence, and covetousness, which is idolatry:
For which things' sake the wrath of God cometh on the children of disobedience:

Romans 8:13,14
For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.
For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

A child of God is disciplined and rebuked when they fall into sin.. therefore they would likely discontinue in habitual sin. So therefore, it isn't a license to sin.

You repeat standard issue lines that have been well and truly refuted by those who believe in eternal security.

But the fact remains you and I are both sinners after salvation. All we can do is sin less. We can't become sinless. Not until we are in heaven.

 

[Evmur]

what??

Yes yes they came running to Him kneeling asking if they could receive everlasting life, they promised to follow Him wherever .... men who had kept the commandments fro their youth up.

 

[Evmur]

Those who chose to follow were not turned away. That who chose to reject were not dragged along. You need to take a moment to contemplate the nuttiness of what you are posting.

how long have you read the bible? how many years?

Did you read about the Good Shepherd? He had a hundred sheep and one of them went astray, He left the 9 and 90 in safety and went after that one until He found him. He laid him across His shoulders and brought him home rejoicing. Luke 15.

He has a 100% record. 100, 100 000, 1,000 millions, makes no difference He had a 100% record WHY?

Because we are His sheeps, we belong to Him, His property.

 

[Evmur]

?????????

It's true, go to Sudan or India find out there if people have freewill.

Such a stupid song and dance folk make of this idol, for that is what it is.

Tell me

Did God ask you if you would like to born? did He come and consult with you? where you would be born? who shoud be your parents? what sex you'd like to choose? how tall? fat or thin?

These are things concerning our natural life and yet they think when it comes to that oh so more important matter of eternal life God leaves that to our own puny human wisdom,

I read differently.

I read "the wind blows where He will and ye hear the sound thereof .... so is everyone who is born again of the Spirit."

 

[Evmur]

And Jesus specifically said... those that don't bare fruit are cut off the Vine... He is the Vine, so those that are cutt off from the Vine art no longer IN Christ.

It's too bad that so many these days REJECT the clear teachings of the Lord Jesus Christ! View attachment 257917




Go ahead and finish the sentence according to OSAS teaching.... even if you live in sin, because Jesus paid for all future sins and you have no responsibility for your actions going forward so Jesus has given you a license to sin!
View attachment 257918





Er no... that would be false assumptions on your part.

Those that know the Lord will be strong and do exploits - Daniel 11:32
I can do all things thru Christ Who strengthens me - Philippians 4:13
Those who are led by the Spirit of God are the children of God - Romans 8:14

Those that understand what being born again actually means knows they are now in Christ, and are a new creature where old things are passed away; L00K, all things are become new. (2 Corinthians 5:17-21)

Those that understand what being born again actually means knows that the purpose of man getting born again is to walk WITH Him, being conformed to the Image of Jesus Christ (Romans 8:29), being transformed by the renewing of your mind (Romans 12:2)

Romans 12:1,2 (see James 4:4 - whosoever will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God – WARNING!)
I declare to you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that you present your body a living sacrifice, Holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service....and be not conformed to this world (see James 4:4): but be transformed by the renewing of your mind (understanding, vision), that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

1 Corinthians 6:19, 20
Your body is the temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have of God, and you are not your own....for you are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

1 Peter 1:13-16
Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ… As obedient children, not fashioning (agreeing with) yourself according to the former lusts in your ignorance… But as He which has called you is holy, so be yourself holy in all manner of lifestyle… Because it is written, Be holy; for I am holy.

Those that understand what being born again actually means knows that have been called unto good works... and those doing evil works of walking after the flesh reap corruption (Gal 6:7,8) and are no longer in right standing with God.

Those that do NOT understand what being born again actually means continually ignore and discredit all these scriptures in their efforts to retain the right to walk after the flesh so they can leave the door open to enjoying a little sin ever now and again. This is what tares among wheat do!

Ephesians 2:10
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them.

Galatians 6:9-10
And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.
As we have therefore opportunity, let us do good unto all men, especially unto them who are of the household of faith.

Hebrews 13:16
But to do good and to communicate forget not: for with such sacrifices God is well pleased.

Luke 6:35
But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil.

Matthew 7:18-20
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

Romans 2:5-11
But after thy hardness and impenitent heart treasurest up unto thyself wrath against the day of wrath and revelation of the righteous judgment of God;
Who will render to every man according to his deeds:
To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:
But unto them that are contentious, and do not obey the truth, but obey unrighteousness, indignation and wrath,
Tribulation and anguish, upon every soul of man that doeth evil, of the Jew first, and also of the Gentile;
But glory, honour, and peace, to every man that worketh good, to the Jew first, and also to the Gentile:
For there is no respect of persons with God.

1 Timothy 6:17-19
Charge them that are rich in this world, that they be not highminded, nor trust in uncertain riches, but in the living God, who giveth us richly all things to enjoy;
That they do good, that they be rich in good works, ready to distribute, willing to communicate;
Laying up in store for themselves a good foundation against the time to come, that they may lay hold on eternal life.

Psalm 34:14
Depart from evil and do good; Seek peace and pursue it.

2 Timothy 2:20,21
But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.
If a man therefore purge himself from these, he shall be a vessel unto honour, sanctified, and meet for the master's use, and prepared unto every good work.

James 2:14-20
What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?
If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?

James 3:13
Who is a wise man and endued with knowledge among you? let him shew out of a good conversation his works with meekness of wisdom.

1 Peter 3:10-12
For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile:
Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it.
For the eyes of the Lord are over the righteous, and his ears are open unto their prayers: but the face of the Lord is against them that do evil.

I find no fault with any of the scriptures that you quote, I love those scriptures myself and have done for 45 years.
But you are using them wrongly.

You can't make these scriptures as commandments, legally binding. if you try to do so you will fail in each and every one of them.

Gospel truths are given as food, to feed, to nourish, to build up, to strengthen, to warn, to exhort, to rebuke, to bless, to comfort , to bind together in love.

Gospel truths can never be used as legislation, nor does our salvation depend upon them, that has been taken care of [else we would not be in the church reading them in the first place]

Gospel truths are for encouragement, for discipleship, for growth in grace, for the encouragement of brotherly love, for blessing, to inspire love, worship toward God, thanksgiving, to encourage faith.

 

[Evmur]

?????????

Do you think it is possible Oy that the whole church practically could be caught in idolatry? It actually happened for 1500 years with the doctrine of Mary and the even worse doctrine of the eucharist. Everyone believed these things.

The whole church at Galatia was bewitched and turned away from Paul's simple gospel. At the end of Paul's ministry he wrote that all Asia had turned away from him.

What IS this idolatry? YOU, your will, your free will as you suppose.

Your doctrine makes your will, your choosings to be equal to God for it plays an equal role in your salvation. Your will [not only yours] is sovereign.

... that's why folks get angry when you argue against it.

 

[Rosemaryx]

I read "the wind blows where He will and ye hear the sound thereof .... so is everyone who is born again of the Spirit."

Amen...So clear...

 

[wattie]

We don't have the free will to leave God ..but I believe we exercise free will initially to believe on the Lord Jesus Christ at salvation. I don't agree with being converted before you believe.

Neither Calvinist nor Arminian

 

[oyster67]

He has a 100% record. 100, 100 000, 1,000 millions, makes no difference He had a 100% record

John 17:12
“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

John 6:66
“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”

 

[oyster67]

It's true, go to Sudan or India find out there if people have freewill.

Such a stupid song and dance folk make of this idol, for that is what it is.

Tell me

To compare the ways of the world to the ways of the Kingdom is not wise.

 

[oyster67]

Do you think it is possible Oy that the whole church practically could be caught in idolatry? It actually happened for 1500 years with the doctrine of Mary and the even worse doctrine of the eucharist. Everyone believed these things.

The whole church at Galatia was bewitched and turned away from Paul's simple gospel. At the end of Paul's ministry he wrote that all Asia had turned away from him.

It is individuals who will stand before God at the GWTJ, not corporate bodies or entire denominations or churches. Christianity is about a relationship, not a religion. Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord, not some local religious group of that time and age.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

We don't have the free will to leave God

a LUKEWARM Believer, still believes in God, but also is not completely on fire for God.
God says He will Vomit them out of His mouth.
it appears the LUKEWARM Believer has the Free Will to not be fully committed to God, by CHOICE.
so, how does your Statement: [We don't have the free will to leave God] compare to a Believer having the Free Will to not be on Fire for God?

both concepts lead to Missing Out on Eternal Salvation.

 

[wattie]

a LUKEWARM Believer, still believes in God, but also is not completely on fire for God.
God says He will Vomit them out of His mouth.
it appears the LUKEWARM Believer has the Free Will to not be fully committed to God, by CHOICE.
so, how does your Statement: [We don't have the free will to leave God] compare to a Believer having the Free Will to not be on Fire for God?

both concepts lead to Missing Out on Eternal Salvation.

Well .. looking at the luke warm believers being vomitted out in Revelation.. that is an entire church losing the presence of the Holy Spirit. Not individuals losing eternal life.

The vomitting context is of churches. Not individuals. A Luke warm local church can lose the presence of the Holy Spirit, ceasing to be one of God's churches.

 

[The_Watchers_2017]

Well .. looking at the luke warm believers being vomitted out in Revelation.. that is an entire church losing the presence of the Holy Spirit. Not individuals losing eternal life.

The vomitting context is of churches. Not individuals. A Luke warm local church can lose the presence of the Holy Spirit, ceasing to be one of God's churches.

We are the CHURCH, it's why Revelation Chapters 1-3 are mentioned by God.
Those SINS apply to each one of us INDIVIDUALLY.
me, by myself, alone, as long as God lives in me and I abide in Him...is the CHURCH!

 

[wattie]

We are the CHURCH, it's why Revelation Chapters 1-3 are mentioned by God.
Those SINS apply to each one of us INDIVIDUALLY.
me, by myself, alone, as long as God lives in me and I abide in Him...is the CHURCH!

The church is a local assembly of saved, baptised believers, covenanted together to carry out the great commission and commandment. That's what it is at Antioch , Corinth, Ephesus, Phillipi, the churches plural in Galatia etc.

All believers are in the Family of God but they are not 'the church'.

Mathew 16:18 introduces the church and in Mathew 18 it is local and visible. It can be spoken to and has church discipline.

Jesus would not introduce the church one way and then contradict Himself. It's got to be local in both cases. Of the church as an institution.

 

[Evmur]

John 17:12
“While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.”

John 6:66
“From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.”

I love the writings of John, Paul teaches predestination and election in his doctrines but John lives and breathes it.

... that the scripture might be fulfilled this shows Judas was chosen to be the one who would betray our Lord, he was given to the Lord to be the betrayer. He is "the friend who ate bread with Me who has lifted up his heel against Me" Jesus knew all about Judas, He knew from the beginning who it was who did not believe in Him and who would betray Him.

"From that time many of His disciples went back and walked no more with Him ... "
it's what folks do. it's what Christians do even though they be saved. They do not truly walk with Him, they follow rather their own free will. It was so in the gospels, in Acts and all the epistles address this issue of folks falling back and who walk after the flesh and not in the Spirit.

They's still saved Oy, God is very gracious and understanding of our human nature, He knows that's what we do.

God is always seeking to woo us and calling us back to that from which we have fallen, always bringing to our mind our first espousals, our first love. The joy and satisfaction we had when we first believed.

He doesn't damn us or send us to hell ... He sends times of refreshing and revival upon His church.