We are not yet in the New Covenant prophecied by Jeremiah and Ezekiel - that is the Millennial reign

[Pilgrimshope]

All things must be fulfilled before the New Covenant comes into effect?

Jesus said it was finished but OP says we are not in the NC yet.

Jesus was saying “ everything written in the prophets and law concerning me ( a son shall be born his name shall be the mighty God the everlasting father prince of peace ect a virgin will be with child his name shall be Emmanuel god with us ect

i will put my spirit on him and he will show judgement to the gentiles

Not everything ever written needed to be fulfilled only what the ot said about the coming of Jesus (his first appearance on earth born as a son received the spirit preached the gospel promosed salvation suffered and died for sin was raised up the third day ascended in the sight of men into the clouds where he was seated at Gods right hand ect

all the ot foretold about Jesus had to come to pass because he is the mediator of the new covenant the gospel Jesus preached is the new covenant everything has to happen in the gospel and the new things we’re poured out after at pentocost remember how Jesus kept saying “ I will be raised up and seated at the right hand of God ?”

arhats fulfillment of prophecy about Jesus written by David pertaining to Christ bieng seated on the throne of heaven

When Jesus ascended and was glorified he poured out his spirit to believers what I’m saying is David at times wrote about Jesus not himself like this

“For David speaketh concerning him, I foresaw the Lord always before my face, For he is on my right hand, that I should not be moved:

Therefore being a prophet, and knowing that God had sworn with an oath to him, that of the fruit of his loins, according to the flesh, he would raise up Christ to sit on his throne; he seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.

This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear.

Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made that same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. ( new covenant )

For the promise is unto you, and to your children, and to all that are afar off, even as many as the Lord our God shall call.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:25, 30-33, 36, 38-39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

jesus specifically explained what he meant he was saying everything the law and prophets wrote about me ( the promised messiah ) must be fulfilled before the law can be removed the reason is that he is the mediator without Jesus nothing could have ever changed
But because of Jesus the old covenant has been fulfilled and the new was given in promise of the gospel

“For the priesthood being changed, ( Jesus is our high priest of melchezideks order not Aaron’s of the law we had to have a high priest who was perfect so Jesus had to come forth ) there is made of necessity a change also of the law.

For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof. For the law made nothing perfect,( ot )

but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.”( nt)
‭‭Hebrews‬ ‭7:12, 18-19‬ ‭KJV‬

sister jesus spoke the eternal covenant is my opinion and it was instituted at pentocost after he was glorified in the heavenly kingdom and sent his spirit into the apostles and early disciples

The gospel is eternal and everything we need to live forever in peace with God

 

[Dino246]

A lot of dislikes by the user "selahsays". Now I know why Paul said, "women must keep their mouths shut.

Wow… you are way out of line with that comment. Even if your misinterpreted misquotation were sound (which it is not), this isn’t a local church meeting and Paul’s words would not apply.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

All things must be fulfilled before the New Covenant comes into effect?

Jesus said it was finished but OP says we are not in the NC yet.

sister I had no agreement with the op was just trying to point out Jesus said “ all that’s written about me must be fulfilled “ because of what was said to you it’s specific to the prophecies about Jesus and his kingdom

when we read the gospel almost every event is foretold in prophets law and psalms all those promises about the son had to be fulfilled and have been it’s what the gospel is the fulfillment of the messianic prophecies of the ot including those of the psalms and law of Moses

“For Moses truly said unto the fathers, A prophet shall the Lord your God raise up unto you of your brethren, like unto me; him shall ye hear in all things whatsoever he shall say unto you. And it shall come to pass, that every soul, which will not hear that prophet, shall be destroyed from among the people. Yea, and all the prophets from Samuel and those that follow after, as many as have spoken, have likewise foretold of these days. Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed. Unto you first God, having raised up his Son Jesus, sent him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from his iniquities.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:22-26‬

Paul makes the same point

“Having therefore obtained help of God, I continue unto this day, witnessing both to small and great, saying none other things than those which the prophets and Moses did say should come: that Christ should suffer, and that he should be the first that should rise from the dead, and should shew light unto the people, and to the Gentiles.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭26:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

that’s just like what Jesus said but in Paul’s words

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.

Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.

And ye are witnesses of these things.

And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44-49‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You see only prophecies can be fulfilled a lot of the ot isn’t prophetic only when God was making a future promise and said it would come to pass

prophecy 700 bc

“Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭7:14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Fulfillment with Revelation

“And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”( that last part is revelation )
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:21-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬


We’re in the new covenant of course we’re in Christ ….. was just trying to seperate “ everything the ot said needs to be fulfilled before the covenant ……and what the ot said about the messiah coming forth needing to be fulfilled before the covenant could come which he did and it did at pentocost it was official

 

[Dino246]

I will quote you Scripture if you argue against my main claim - is Paul right when he says we are in the New Covenant prophesied in Jeremiah and Ezekiel as quoted by him in Hebrews 8:8? If yes, why have the prerequisites for the same as mentioned by me in that document not yet been fulfilled? Now, you want me to quote Scripture but you won't agree that the books you yourself consider as Scripture don't add up with each other. So you don't mind people adding books to the Bible after Jesus when it was completely unnecessary but you want me to have a Scriptural reference for everything.

Since you refuse to support your claims, I'll assume they are empty blather. Of course, it might get difficult to find anything worth discussing amid all that blather.

Can you justify Moses murdering the Egyptian using Scripture?

I see no need to answer ridiculous questions.

 

[Dino246]

I can use personal attacks if you've strayed away from the discussion using the deflection fallacy and don't give me an explanation as to how I am wrong. Ad hominems are attacks used when I don't have an explanation. I have all the explanations listed above. It's you who hasn't explained yet. Jesus used personal attacks too but they are not ad hominems - "Brood of vipers".

There is a difference between an ad hominem comment and an ad hominem argument. The former is merely a comment about a person, usually the person with whom you are discussing. The latter is an argument based on the idea that because someone is (place ad hominem comment here), their argument is invalid.

Ad hominem comment: You're a jackdonkey when you treat people with disrespect.

Ad hominem argument: You're a jackdonkey therefore your argument is invalid.

Jesus did indeed employ ad hominem comments, but not ad hominem arguments.

 

[Dino246]

Good Question. So you're starting to get into my mind.

Do you know who Ephraim is referring to here and elsewhere? They are the Northern 10 Lost Tribes that is led by the tribe of Ephraim (because Jacob's blessing went to him instead of Joseph). I am theorizing that most of the Western Christians (Commonwealth nations) are the Lost Tribes of Israel....

You're attempting to make Jews out of Gentiles. Your theory is best put in the trash.

 

[Dino246]

Are you an effeminate man? .

I was going to ask him/her/? the same thing.

 

[DavidIsrael]

You're attempting to make Jews out of Gentiles. Your theory is best put in the trash.

I hope you first understand that All Jews are Israelites. All Israelites are not Jews. Paul makes this false dichotomy when he compares Jews and Gentiles. There is another group other than these two. Who are they? The Lost Tribes of Israel. So Paul's writings are completely off-track. But you refuse to listen to me because you don't care about the truth.

 

[DavidIsrael]

There is a difference between an ad hominem comment and an ad hominem argument. The former is merely a comment about a person, usually the person with whom you are discussing. The latter is an argument based on the idea that because someone is (place ad hominem comment here), their argument is invalid.

Ad hominem comment: You're a jackdonkey when you treat people with disrespect.

Ad hominem argument: You're a jackdonkey therefore your argument is invalid.

Jesus did indeed employ ad hominem comments, but not ad hominem arguments.

You've not added anything to what I said. There is no such thing as ad hominem comment. When "ad" and some fallacy term is used, it is purely applicable for arguments. And that is not allowed because you are not answering the argument but attacking the person. Attacking people otherwise is fine. Appears like you will defend anything and everything your people here say. I just sneezed - protect your people from the germs now, go on.

 

[DavidIsrael]

Since you refuse to support your claims, I'll assume they are empty blather. Of course, it might get difficult to find anything worth discussing amid all that blather.


I see no need to answer ridiculous questions.

Anything you can't argue against is ridiculous, isn't it? What are you going to do next to me? Crucify me? Nah, if my death would mean anything, I would allow it. I'd rather defend myself because the world needs people like me - light amidst the darkness (people like you who deflect and enjoy drinking from the filth of pagan ideas). So I will save my life - not for myself but for the propagation of truth.

 

[DavidIsrael]

Wow… you are way out of line with that comment. Even if your misinterpreted misquotation were sound (which it is not), this isn’t a local church meeting and Paul’s words would not apply.

Any argument between believers is a Church meeting. Sad you don't understand how gatherings and "Christian" discussions work. Much for the separation of State and Church.

 

[Cameron143]

I hope you first understand that All Jews are Israelites. All Israelites are not Jews. Paul makes this false dichotomy when he compares Jews and Gentiles. There is another group other than these two. Who are they? The Lost Tribes of Israel. So Paul's writings are completely off-track. But you refuse to listen to me because you don't care about the truth.

Which parts of scripture are inspired and which are not?

 

[DavidIsrael]

Should we not be Very Careful about questioning (Satan's device)
God's Pure And Holy Word?:

Handling The Word Of Life!

Amen.

Cross-reference the OT with Paul's writings. Paul's got a lot of things wrong. Argue against me. Stop using the generic "Satan's device" nonsense reply. If Satan was in front of me, I would smash him to death - if G-d gave me the permission.

Matthew 12:26 - "If Satan drives out Satan, he is divided against himself. How then can his kingdom stand? "

Nobody hates the devil more than me. No human. That's why I will fight this fight till the end. Humans are just collateral damage. Even if one soul can be enlightened by me and removed from the darkness, I will go to any extreme to get there. ANY EXTREME.

 

[Cameron143]

You've not added anything to what I said. There is no such thing as ad hominem comment. When "ad" and some fallacy term is used, it is purely applicable for arguments. And that is not allowed because you are not answering the argument but attacking the person. Attacking people otherwise is fine. Appears like you will defend anything and everything your people here say. I just sneezed - protect your people from the germs now, go on.

There seems to be ad toscripture arguments, no?

 

[DavidIsrael]

Hooke's law specifies that it is only valid for relatively small deformation. if you stretch a spring so much that the material loses its form, of course the properties of the spring change.

Yet again - another condition. Shows that all laws are conditions.

 

[DavidIsrael]

You contradict yourself.

Are you an effeminate man? .

You didn't tell me how I contradict myself.

When Jesus said the World is evil, was he referring to Himself too? These are figures of speech. An effeminate person wouldn't discuss the way I discuss. I would do this even if you threw a grenade in my mouth - I will preach the Gospel and speak about My Lord and My Savior Yeshua Ha Mashiach. But that doesn't mean I will allow Christians to preach falsehood that doesn't add up to the OT. Women won't do these things - that's why prophecy was never given much to women - except in rare cases, when men failed. I don't hate women. I would give my life for them - good women, not arrogant ones (the majority). But we all have a role. We need to submit ourselves to that with all humility by comparing ourselves with others and realizing the impact our actions can have on society.

 

[DavidIsrael]

Using Scripture, can you back up your belief that every OT prophesy must be fulfilled before the New Covenant takes effect?

Maybe I can do that but not now. But I can do one thing for sure -
The New Covenant that was prophecied in Jeremiah and Ezekiel gives us key indicators that we can know when we are in the New Covenant -

1) The Lost Tribes would have returned and would be reunited with the Jews
2) The covenant will be set up with the lost tribes of Israel and the Jews not just the Jews as it was the case when Jesus set up his covenant - this can happen only after Isaiah 49 and a lot of other prophecies about the Lost Tribes are fullfiled, which has even remotely not been fulfilled
3) No other god would be worshipped on earth - hence the preaching of the Gospel won't be needed because all will know who is G-d. No one will have to tell others who is G-d - everyone will know it

Also, Paul himself says that when the New Covenant takes effect, the Old will die. How can it die without getting fulfilled? Are you calling G-d a liar for prophecying something and not fulfilling it? Seems Paul didn't understand anything about the Lost Tribes but I don't blame him. I don't understand so many things and it is only time that helped me understand whatever I do now. But we made a mistake in accepting his writings as Scripture. For example, one of my favorite verses in the Bible is Ephesians 6:12 - Spiritual Warfare cause my worldview changed only when I understood that (though through other writings not that verse though that verse should have been detailed more by Paul as the prophets knew a lot about it but G-d didn't allow it to be known by man yet). But that doesn't mean everything has to go into scripture. There are so many things outside Scripture than can still help us understand about G-d and Paul's writings could have been like that. Like a Christian Talmud.

 

[DavidIsrael]

I do not get your mind at all. This is all supposition. You are teaching based on a premise that the Bible doesn't record. You are basically making stuff up.

You haven't shown how. But even I exposed that Paul was making stuff up without understanding fully. How come you have no issues with Paul? We are not yet in the New Covenant prophecied in Jeremiah and Ezekiel. Are you going to admit that?

 

[DavidIsrael]

Which parts of scripture are inspired and which are not?

The OT, the words of Jesus (in the Gospels and Revelation).

 

[DavidIsrael]

There seems to be ad toscripture arguments, no?

Link me to it's usage. I haven't heard of it.