We are not yet in the New Covenant prophecied by Jeremiah and Ezekiel - that is the Millennial reign
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It isn't the manner of debate that is the problem. It's a matter of truth. He has already stated that scripture isn't the final word for understanding and doctrine. It's difficult enough to work through scripture and come to a consensus. But if people aren't working from a common set of information, how can they reach the same conclusions?
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“Hear another parable:
There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected,
The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
Matthew 21:33-43 KJV
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
this is prophetic , promise based upon Gods words in the gospel. Not based upon Moses words at Sinai Jesus never promised anyone the land of israel in the gospel he promised a new heaven and earth where there is no sin or death …..after this one ends
The old covenant was broken and he said if they broke it it would be a curse upon them he said this many times over in the law . And he promised to come and make a new covenant of life
There was a certain householder, which planted a vineyard, and hedged it round about, and digged a winepress in it, and built a tower, and let it out to husbandmen, and went into a far country:
and when the time of the fruit drew near, he sent his servants to the husbandmen, that they might receive the fruits of it.
And the husbandmen took his servants, and beat one, and killed another, and stoned another.
Again, he sent other servants more than the first: and they did unto them likewise.
But last of all he sent unto them his son, saying, They will reverence my son. But when the husbandmen saw the son, they said among themselves, This is the heir; come, let us kill him, and let us seize on his inheritance. And they caught him, and cast him out of the vineyard, and slew him.
When the Lord therefore of the vineyard cometh, what will he do unto those husbandmen?
They say unto him, He will miserably destroy those wicked men, and will let out his vineyard unto other husbandmen, which shall render him the fruits in their seasons.
Jesus saith unto them, Did ye never read in the scriptures, The stone which the builders rejected,
The same is become the head of the corner: This is the Lord's doing, And it is marvellous in our eyes?
Therefore say I unto you, The kingdom of God shall be taken from you, and given to a nation bringing forth the fruits thereof.”
Matthew 21:33-43 KJV
“And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved;
but he that believeth not shall be damned.”
Mark 16:15-16 KJV
this is prophetic , promise based upon Gods words in the gospel. Not based upon Moses words at Sinai Jesus never promised anyone the land of israel in the gospel he promised a new heaven and earth where there is no sin or death …..after this one ends
The old covenant was broken and he said if they broke it it would be a curse upon them he said this many times over in the law . And he promised to come and make a new covenant of life
“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: that the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.”
2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV
if we won’t hear what god actually said and caused himself to be written down instructing men like Moses or the ot prophets or the apostles what to say and what to write down for everyone to hear
awe would just be people creating our own disciples that agree with our own philosophy in other words the bi le os gods word he caused it to be what it is so all people could hear the gospel
many won’t learn from the Bible because they’re trying to teach thier own doctrine
We want to be like Paul and explain all this stuff that no one else knew before …..but that’s not how it works we have to hear and believe what he said and sent to us just my unwarranted thought
Why come to a bible discussion forum if we don’t agree with what it plainly says the New Testament is plain it’s not meant to be interpreted just listened to and learned from and followed after because we have faith we heard and believed ….
2 Timothy 3:16-17 KJV
if we won’t hear what god actually said and caused himself to be written down instructing men like Moses or the ot prophets or the apostles what to say and what to write down for everyone to hear
awe would just be people creating our own disciples that agree with our own philosophy in other words the bi le os gods word he caused it to be what it is so all people could hear the gospel
many won’t learn from the Bible because they’re trying to teach thier own doctrine
We want to be like Paul and explain all this stuff that no one else knew before …..but that’s not how it works we have to hear and believe what he said and sent to us just my unwarranted thought
Why come to a bible discussion forum if we don’t agree with what it plainly says the New Testament is plain it’s not meant to be interpreted just listened to and learned from and followed after because we have faith we heard and believed ….
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David, may i suggest another approach about the O.P. why even mention Hebrew 8 : 8, is there a need for this at all it is a quote from JEREMIAH 31:31-34. I understand what you quoted about the new covenant from the O.T. I agree with your assessment, I believe Jesus Initiated the new covenant , in many versions of the bible from Greek also, it is called or worded as a ""testament"" not a covenant, it is a will that Jesus refers to. On his return or shortly thereafter, the commandments will be placed through the HOLY SPIRIT in the flesh and heartS or men as it is written;
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
These verses from Jeremiah clearly refer to the end times and second advent of the messiah it is very clear. it is evident that Jer 31:33-34 are not in application at this time!!
I also agree that many are unknowingly Israelites from the lost tribes and do not know it yet, Knowledge about the end times is increasing as it is written;
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Blessings
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Jer 31:34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
These verses from Jeremiah clearly refer to the end times and second advent of the messiah it is very clear. it is evident that Jer 31:33-34 are not in application at this time!!
I also agree that many are unknowingly Israelites from the lost tribes and do not know it yet, Knowledge about the end times is increasing as it is written;
Dan 12:4 But thou, O Daniel, shut up the words, and seal the book, even to the time of the end: many shall run to and fro, and knowledge shall be increased.
Dan 12:9 And he said, Go thy way, Daniel: for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end.
Dan 12:10 Many shall be purified, and made white, and tried; but the wicked shall do wickedly: and none of the wicked shall understand; but the wise shall understand.
Blessings
@DavidIsrael …. Your word choice (as exemplified above) is terrible, and it really says a lot about YOU. Do you even think before you post? Who gave you the authority to judge ANYONE irredeemable, especially a brother or sister in Christ? I wouldn’t judge YOU irredeemable, but a little humility on your part would be nice—and an apology for using your words so carelessly.
Psalm 130: 3-8
3 If You, Lord, should mark iniquities,
O Lord, who could stand?
4 But there is forgiveness with You,
That You may be feared.
5 I wait for the Lord, my soul waits,
And in His word I do hope.
6 My soul waits for the Lord
More than those who watch for the morning—
Yes, more than those who watch for the morning.
7 O Israel, hope in the Lord;
For with the Lord there is mercy,
And with Him is abundant redemption.
8 And He shall redeem Israel
From all his iniquities.
Psalm 130: 3-8
3 If You, Lord, should mark iniquities,
O Lord, who could stand?
4 But there is forgiveness with You,
That You may be feared.
5 I wait for the Lord, my soul waits,
And in His word I do hope.
6 My soul waits for the Lord
More than those who watch for the morning—
Yes, more than those who watch for the morning.
7 O Israel, hope in the Lord;
For with the Lord there is mercy,
And with Him is abundant redemption.
8 And He shall redeem Israel
From all his iniquities.
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@ThyKingdomComeSoon …. If you are speaking to me, my remarks are specifically in reference to the word “irredeemable” which should never be used by a Christian to apply to ANYONE except Satan.
I definitely agree. But I try to understand why people believe what they believe. In this case, the individual gives weight to only part of scripture and considers other things as more authoritative than scripture. Herein lies his error. So debating over scripture will never convince him. He has a higher authority.
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if you follow what i asked him, i could see what he might be saying like his reference to the Old Testament not being fulfilled wasn't the Law he was discussing, but future End Time Prophecy.
i do agree with your assessment 100% but also think he is mixing yiddish beliefs with Christian beliefs. and that will get him nowhere.
i do agree with your assessment 100% but also think he is mixing yiddish beliefs with Christian beliefs. and that will get him nowhere.
What would be the the letter that Paul speaks about in Corinthians that is written on not on tablets of stone, which is referring to the commandment written on the stone tablets, but we Christians now have what Paul equates to the same meaning written on tablets of human hearts.
I suppose we I could make assumptions here or anyone else. But one thing is certain, Paul referees to the same letter that was written on on tablets of stone in the same sentences ?.
Of course we could and should say that man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the lord.
Common sense really should say there is no way to choose the right word at all times unless you knock on your heart first,
So what should we say.
Should we say God hasn't left his laws there ?.
You don't need them
You can't live by them.
But then should we say, how can we live by every word if there not engraved by the spirit on our hearts.
Should we make are own laws up
I suppose we I could make assumptions here or anyone else. But one thing is certain, Paul referees to the same letter that was written on on tablets of stone in the same sentences ?.
Of course we could and should say that man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the lord.
Common sense really should say there is no way to choose the right word at all times unless you knock on your heart first,
So what should we say.
Should we say God hasn't left his laws there ?.
You don't need them
You can't live by them.
But then should we say, how can we live by every word if there not engraved by the spirit on our hearts.
Should we make are own laws up
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