Has anyone found secret messages in the bible?
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But it plays into whether or not you have circular reasoning or not.
Do you believe the Bible is a Christian’s guide for all matters of faith and practice?
Or are you Charismatic where faith can sometimes also come from visions, dreams, or God audibly talking to you?
Do you believe faith also sometimes come from like church traditions like the Catholic Church?
Do you see some other holy book as being a guide of the faith like the Book of Mormon?
Do you believe the Bible is a Christian’s guide for all matters of faith and practice?
Or are you Charismatic where faith can sometimes also come from visions, dreams, or God audibly talking to you?
Do you believe faith also sometimes come from like church traditions like the Catholic Church?
Do you see some other holy book as being a guide of the faith like the Book of Mormon?
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In other words, the door swings both ways in the circular argument claim. Christians have faith in the Bible. Others can say this is circular reasoning. Do you not believe in the Bible? Christians do so by faith. If you are laying claim to believe in the Bible, there are primarily two positions these days.
#1. Belief that the KJB is the Word of God.
#2. Belief that there is no perfect Bible and so either you and or the scholar must waste your life trying to figure out what God really said.
#3. Belief that God speaks amongst a sea of conflicting Modern translations and we must use our fallible mind or thoughts to guide us.
All of these positions can be said to be circular reasoning.
If one does not hold to the popular views above, then they need to explain what their other alternative is that would not fall into the trap of circular reasoning. Every belief today can be said to be circular reasoning. But the key difference is if truth is on a person’s side or not in that belief.
#1. Belief that the KJB is the Word of God.
#2. Belief that there is no perfect Bible and so either you and or the scholar must waste your life trying to figure out what God really said.
#3. Belief that God speaks amongst a sea of conflicting Modern translations and we must use our fallible mind or thoughts to guide us.
All of these positions can be said to be circular reasoning.
If one does not hold to the popular views above, then they need to explain what their other alternative is that would not fall into the trap of circular reasoning. Every belief today can be said to be circular reasoning. But the key difference is if truth is on a person’s side or not in that belief.
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In other words, James White disagrees with Dan Wallace. Those who say the Spirit guides them to find the right readings in a sea of conflicting of Modern Translations will disagree with another believer who says the same thing. There is no one single standard or one text for anyone to agree upon, which breeds confusion. God is not the author of confusion, though.
How do detectives solve murders? By evidence, right? They look at patterns of evidence. You could say that their arguing a case could be circular reasoning based on the evidence presented to them. Could they be wrong even despite the evidence? Yes, they could. But it is rare. The detectives go by the evidence, motives, eye witnesses, etcetera.
This is how I approach the KJB issue or the Bible issue. I look at the patterns of evidence and see if it fits in whether or not it is the pure Word of God for our day. This can be said to be circular reasoning. But look at your own belief. You must do the same in regards to your view of the faith involving Christianity if you don’t believe the Bible that existed for hundreds of years is the Word of God. Your core belief system of what you believe is Christianity can be said to be circular reasoning, but we can look to the evidence and compare to see if your belief is based on the truth or not. Do you have a good case to make to prove your own version of Christianity is not circular reasoning with enough evidence to prove all other Christian positions as wrong?
My guess is this is not going to happen.
This is how I approach the KJB issue or the Bible issue. I look at the patterns of evidence and see if it fits in whether or not it is the pure Word of God for our day. This can be said to be circular reasoning. But look at your own belief. You must do the same in regards to your view of the faith involving Christianity if you don’t believe the Bible that existed for hundreds of years is the Word of God. Your core belief system of what you believe is Christianity can be said to be circular reasoning, but we can look to the evidence and compare to see if your belief is based on the truth or not. Do you have a good case to make to prove your own version of Christianity is not circular reasoning with enough evidence to prove all other Christian positions as wrong?
My guess is this is not going to happen.
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@NightTwister
Okay. So I talked about evidence which is used in solving crimes and I relate to this to my defense of the KJB position. I am also challenging you to prove your case with evidence if your Christian belief is superior. Your reply again is the sleep button rep. This again is an extremely unchristian attitude to take. Christians are supposed to earnestly contend for the faith (See: Jude 1:3). But if you do not want to do so, that is between you and the LORD. There is no point in having any further discourse if you don’t want to face your own Christian position (which can be viewed as circular reasoning, too).
Okay. So I talked about evidence which is used in solving crimes and I relate to this to my defense of the KJB position. I am also challenging you to prove your case with evidence if your Christian belief is superior. Your reply again is the sleep button rep. This again is an extremely unchristian attitude to take. Christians are supposed to earnestly contend for the faith (See: Jude 1:3). But if you do not want to do so, that is between you and the LORD. There is no point in having any further discourse if you don’t want to face your own Christian position (which can be viewed as circular reasoning, too).
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So you don’t have a Christian position (Not KJB Only) that others can also say is circular reasoning?
I get that you don’t get that.
How is your Christian position not circular reasoning and yet mine is?
This is where evidence should come in, right?
But we both know that your not going to bring any evidence to prove your position is superior and is not circular reasoning.
In other words, the door swings both ways. If you are going to claim my position is circular reasoning, you have to show how yours is not circular reasoning.
I get that you don’t get that.
How is your Christian position not circular reasoning and yet mine is?
This is where evidence should come in, right?
But we both know that your not going to bring any evidence to prove your position is superior and is not circular reasoning.
In other words, the door swings both ways. If you are going to claim my position is circular reasoning, you have to show how yours is not circular reasoning.
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As promised, I said I was going to break down my favorite video by Brandon Peterson (Which is his number 7 video) here.
Brandon Peterson’s Number 7 Video on the King James Bible:
John 10:37
John 10:38
Note: These counts are from the accurate software KJB search program called Pure King James Bible Search (of which you can check out here). Other programs or searches online are not as precise and Brandon goes into explaining why in his video.
Jesus says, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”(Revelation 22:13).
It is agreed upon by many Jews and Christians that the number 7 is God’s perfect number.
All of this is verifable by his search files that you can check out at his website. More of his discoveries can be found in his book (Which can get the free online version) from his website. https://sealedbytheking.com/ He has another site called https://truthischrist.com/
Brandon Peterson’s Number 7 Video on the King James Bible:
John 10:37
“If I do not the works of my Father, believe me not.”
John 10:38
"But if I do, though ye believe not me, believe the works: that ye may know, and believe, that the Father is in me, and I in him.””
Note: These counts are from the accurate software KJB search program called Pure King James Bible Search (of which you can check out here). Other programs or searches online are not as precise and Brandon goes into explaining why in his video.
Jesus says, “I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.”(Revelation 22:13).
It is agreed upon by many Jews and Christians that the number 7 is God’s perfect number.
- Jesus is mentioned 77% through the Bible (by word count).
- In the Genealogy of Christ in Luke 3:23-38 counting from God to our Messiah, Jesus is the 77th from God.
- The word “Jesus” is the 7th word of the New Testament (Matthew 1:1). Jesus is the Alpha or the first.
- Revelation 22:21 (the last verse of the Bible), the word “Jesus” is the 7th word from the end. Meaning, if you count backwards starting from the end in the last verse, Jesus is the 7th word from the end of Revelation. Jesus is the Omega or the last.
- Jesus or Jesus’ = 980 mentions (excluding anti-mentions - when the Bible mentions the name Jesus but it is not referring to Jesus Christ). (70 x 7) + (70 x 7) = 980. This aligns with Matthew 18:22 where Jesus tells Peter to forgive 70 x 7 times. The first 70 x 7 is perfectly found in the odd books of the New Testament. The second 70 x 7 is perfectly found in the even books of the New Testament. This is amazing because there are way more words in the odd books than the even books.
- The word “heaven” is the 7th word in the first verse of the Bible (Genesis 1:1). Looking at the 7th word from the end of the last verse of the Bible (Which is Revelation 22:21) and is the name “Jesus.” So if you were to take the word “heaven” and “Jesus” (including Joshua - which means Jesus) and you add these words together, you get 1,554 (Which is 777 + 777). Note: When Jesus and Heaven are mentioned in the same verse there is 49 mentions (which is 7 x 7). So again, Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, or the first and the last.
- The word “Amen” (the last word in the KJB) (Revelation) shows up 77 times (capitalized) in all of the King James Bible. The last word in the book of Genesis is “Egypt” shows up 77 times in the book of Genesis.
- The first word in the Bible is “In” in Genesis 1:1, and the last word “Amen.” If you were to add the word “In” and “Amen” together you get 777 mentions in the book of Genesis, and the book of Revelation (Jesus is the Alpha and the Omega, the first and the last).
- If you look up “God” (who appears in the first verse of the Bible), and “Jesus” (who appears in the last verse of the Bible) you get a total of 343 mentions in the book of Genesis and the book of Revelation (Which is 7 x 7 x 7). The Alpha and the Omega.
- Genesis 1 describes God creating everything in 6 literal 24 hour days. If you take the first word “In” in Genesis chapter 1, and the last word “day” in Genesis chapter 1, they are mentioned 24 times in this chapter (Which is the 24 hour period of a day).
- If you were to count the words “In” and “day” in the whole Bible you would get the total mentions of 14406. The last two numbers from 14406 is 06 which is the number of days God created everything (Which is 6 days). 144 out of 14406 is how many hours are in 6 days. Meaning, there are 144 hours in 6 days. (14406 = 7 x 7 x 7 x 7 x 6). In other words God (7777) creates everything in 6 days.
- The first and last verses of the Bible each have 17 vowels, 27 consonants, and 44 letters. 17 and 27 are tied to the flood of Noah. In Genesis 7:11 it says the flood began on the 17th, and on the 27th the flood waters had abated in Genesis 8:14. Luke 17:27 talks about the flood and ties it in a few verses down with the return of the Son of Man (Luke 17:30), which is separated by 44 words with veres 28-29. (Note: Luke 17:27 is my addition to the video).
- Revelation 22 has 21 verses in the chapter (Which is 7 + 7 + 7). Revelation 22 is the 49th chapter to contain 21 verses (so it’s the 7 x 7 chapter). In the Greek alphabet, the letters have numeric values assigned to them. Jesus Christ's number in Greek is 888. Jesus Christ’s number in Hebrew ordinal =115. In Greek ordinal Jesus Christ = 205. Jesus Christ number in Hebrew standard = 754. Jesus Christ number in Greek standard = 2,368. Revelation 22 has 2240 letters. Revelation 22 has 805 vowels (which is 7 x 115) (Hebrew ordinal name of Jesus is 115; So it’s Jesus name in Hebrew x 7). Revelation 22 has 1435 consonants (which is 7 x 205) (Greek ordinal name of Jesus is 205; So it’s Jesus name in Greek x 7). Looking at the first seven verses of Revelation 22, it has 754 letters (Which is the Hebrew standard name of Jesus Christ).
- In the New Testament: Jesus = 980 (excluding anti-mentions) + Christ (excluding anti-mentions, but including the words “Christian” meaning Christ follower) = 574. So, 980 (Jesus) + 574 (Christ) = 1554, which is 777 + 777.
- John 1:17, the Law came by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. So if we were to look at the words “Moses” + “Jesus” + “Christ” we get a total of 7 x 7 x 7 x 7 mentions.
- In Genesis 1, when God is directly speaking, He speaks 7 x 7 x 7 words (i.e., 343 words).
- Seventh letter in the Hebrew alphabet is Z. (“Zayin” - sounds like Z). So the last letter for us is the 7th letter for Hebrew. If you count all words that start with A and Z (Alpha and Omega) in Genesis and Revelation you get 7723 words. It is the 980th Prime Number. Jesus shows up 980 times (See #5). If you look at all words that contain the letter A and Z, it is 7777.
- All times that the word “LORD” appears it is referring to Jehovah the holy name of God. “Lord” refers to Adonai or master. In 1611, the original King James Bible said only, "Lord" lower case in Matthew 22:44. But the King James Bible 1629 updated it to the LORD. The first time this word LORD (all capitalized) shows up, it is the 777th word of the chapter. Matthew 22:14 is also the 7th time it is quoting “LORD” from the Old Testament. (1) Matthew 3:3 (2) Matthew 4:7 (3) Matthew 4:10 (4) Matthew 5:33 (5) Matthew 21:9 (6) Matthew 22:37 (7) Matthew 22:44.
- All uppercase names of God in the Bible, and all mentions of Jesus. All uppercase names of God = 6790 (Which is 970 x 7). Jesus' name appears 980 times and 10 of those are possessive mentions (with the apostrophe). So the singular mention of Jesus is 970. If you were to add the uppercase names of Jesus like KING OF KINGS, etc. and BRANCH, and you include the 980 count (adding it to the 6790 number), you get a total of 7777 mentions.
- Counting the number of words in the first and last chapter of the Old Testament (Genesis and Malachi), you get 980 words. 980 is how many times Jesus name appears.
- 1 John 5:7 is one of the most attacked verses in the Bible by scholars. But if you were to count the words “The Father” + “The Word” + “Holy Ghost”, you get a total of 777 mentions (In fact, there are many patterns of the Godhead associated with the number 7).
- If you were to look at all occurrences of Father + Son (capitalized) in the King James Bible when they are talking about God and Jesus (Note: Example, Luke 16:24 is referring to Father Abraham and not God the Father). There are 70 x 7 mentions (490 mentions). If you were to look at the gospels involving "Father + Son”, you then get a total of 7 x 7 x 7 mentions. The first 7 epistles of “Father + Son”, you get a total of 7 x 7 mentions. The last 14 epistles there are 77 mentions of “Father + Son.” In the book of Revelation there are 7 mentions of “Father + Son.” If you look at total verses involving “Father + Son”, in the first 12 books you get 7 x 7 x 7. First seven, post gospels = 7 x 7, 7th epistle = 7, Pauline epistles = 70, Revelation = 70.
- If you were to look at “God + Jesus + Holy Spirit" in the New Testament you get a total of 777 x 3 mentions (2331). If you were to look at the words “God + Jesus + His Spirit” in the entire Bible, you get 777 x 7 mentions (5439).
- God + Father in the gospels you get 491 mentions. But there is one time where they are conjoined that says “God the Father”, which is in John 6:27. So if you were to take this as being conjoined, it is 490 which is 70 x 7 mentions.
- If you were to look at all forms of God (God, God’s, GOD) in the New Testament historical books like the gospels, and the book of Acts, you get a total mention of 490 (which is 70 x 7). New Testament epistles counting all forms of God (God, God’s, GOD) is 777 mentions.
- God appears 7 times in Revelation 22 (that last chapter of the Bible). First mention of God in Revelation 22 is the 77th letter of that chapter. The 490th letter of Revelation 22 is the first mention of Lord in that chapter.
- Jesus + Christ + Messias = 777 mentions.
All of this is verifable by his search files that you can check out at his website. More of his discoveries can be found in his book (Which can get the free online version) from his website. https://sealedbytheking.com/ He has another site called https://truthischrist.com/
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another King Jimmy worshiper 
This is also a part of my 101 Reasons for the King James Bible, as well.
Also, ask yourself, was Moses worshiping the tablets of the Ten Commandments just because he had a perfect collection of God’s words in his hands? No. Of course not. So then why would believers today be accused of this? Unless you’re Charismatic and you get a new vision of the week or you believe God speaks actual audible words to you, your disdain for the Bible which caused great revivals and has existed hundreds of years before Westcott and Hort showed up is showing.
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another King Jimmy worshiper
Those who hold to the King James Bible to not worship it but give it the respect and credit which is its due. And there are lots of Christians who will use on the KJB. Interestingly enough, when there are Hollywood movies quoting the Bible, they quote from this translation.
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Atheists have read the King James Bible. The key is whether one believes what it says whereby it can fully change them. Yes, I imagine you believe certain portions of the KJB in what it says, but by the way you speak in not having any reverence for it, you obviously do not believe its teaching on the doctrine of purity and preservation.
To see error in it so as to favor Textual Criticism or looking to a buffet of Modern babbling bibles because that is more comforting to you.
Psalms 119:140 (KJV)
”Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.”
Guess how your Modern Bible says it?
Psalms 119:140 (NIV)
”Your promises have been thoroughly tested, and your servant loves them.”
See? It changes it to just general promises (general truths), and not the word (words).
This is highly suspicious that the very belief you hold to is changed in your Modern Bibles. How convenient. You wouldn’t even have been able to believe this way until Westcott and Hort showed up.
But the point is that we are told in Scripture that God’s servant loves God’s words because they are very pure.
You believe in error ridden bibles or manuscripts as your source of what you think God says, and you have disdain for those who love God’s words believing it is pure. Think.
Lets look at another.
Psalms 138:2 (KJV) says,
”I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.”
This verse is altered in Modern Bibles. They remove the truth that God magnifies His Word above His name. So your Modern Bibles downplay the Word of God and its importance. Again, this is highly suspicious that your Vatican bibles would do this. They make changes that just conveniently fits your belief in not regarding the Word of God as being all that great. So then who becomes the authority if it is not the Bible entirely? It is either you or the scholar.
To see error in it so as to favor Textual Criticism or looking to a buffet of Modern babbling bibles because that is more comforting to you.
Psalms 119:140 (KJV)
”Thy word is very pure: therefore thy servant loveth it.”
Guess how your Modern Bible says it?
Psalms 119:140 (NIV)
”Your promises have been thoroughly tested, and your servant loves them.”
See? It changes it to just general promises (general truths), and not the word (words).
This is highly suspicious that the very belief you hold to is changed in your Modern Bibles. How convenient. You wouldn’t even have been able to believe this way until Westcott and Hort showed up.
But the point is that we are told in Scripture that God’s servant loves God’s words because they are very pure.
You believe in error ridden bibles or manuscripts as your source of what you think God says, and you have disdain for those who love God’s words believing it is pure. Think.
Lets look at another.
Psalms 138:2 (KJV) says,
”I will worship toward thy holy temple, and praise thy name for thy lovingkindness and for thy truth: for thou hast magnified thy word above all thy name.”
This verse is altered in Modern Bibles. They remove the truth that God magnifies His Word above His name. So your Modern Bibles downplay the Word of God and its importance. Again, this is highly suspicious that your Vatican bibles would do this. They make changes that just conveniently fits your belief in not regarding the Word of God as being all that great. So then who becomes the authority if it is not the Bible entirely? It is either you or the scholar.
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Revelation 13:18
”Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”
Well, looks like you are in disobedience to God because you refuse to count the number in Revelation 13:18 because you see it as occult numerology.
”Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.”
Well, looks like you are in disobedience to God because you refuse to count the number in Revelation 13:18 because you see it as occult numerology.
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Also, the patterns of numbers I shown do not appear on the same level as other so-called amazing number discoveries. If any book did what was listed from Brandon Peterson’s video, it should give a person pause. I don’t think you truly grasped or understood what was written on that list. That is why it is best to watch the video. It is more clear than the written form I tried to convey. But I had written it down to show folks that it is not just a hoax. It is real. I mean, what are the odds that the name of Jesus (excluding anti-mentions) just so happens to appear 70 x 7 times in both the odd and even books of the New Testament? 70 x 7 is not some random equation, either. 70 x 7 is how many times Jesus told Peter to forgive.
Then there is The first and last verses of the Bible each have 17 vowels, 27 consonants, and 44 letters.
17 and 27 are tied to the flood of Noah. In Genesis 7:11 it says the flood began on the 17th, and on the 27th the flood waters had abated in Genesis 8:14. Luke 17:27 talks about the flood and ties it in a few verses down with the return of the Son of Man (Luke 17:30), which is separated by 44 words with veres 28-29. (Note: Luke 17:27 is my addition to the video).
Then there is The first and last verses of the Bible each have 17 vowels, 27 consonants, and 44 letters.
17 and 27 are tied to the flood of Noah. In Genesis 7:11 it says the flood began on the 17th, and on the 27th the flood waters had abated in Genesis 8:14. Luke 17:27 talks about the flood and ties it in a few verses down with the return of the Son of Man (Luke 17:30), which is separated by 44 words with veres 28-29. (Note: Luke 17:27 is my addition to the video).
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