Faith Is A Constant

[NetChaplain]

One can truly believe there is a God, but lack the desire to believe in Him. Romans-One teaches that one can believe about God, that He is real, and at the same time not put trust in Him. Scripture says that He has proved to all that He is real by showing them all of what may be known about Himself (Rom 1:19). This revelation of Himself first comes by the “light” of nature, by us seeing the existence of what He has created. Creation itself is enough evidence for one to believe in God!

Therefore the Word declares none are “excused” from judgement for not wanting to believe in Him (v20). There are no genuine atheists, only those who falsely claim to disbelieve in His existence! In my opinion, the primary issue is that unbelief manifests one would rather continue in wrongful pleasures, instead of trusting and having faith in God (2Ti 3:4).

One of the greatest oxymoron concepts has to be the acceptance that one can claim to believe in God, then eventually claim not to believe in Him! To genuinely have faith in God is not something one can eventually apostatize from, because faith always produces. Faith can be diminished but never deleted once obtained. Thus, salvation is a constant like faith!

One professing Christianity can eventually claim to disbelieve, and if this is truly a permanent state of mind, it only manifests there was never any belief! One cannot claim to believe then claim to disbelieve—this wouldn’t make any type of sense at all. Genuine faith cannot become unbelief, and there’s nowhere in Scripture that declares this error, only misunderstanding of the way this issue is worded.

To believe is to be permanently convinced of something; otherwise it wasn’t belief, but just something you thought you believed in. One can think they believe in God and eventually discover that they don’t truly believe in Him; but one cannot truly believe in Him and then later truly disbelieve in Him. Therefore, we either believe, or still have yet to believe (1Jo 2:19).
NC

 

[Eli1]

I agree with you that there are no 'genuine atheists' because even a person raised in the amazon forest isolated from the civilization, has an inclination to believe in a higher power all on their own.

As far as salvation goes, I'll leave that alone since it would be like beating many dead horses.

 

[Karlon]

I agree with you that there are no 'genuine atheists' because even a person raised in the amazon forest isolated from the civilization, has an inclination to believe in a higher power all on their own.

As far as salvation goes, I'll leave that alone since it would be like beating many dead horses.

in addition to that, God will not send Jesus down until every person has had the chance to hear about Him.

 

[Lynx]

To believe is to be permanently convinced of something; otherwise it wasn’t belief, but just something you thought you believed in. One can think they believe in God and eventually discover that they don’t truly believe in Him; but one cannot truly believe in Him and then later truly disbelieve in Him. Therefore, we either believe, or still have yet to believe (1Jo 2:19).
NC

Nah. You could just think you were wrong before.

I remember when I was a kid, I believed east was west and vice versa. I lived on a back road to the NORTH of the highway, so we went down south to the highway. East was to the left and west was to the right. But on a map east was right and west was left, so I spent a good few years believing they were backward.

It was terribly disorienting when I found out the truth...

I sincerely believed they were inverted for a while though. It wasn't permanent, but that doesn't mean I didn't really believe it when I was a kid.

 

[NetChaplain]

I agree with you that there are no 'genuine atheists' because even a person raised in the amazon forest isolated from the civilization, has an inclination to believe in a higher power all on their own.

As far as salvation goes, I'll leave that alone since it would be like beating many dead horses.

Hi, and appreciate the reply! The teaching of Romans 1:19, 20 is that nature alone is evidence enough for one to seek out God, and are "without excuse" if they don't!

 

[NetChaplain]

in addition to that, God will not send Jesus down until every person has had the chance to hear about Him.

Thanks for the reply! Yes, and seeing creation is enough evidence for one to seek God, if they desire to be right with Him!

 

[NetChaplain]

Nah. You could just think you were wrong before.

You mean wrong, that there is no God? Not sure what you mean, but thanks for the reply.

 

[Lynx]

You mean wrong, that there is no God? Not sure what you mean, but thanks for the reply.

Hmm... I thought I made it apparent.

Oh well. Let's try again.

To believe is to be permanently convinced of something; otherwise it wasn’t belief, but just something you thought you believed in.

This is an illogical statement.

I proved it thus: When I was a kid I sincerely believed east was west. When I looked at a map I found out I was wrong. That doesn't mean I didn't really believe east was west when I was a kid and didn't know any better. I didn't just think I believed it. I really did believe east was in the direction the rest of the world agrees west is.

 

[NetChaplain]

Hmm... I thought I made it apparent.

Oh well. Let's try again.


This is an illogical statement.

I proved it thus: When I was a kid I sincerely believed east was west. When I looked at a map I found out I was wrong. That doesn't mean I didn't really believe east was west when I was a kid and didn't know any better. I didn't just think I believed it. I really did believe east was in the direction the rest of the world agrees west is.

I see, and thanks for the clarification. Of course, we're discussing faith in God, which is not the same as believing in anything else!

 

[Lynx]

I see, and thanks for the clarification. Of course, we're discussing faith in God, which is not the same as believing in anything else!

The same logic applies to belief in God. I've seen it happen a lot.

Somebody grows up believing in God, believes in God all its life. Then some disaster occurs. He prays for a miracle but God does not do what he wanted. "How could a loving God leave me alone in such a terrible mess?" He stops believing in God.

That does not obviate his previous belief in God. Before this disaster he did firmly and wholeheartedly believe in God. You can't prove he didn't and all logic says he did.

 

[NetChaplain]

The same logic applies to belief in God. I've seen it happen a lot.

Somebody grows up believing in God, believes in God all its life. Then some disaster occurs. He prays for a miracle but God does not do what he wanted. "How could a loving God leave me alone in such a terrible mess?" He stops believing in God.

That does not obviate his previous belief in God. Before this disaster he did firmly and wholeheartedly believe in God. You can't prove he didn't and all logic says he did.

That is just one who "thought" he believed in God, but really didn't. If one truly believes--it's permanent. The primary means of knowing one believes is in consistency; if it's hypocrisy, they will eventually permanently discontinue professing Christianity.

 

[Lynx]

That is just one who "thought" he believed in God, but really didn't. If one truly believes--it's permanent. The primary means of knowing one believes is in consistency; if it's hypocrisy, they will eventually permanently discontinue professing Christianity.

If a person stops believing in God he is automatically a hypocrite? That's even more illogical.

Also, dude! Way to kick a brother when he is down! A brother in Christ has a crisis of faith and you automatically call him a hypocrite?

"Christianity is the only army that executes its own wounded." I haven't seen it much in my church, but you provide an excellent example. It's... disheartening to know that saying is generally true for Christians.

 

[Cameron143]

If a person stops believing in God he is automatically a hypocrite? That's even more illogical.

Also, dude! Way to kick a brother when he is down! A brother in Christ has a crisis of faith and you automatically call him a hypocrite?

"Christianity is the only army that executes its own wounded." I haven't seen it much in my church, but you provide an excellent example. It's... disheartening to know that saying is generally true for Christians.

Why the anger? He wasn't implying a specific person was a hypocrite. He merely expressed his belief that someone who is a hypocrite will eventually fall away. While Christians often do execute their own, this isn't what the OP is doing. Sounds like you have a wound that hasn't healed.

 

[Lynx]

Why the anger? He wasn't implying a specific person was a hypocrite. He merely expressed his belief that someone who is a hypocrite will eventually fall away. While Christians often do execute their own, this isn't what the OP is doing. Sounds like you have a wound that hasn't healed.

Nope. He flat out said if somebody changes his mind and no longer believes in god, he is a hypocrite. That statement has been proven illogical and cannot in any manner be logically supported.

I don't care what he personally believes, but if you make a blanket statement that illogical you can't expect me to believe it.

 

[NetChaplain]

If a person stops believing in God he is automatically a hypocrite?

One cannot go in and out of faith. It's either genuine or one truly doesn't have faith. Once faith is obtained it moves you continuously forward to maturity in Christ image; it never goes backward!

If one truly "draws back into perdition" (Heb 10:38, 39), he has never had faith and has yet to be saved. The primary manifestation of salvation is in the permanent position one maintains in Christ. All hypocrites will apostatize and show they weren't saved by leaving the Christian profession.

 

[Cameron143]

Nope. He flat out said if somebody changes his mind and no longer believes in god, he is a hypocrite. That statement has been proven illogical and cannot in any manner be logically supported.

I don't care what he personally believes, but if you make a blanket statement that illogical you can't expect me to believe it.

He clearly wrote "if" it's hypocrisy. And logic isn't exactly a hallmark of CC.

 

[Eli1]

Lynx, i think brother NetChaplain is making a salvation argument here that's why there's a misunderstanding but i get what you're saying though.

I completely agree with the 'No genuine atheist' comment though because a few years ago i have seen a few documentaries on this topic where they filmed people living in the amazon forest and they were isolated from the world. When asked questions about God, they said that they did believe in a Creator. So you could make the argument here that even a human raised by the wolves in the forest shows inclinations towards His Creator.

The other arguments are simply different theological viewpoints (OSAS etc) but the core foundation between a believer or a non-believer is there.
I personally don't think that a genuine non-believer exists based on what i've seen and people i've interacted with. I also have some personal experience on this since i've lived in a communist system with a state-mandated atheism like North Korea and when i was a child and before the Berlin wall fell, i reached an age where i was more self-aware about existence, i started to ask questions about God without anyone telling me anything about God.

 

[Lynx]

i reached an age where i was more self-aware about existence, i started to ask questions about God without anyone telling me anything about God.

Velly intellestink... Thank you for sharing that.

But it doesn't address his blanket statement that people who change their minds are hypocrites. I know some good people who have had bad things happen to them, and changed their minds about God. Do YOU want to tell them they're just hypocrites?

 

[Eli1]

Velly intellestink... Thank you for sharing that.

But it doesn't address his blanket statement that people who change their minds are hypocrites. I know some good people who have had bad things happen to them, and changed their minds about God. Do YOU want to tell them they're just hypocrites?

I certainly won't tell them that. At that time they need help and a hug not more judgment. They need someone to share their burden with not more lecturing.
These types of misunderstanding can happen tho and you won't reach agreement but pray that God gives you grace to understand the situation and take the best action available.