The Security Of The Believer

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

NightTwister

Well-known member
Jul 5, 2023
2,098
790
113
65
Colorado, USA
Looking at all of believers through time, it adds up, but there are believers who will populate (families having children) in the Millennium and the New Earth, as well. There will also be many saints who will come to the faith during the Tribulation period, as well.
Your math skills need a lot of work.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,110
960
113
Right, like Ephesians 2:8-9.

Ephesians 2:1 says you have been quickened (or made alive). This obviously happened one time when we first accepted the gospel in 1 Corinthians 15:1-4, and we sought forgiveness with the Lord Jesus according to Romans 10:9, and Romans 10:13. We gain access to God’s grace through faith (Romans 5:2).

A person who believes the gospel message and receives Christ as their Savior when they have only a few minutes to live will be saved.
So in some cases, a person can be saved solely by God’s grace through faith without works.
Even babies who die are not even saved by faith. They are saved solely by God’s grace (Which is provided by what Jesus did for us with His death, burial, and resurrection).


Well, you are not quoting the entire verse that has the conditions in it.
I am sure you have read this verse a ton of times and never seen it.

Lets read the full version of this verse.

John 5:24
”Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.”

So the conditions for you to have everlasting life, and to not come into condemnation and to pass from death unto life is….

#1. Hear or obey God’s Word (i.e., heareth my word)​
(Note: A similar phrase of hearing or obeying God’s Word is used by Jesus in John 8:47).​
#2 Believe on him (the Father) that sent Jesus.​

So we have to be meeting these two conditions. Meaning, if you are not obeying God’s Word you do not have eternal life.
This is also expressed in 1 John 2:4. The person who says they know the Lord and they do not keep His commandments is a liar and the truth is not in them.
Such conditions for everlasting life revealed in the scripture are by hearing not obeying and believing. For it is hearing and hearing by the word of God comes faith. Romans 10:17. We obey because we are saved and not to be saved.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,203
6,608
113
62
This is true. But this is in reference to the saints who came out of the Tribulation. But Jesus’ words have to be true in some way in Matthew 7:14. Jesus was clearly saying FEW find eternal life, and this is in context to self professing believers. So imagine the number of believers who didn’t make it into God’s kingdom.
No need to imagine...0.
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,070
335
83
Why would you ask that? Nothing I've said would make anyone believe that I am.
And neither have I said anything that would indicate that I am, either.
I have defended the traditional view of the Trinity clearly in the other thread you posted at.
I even said in the other thread that the ”Ye are gods” verse by Jesus is not in reference to deity.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
In other words, Abraham did obey by simply offering up his Son. That was the real instructions. The Modern Versions pervert this truth.
I'm convinced that the serpent was a preacher selling his own version of God's word.
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,070
335
83
You simply misunderstand what they teach.
Statements like this are simply an avoidance of having to actually deal with the Bible actually says. The burden of proof is on you to make your case biblically how this even remotely so. Meaning, if you cannot discuss how I am misunderstanding these verses, then your statement is just empty and hollow and has no substance. We can discuss them if you like. Do you not believe others will benefit by the discussion?
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,070
335
83
I'm convinced that the serpent was a preacher selling his own version of God's word.
Sounds kind of weird. Anyway, are you against Modern Translations and do you prefer the King James Bible over all others?
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,070
335
83
No need to imagine...0.
So you believe there will be many self professing Christians who will not make it into God’s Kingdom?
I believe this is the case based on Matthew 7:14 and by looking at Matthew 7:22-23, and Matthew 13:41-42.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,203
6,608
113
62
Statements like this are simply an avoidance of having to actually deal with the Bible actually says. The burden of proof is on you to make your case biblically how this even remotely so. Meaning, if you cannot discuss how I am misunderstanding these verses, then your statement is just empty and hollow and has no substance. We can discuss them if you like. Do you not believe others will benefit by the discussion?
Nope. I already explained. So the verses you shared that you believe say otherwise you are responsible to explain.
I'm not asking you to though. I already know the explanation will be faulty based on your statements.
 

Mem

Senior Member
Sep 23, 2014
7,159
2,174
113
So you are against Modern Translations and you prefer the King James Bible over all others?
over all others? this wording seems a bit... what's the word I'm wanting....
At any rate, there's no getting around translating scripture into right ideas, even if reading from the originals. You either get the idea or you mix it up for another idea that misses, and even barely missing it is still missing it. Much like sin. You don't get points for almost hitting perfect, if you're aiming for it, only a bullseye wins you the trophy.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,203
6,608
113
62
So you believe there will be many self professing Christians who will not make it into God’s Kingdom?
I believe this is the case based on Matthew 7:14 and by looking at Matthew 7:22-23, and Matthew 13:41-42.
You have moved the goalposts. First you said believers. Now you say self processing Christians. Which is it?
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,070
335
83
Such conditions for everlasting life revealed in the scripture are by hearing not obeying and believing. For it is hearing and hearing by the word of God comes faith. Romans 10:17. We obey because we are saved and not to be saved.
In John chapter 8, Jesus said the Jews were of their father the devil and the lusts of their father they will do. In verse 47 Jesus says, "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.” Obviously their doing sinful lusts like their father the devil has a great impact on why they were not able to understand or hear Jesus’ words. Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. For example: Jesus says repent or perish. Jesus warned about how certain sins can keep us out of God’s Kingdom like lusting after a woman (Matthew 5:28-30), unforgiveness (Matthew 6:15), speaking the wrong words (Matthew 12:37), not helping the poor (Matthew 25:31-46), and turning back in preaching the gospel (Luke 9:62). One is obviously not hearing God’s words if they ignore these warnings in Scripture. Most Christians today do. They do not think there is any danger even when they are in sin. They have not passed from death unto life because they did not hear God’s words in regards to hearing the warnings about how sin destroys our souls in the afterlife and if we don’t confess and forsake such sins, we are toast.
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,070
335
83
over all others? this wording seems a bit... what's the word I'm wanting....
I have no idea about what you are talking about here.

You said:
At any rate, there's no getting around translating scripture into right ideas, even if reading from the originals.
There are no originals!
What we have today are copies of copies of copies of copies.
This was even the case in the New Testament.
The Ethiopian eunuch did not have an original of Isaiah.
He had a copy and it was called Scripture.
2 Timothy 3:16 says ALL Scripture is inspired.
So what the copy of Scripture he had was inspired.

You said:
You either get the idea or you mix it up for another idea that misses, and even barely missing it is still missing it.
This is too vague of a saying. I have no idea of what you are talking about.

You said:
Much like sin. You don't get points for almost hitting perfect, if you're aiming for it, only a bullseye wins you the trophy.
Most Christians think like this in regards to sin and what Christ did. So they believe they can sin and still be saved. But ask yourself if this aligns with Matthew 7:22-23, and Matthew 13:41-42.
 

Cameron143

Well-known member
Mar 1, 2022
19,203
6,608
113
62
In John chapter 8, Jesus said the Jews were of their father the devil and the lusts of their father they will do. In verse 47 Jesus says, "He that is of God heareth God's words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.” Obviously their doing sinful lusts like their father the devil has a great impact on why they were not able to understand or hear Jesus’ words. Paul says in 1 Timothy 6:3-4 that if any man does not agree with the words of Jesus Christ and the doctrine according to godliness, he is proud and he knows nothing. James 4:6 says God resists the proud and gives grace to the humble. For example: Jesus says repent or perish. Jesus warned about how certain sins can keep us out of God’s Kingdom like lusting after a woman (Matthew 5:28-30), unforgiveness (Matthew 6:15), speaking the wrong words (Matthew 12:37), not helping the poor (Matthew 25:31-46), and turning back in preaching the gospel (Luke 9:62). One is obviously not hearing God’s words if they ignore these warnings in Scripture. Most Christians today do. They do not think there is any danger even when they are in sin. They have not passed from death unto life because they did not hear God’s words in regards to hearing the warnings about how sin destroys our souls in the afterlife and if we don’t confess and forsake such sins, we are toast.
They were never saved in the first place. And we know this because they didn't hear. No hearing...no faith. No faith...no grace. No grace...no salvation.
Saved by grace through faith.
 

Bible_Highlighter

Well-known member
Nov 28, 2023
2,070
335
83
You have moved the goalposts. First you said believers. Now you say self processing Christians. Which is it?
Well, they undoubtedly believe they are saved and genuine themselves. So in their own minds, they think they are saved believers, and they no doubt will convince others of the same. But their belief is simply not in line with the Bible. They are merely self professing believers in light of His Word. They cherry pick the Bible to justify sin and Jesus will tell them to depart from Him because they did not play ball on God’s terms. They did not believe Jesus when He warned about sin in Matthew 5:28-30, Matthew 6:15, Matthew 12:37, Matthew 25:31-46, Luke 9:62. They did not believe Paul when he said, God has chosen you to salvation through the Sanctification of the Spirit and a belief of the truth (2 Thessalonians 2:13). They did not believe the apostle Paul when he said, “…let us cleanse ourselves from all filthiness of the flesh and spirit perfecting holiness in the fear of God.” They did not believe Paul when he said if you do not provide for your own, you are worse than an unbeliever (1 Timothy 5:8).