The Wrecklessness of Believing that Satan is Already Bound
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Never heard this before. Could you elaborate with scripture. about Gods people being in heaven, and wicked being dead? When satan is released. it says he stirs up people again and they attempt to attack God and his people. At which time Gods makes and end of time as we know it. Who are these people if they are in heaven, and the wicked are dead?
not at all dear.
i actually looked at all the positions. considered them all fairly, checking each against what i alredy knew, then researching the orgins and historicity of each position.
i'm completely confident and have the Spirit's testimony that we are living now in the Messianic/Salvation portion of Redemptive History (figuratively called a thousand years), and that we have satan's little season (when he is released) ahead of us - "trib", then the Second Advent and Resurrection/ Judgment and New Heaven/New Earth and New Jerusalem.
Amen.
nothing there about a 1,000 year reign before judgment day. because it isn't in there.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
So when did the abomination of desolation take place within the 7 years immediately following the time messiah was "cut off" And for that fact. Since then?
No, I never doubted or became double-minded about it. I was convinced of the truth in these matters early as a believer and I was never swayed by the teachings of others that did not believe, who contradicted the truth I have in Christ. It was all by grace in growing up in the knowledge of the truth and it is a vital part of my faith and our faith that we have in Christ.
A
Abiding
Guest
I was a garden variety premil dispy. But i had just a few things that bugged me out.
So the first time i looked at amil i was convinced. Never liked those animal sacrifices
In the Kingdom. Never liked God being on earth with fallen man unredeemed.
A last week never made any sense at all for Isreal. Just doesnt fit the pattern
of History to do that. Or dan 9
So the first time i looked at amil i was convinced. Never liked those animal sacrifices
In the Kingdom. Never liked God being on earth with fallen man unredeemed.
A last week never made any sense at all for Isreal. Just doesnt fit the pattern
of History to do that. Or dan 9
L
Laodicea
Guest
Revelation 20:4
(4) And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
The thrones are in heaven Jesus said that He was going to prepare a place for us in heaven that we will be with him.
Revelation 20:5-7
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
(7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,
These verses are telling us that the wicked die at the start of the 1000 years and live again at the end of it.
L
Laodicea
Guest
This is not the thread for that but, there have been other threads that have explained all that about the 70 weeks.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
yeah there has. And I have seen no proof it has been fulfilled. only speculation. You brought it up. so I asked you about it. if you did not want to discuss it, maybe you should not have brought it up.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
yes. But I did not see where it says there will be no one on earth.. where does it say that?
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Laodicea
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Sorry had to reread this. I misunderstood it at first. .
7 Now when the thousand years have expired, Satan will be released from his prison 8 and will go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, whose number is as the sand of the sea. 9 They went up on the breadth of the earth and surrounded the camp of the saints and the beloved city. And fire came down from God out of heaven and devoured them. 10 The devil, who deceived them, was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone where[b] the beast and the false prophet are. And they will be tormented day and night forever and ever.
Now. This says satan is released and again decieves the nations. what nations? If no one is on earth.
this also says These nations have armies, and they come to attack the saints who are with Jesus in the beloved city (one can assume jerusalem) How were these people here if no one was on earth?
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Laodicea
Guest
Jeremiah 4:23-26
(23) I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
(24) I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
(25) I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
(26) I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Revelation 16:19-20
(19) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
(20) And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.
Jeremiah says that there is no man no birds the earth has no light and Revelation 16 says a similar thing these are prophecies for the future when will they be fulfilled? If there are people on earth they cannot be fulfilled.
Isaiah 13:9-13
(9) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
(10) For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
(11) And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
(12) I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
(13) Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.
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Laodicea
Guest
Revelation 20:5-6
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
There is 2 resurrections one at the start of the 1000 years and the other at the end, also the city and God's people come down at the end of the 1000 years read Rev 21:1-8, it gives more detail on Revelation 20 it has the city coming down the camp of the saints (20:9) then mentions who receives the second death
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Ok. I see where Evil will be wiped off the earth. And no man will live. But I do not see where those who "endure to the end" will be saved. As God has promised would happen? where are they during this time? and are not the "nations and peoples" who satan decieves after the 1000 years offspring of these people who endure to the end? And enter the 1000 year time with Christ?
if you think about it. After the "wrath of God" is poured out on the earth. There will not be many left when Christ returns. (In fact we are told one third of the earth will be destroyed with fire from heaven, which is approximately the land mass of north and south america) I could easily see Isaiah looking at the war torn land and seeing no people or birds. In fact, if a major nuclear detonation occurred with today nuclear devises. this is exactly what you would see. So to think God could not do this would wrong thinking.
could it not be this is what Isaiah is looking at. and not the whole earth. where God has protected some of his people. and brought them into the 1000 years with him?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
1. Nothing is said about the 2nd resurrection being people returning to earth. All it says is they are ressurected after the 1000 years is up. We can not take from the information given they are resurrected to return to earth.
2. If these people were dead, and in Hades for 1000 years. They would not need satan to deceive them. They would take up arms with no deception to try to defeat Christ. it makes no sense to say Satan had to deceive them. Satan can only deceive those who do not know him. These people would know him quite well. They would also know they were decieved by him once and are eternally condemned for it. Believe you me, they would not follow him.
3. The city of Gods people do not come down until the current heaven and earth are destroyed. It comes down to the new earth. Not the old one. This does not happen until after the great battle which satan conjures up has been destroyed by God.
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Laodicea
Guest
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
What city? If the city is not on earth then what are these people on earth attacking? the city does not come down until after this earth is destroyed. meaning long after these events take place.
Who are they attacking? Again if no one is on earth there is no one to attack.
God devours them with fire. These people do not have resurrected bodies which can not be devoured. They are human, with all the characteristics of human form. (even the wicked in their resurrected bodies will not be able to be consumed by fire. For they are cast in an eternal fire which will never be quenched. Not to mention. if it is these "resurrected" people as you say, and they are killed again. They will have to be resurrected another time to stand judgment.
Remember, it does not say satan was devoured. it says he was cast to hell.
I am just trying to understand it. You are the first person I have ever seen who believes what you have shared here today.
I was a lonely new Christian. Never even stepped foot in a church. Decided to go online and gather with brethren. When I first heard people talking about and Earthly millenial kingdom it didnt make any sense whatsoever. I never got that impression at all from a simple reading of scripture. All the OT prophesises people were throwing around seemed to me to be already fulfilled in Christ. Jesus never talked about any thousand year Earthly reign, in fact He said His kingdom is NOT of this world. Why wont people FIRST listen to the King?!
*sigh* ....some say he's not even King now.