TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!
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“The earth also is defiled under the inhabitants thereof; because they have transgressed the laws, changed the ordinance, broken the everlasting covenant.
Therefore hath the curse devoured the earth, and they that dwell therein are desolate: therefore the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men left. Fear, and the pit, and the snare, are upon thee, O inhabitant of the earth.
The earth is utterly broken down, the earth is clean dissolved, the earth is moved exceedingly. The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again.”
Isaiah 24:5-6, 17, 19-20
The Old Testament about israel is what set the New Testament up for the world . Israel’s fate directly affects the whole earth thier breaking of the covenant affected everything beginning with Jerusalem and spreading into the whole earth until the earth ends the same way
yeah …..also who would want this sacrifice
“But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”
Hebrews 10:3-4 KJV
that’s the opposite of remission of sins a constant reminder of your sinfulness v remission of all your sins
“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.”
Hebrews 10:10-
all sufficient
“But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.”
Hebrews 10:3-4 KJV
that’s the opposite of remission of sins a constant reminder of your sinfulness v remission of all your sins
“By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
And every priest standeth daily ministering and offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins:
but this man, after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God; from henceforth expecting till his enemies be made his footstool.”
Hebrews 10:10-
all sufficient
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Was it meaningless for him to tell them when he would return. even though they would never witness it?
Actually he did it twice before. One by Babylon, and once by Assyria. if you read Lef 26, You will see it happened just as God said it would..
No. Because all flesh was not threatened, and it was not the greatest tribulation from that time. WW1 and WW2 were far greater..
The old covenant ended the day Jesus died. Why do you think it was in AD 70?
This is not about the old covenant anyway. It is about an event that would happen on the earth.
As for the end, What did the disciples ask.
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
“Tell us, when will these things be? And
what will be the sign of Your coming, and of
the end of the age?”
they asked three questions.
The end of the age he asked first.. When he gives all the signs, Including wars and rumers of wars. nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom.. This is alot of future in view.. And even then, he says the e4nd is not yet.
He then talks about the event in the future that would lead them to the actual events leading up to the end of the age.. The abomination of desolation and the great tribulation.
He finally answers the question about his return.
After the abomination of desolation. The world will see him coming in the cloud and morn.
The end of the age is in question.. And the time of his return.
And vs 4 - 14 are events which will come before any of these events take place.
Those events did not take place between the time jesus spoke these words and AD 70.. Just another reason to reject the view it has already happened
Actually he did it twice before. One by Babylon, and once by Assyria. if you read Lef 26, You will see it happened just as God said it would..
No. Because all flesh was not threatened, and it was not the greatest tribulation from that time. WW1 and WW2 were far greater..
The old covenant ended the day Jesus died. Why do you think it was in AD 70?
This is not about the old covenant anyway. It is about an event that would happen on the earth.
As for the end, What did the disciples ask.
3 Now as He sat on the Mount of Olives, the disciples came to Him privately, saying,
“Tell us, when will these things be? And
what will be the sign of Your coming, and of
the end of the age?”
they asked three questions.
The end of the age he asked first.. When he gives all the signs, Including wars and rumers of wars. nation rising against nation and kingdom against kingdom.. This is alot of future in view.. And even then, he says the e4nd is not yet.
He then talks about the event in the future that would lead them to the actual events leading up to the end of the age.. The abomination of desolation and the great tribulation.
He finally answers the question about his return.
After the abomination of desolation. The world will see him coming in the cloud and morn.
The end of the age is in question.. And the time of his return.
And vs 4 - 14 are events which will come before any of these events take place.
Those events did not take place between the time jesus spoke these words and AD 70.. Just another reason to reject the view it has already happened
Amen
the old had to be fuflilled before the new could be given
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
Matthew 5:17-18 KJV
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:44-48 KJV
“Literal events must take place. You have no literal events in your message.. Until then.. You have nothing for me
i don’t think anyone would have anything acceptable to you unless they were saying “ wow your so correct about all this teach me more “
So I think your right I don’t have anything for you
the old had to be fuflilled before the new could be given
“Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.”
Matthew 5:17-18 KJV
“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.
Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures, and said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. And ye are witnesses of these things.”
Luke 24:44-48 KJV
“Literal events must take place. You have no literal events in your message.. Until then.. You have nothing for me
i don’t think anyone would have anything acceptable to you unless they were saying “ wow your so correct about all this teach me more “
So I think your right I don’t have anything for you
I take God at his word. When he says something would happen it will. It’s his reputation on the line. not mine or yours.
So when you take literal prophecy and proclaim they will nto literally come true. Then no. You have noting for me..
Anyone could claim they were born from a virgin in belthlehem. Or they came out of Galilee.
But if they do not fit to the letter everything the prophets said about Christ. They are not Christ.
It is how we can prove God is a God who knows the future. Or how we can determine if we see an event is it a prophetic event or not.
If ALL the things do not come true literally. Than we cna know it is not prophecy.
If you have no literal events taking place. Like your proposing, You have no prophecy at all. we can make things up and claim it is fulfillment of prophecy and no one can prove us wrong.. then we can attack people who do not agree wiht us as unlearned..
So when you take literal prophecy and proclaim they will nto literally come true. Then no. You have noting for me..
Anyone could claim they were born from a virgin in belthlehem. Or they came out of Galilee.
But if they do not fit to the letter everything the prophets said about Christ. They are not Christ.
It is how we can prove God is a God who knows the future. Or how we can determine if we see an event is it a prophetic event or not.
If ALL the things do not come true literally. Than we cna know it is not prophecy.
If you have no literal events taking place. Like your proposing, You have no prophecy at all. we can make things up and claim it is fulfillment of prophecy and no one can prove us wrong.. then we can attack people who do not agree wiht us as unlearned..
Actually, Jesus tells His listeners that what He was saying was for them...Matthew 24:34. This is completely logical because He was soon to be crucified and a new covenant would be instituted. This would likely lead to much confusion and consternation.
Why do you believe at the onset of the book of Revelation we are told that the reader and hearer will be blessed? Because despite all the chaos in Jerusalem in the 1st century, they will understand what is going on and be comforted in knowing He will be caring for them.
Why the great concern on the part of Israel? Because they were well aware that a new covenant that was prophesied meant the old covenant would end. What did that mean for Israel? The old covenant was ending. And the old covenant was fraught with stipulations. But it was also fraught with sanctions for failing to keep the stipulations. The book of Revelation is primarily concerned what was...covenant stipulations, what is...the sanctions that culminate in the destruction of the temple, and what will be...God's ongoing plan to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory...the new covenant...the new heaven and new earth...the church.
Why do you believe at the onset of the book of Revelation we are told that the reader and hearer will be blessed? Because despite all the chaos in Jerusalem in the 1st century, they will understand what is going on and be comforted in knowing He will be caring for them.
Why the great concern on the part of Israel? Because they were well aware that a new covenant that was prophesied meant the old covenant would end. What did that mean for Israel? The old covenant was ending. And the old covenant was fraught with stipulations. But it was also fraught with sanctions for failing to keep the stipulations. The book of Revelation is primarily concerned what was...covenant stipulations, what is...the sanctions that culminate in the destruction of the temple, and what will be...God's ongoing plan to fill the earth with the knowledge of His glory...the new covenant...the new heaven and new earth...the church.
I don't think you should worry about some people not believing that these prophecies are to be fulfilled in the future - no matter what they believe, all of the prophecies will come to pass.
I'm just wondering if all these prophecies will happen in our lifetime. I think they are, but I need to study the Bible more about the characteristics of the end times and see if they are here in this lifetime.
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I think we are seeing the birth pangs.. But how long will they last?
As for the temple. They have everything they need. They could build it in a year.. The Bible does not say if it is built before or after the 7 year period. it just says in the middle of that week. Shall be an abomination of desolation that starts literally the final days of earth as we know it.
As for the temple. They have everything they need. They could build it in a year.. The Bible does not say if it is built before or after the 7 year period. it just says in the middle of that week. Shall be an abomination of desolation that starts literally the final days of earth as we know it.
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matt 24:
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, [b]pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Please share when in the first century these events took place.. Especially the birth pangs, or the begining of sorrows as my translation puts it..
4 And Jesus answered and said to them: “Take heed that no one deceives you. 5 For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I am the Christ,’ and will deceive many. 6 And you will hear of wars and rumors of wars. See that you are not troubled; for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.
7 For nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. And there will be famines, [b]pestilences, and earthquakes in various places. 8 All these are the beginning of sorrows.
9 “Then they will deliver you up to tribulation and kill you, and you will be hated by all nations for My name’s sake. 10 And then many will be offended, will betray one another, and will hate one another. 11 Then many false prophets will rise up and deceive many. 12 And because lawlessness will abound, the love of many will grow cold. 13 But he who endures to the end shall be saved. 14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in all the world as a witness to all the nations, and then the end will come.
15 “Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place” (whoever reads, let him understand), 16 “then let those who are in Judea flee to the mountains. 17 Let him who is on the housetop not go down to take anything out of his house. 18 And let him who is in the field not go back to get his clothes. 19 But woe to those who are pregnant and to those who are nursing babies in those days! 20 And pray that your flight may not be in winter or on the Sabbath. 21 For then there will be great tribulation, such as has not been since the beginning of the world until this time, no, nor ever shall be. 22 And unless those days were shortened, no flesh would be saved; but for the [c]elect’s sake those days will be shortened.
23 “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There!’ do not believe it. 24 For false christs and false prophets will rise and show great signs and wonders to deceive, if possible, even the elect. 25 See, I have told you beforehand.
26 “Therefore if they say to you, ‘Look, He is in the desert!’ do not go out; or ‘Look, He is in the inner rooms!’ do not believe it. 27 For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the Son of Man be. 28 For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.
The Coming of the Son of Man
29 “Immediately after the tribulation of those days the sun will be darkened, and the moon will not give its light; the stars will fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens will be shaken. 30 Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. 31 And He will send His angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they will gather together His [d]elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.
Please share when in the first century these events took place.. Especially the birth pangs, or the begining of sorrows as my translation puts it..
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“Why did he say let the reader understand. if it was the people he spoke to? “
because he was speaking to people who had the prophets and read them daily the prophets and law is Israel’s national history and culture he was talking about daniels prophecy ….
“I take God at his word. When he says something would happen it will.”
Yeah we agree on that part it’s just that some won’t listen to what he’s said.
“So when you take literal prophecy and proclaim they will nto literally come true. Then no. You have noting for me..”
lol what part are you talking about ? The destruction of Jerusalem and its temple that happened 2000 years ago ? Is that what hasn’t happened yet or ? Maybe this part didn’t happen yet ?
“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
Daniel 12:1-2
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains: let him which is on the house top not come down to take any thing out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
Matthew 24:15-21
that happened in 67-70 ad Jerusalem was besieged and destroyed by rome it’s temple eas destroyed and hasn’t been rebuilt in 2000 years
Im not even sure what you are claiming hasn’t happened yet lol
The temple being rebuilt by God ? Is that the one ?
“Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. But he spake of the temple of his body.”
John 2:19, 21 KJV
It seems like your waiting for isralites to build God a temple song is spirit can come and appear in the center of it maybe they could sacrifice bulls and goats again so they could be reminded of thier sins If they rebuilt a temple I suppose maybe they could annoy t some new levite preists that can’t atone for sin
He’s already in his temple
“Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things,
as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
Hebrews 8:1-2, 4-6
your still looking at this world
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
John 18:36 KJV
But indeed this isnt for you your waiting for man to beyond a building but drastically missing the word of God
“Now therefore ye ( gentiles ) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:19-22 KJV
there’s no use for a temple God lives in us there’s no need for a temple on the new world we’re promised God himself will walk among us
again to be clear yes Gods word is true I think you don’t understand it is my position not that Gods word is wrong but your interpretation of it is wrong
God already raised up his temple he’s never going to return to earth and dwell in a building made of rock and layered with gold that was only ever a pattern til Jesus came forth with reality
Your looking at the world and Old Testament not the kingdom of God
“Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
… For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:”
Hebrews 9:1, 24 KJV
The temple tbey made was only a figure and pattern of the true temple in heaven it isn’t about the Old Testament anymore that’s all fulfilled
because he was speaking to people who had the prophets and read them daily the prophets and law is Israel’s national history and culture he was talking about daniels prophecy ….
“I take God at his word. When he says something would happen it will.”
Yeah we agree on that part it’s just that some won’t listen to what he’s said.
“So when you take literal prophecy and proclaim they will nto literally come true. Then no. You have noting for me..”
lol what part are you talking about ? The destruction of Jerusalem and its temple that happened 2000 years ago ? Is that what hasn’t happened yet or ? Maybe this part didn’t happen yet ?
“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
Daniel 12:1-2
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains: let him which is on the house top not come down to take any thing out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”Matthew 24:15-21
that happened in 67-70 ad Jerusalem was besieged and destroyed by rome it’s temple eas destroyed and hasn’t been rebuilt in 2000 years
Im not even sure what you are claiming hasn’t happened yet lol
The temple being rebuilt by God ? Is that the one ?
“Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. But he spake of the temple of his body.”
John 2:19, 21 KJV
It seems like your waiting for isralites to build God a temple song is spirit can come and appear in the center of it maybe they could sacrifice bulls and goats again so they could be reminded of thier sins If they rebuilt a temple I suppose maybe they could annoy t some new levite preists that can’t atone for sin
He’s already in his temple
“Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things,
as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
Hebrews 8:1-2, 4-6
your still looking at this world
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
John 18:36 KJV
But indeed this isnt for you your waiting for man to beyond a building but drastically missing the word of God
“Now therefore ye ( gentiles ) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:19-22 KJV
there’s no use for a temple God lives in us there’s no need for a temple on the new world we’re promised God himself will walk among us
again to be clear yes Gods word is true I think you don’t understand it is my position not that Gods word is wrong but your interpretation of it is wrong
God already raised up his temple he’s never going to return to earth and dwell in a building made of rock and layered with gold that was only ever a pattern til Jesus came forth with reality
Your looking at the world and Old Testament not the kingdom of God
“Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
… For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:”
Hebrews 9:1, 24 KJV
The temple tbey made was only a figure and pattern of the true temple in heaven it isn’t about the Old Testament anymore that’s all fulfilled
I don't know all the details. I wasn't there. But surely you know there were many antichrists in the time of the Apostles...1 John 2:18. Do you want me to to give you actual names?
Wars? There were always wars then. The Romans were forced to stop the siege on Jerusalem to defend Rome before returning to finish the siege.
Famine? Pestilence? That can still be found today. Do you want me to list particular countries? Is it difficult to believe these things existed in the 1st century?
Tribulation and death? Weren't the Apostles and Christians beaten regularly and all the Apostles save 1 martyred?
Betrayers and deceives? Did Jesus not say father against son? Brother against brother? Judiazers didn't deceive people?
Hard to believe they were lawless? That their hearts waxed cold?
Aren't the 7 churches proof that the gospel did go to all the known world at that time? And once that was accomplished, wasn't Jerusalem destroyed shortly thereafter?
Are you suggesting you couldn't have done what I've just done? You're smart. You haven't done it because you made the context of those verses larger than the actual audience.
Wars? There were always wars then. The Romans were forced to stop the siege on Jerusalem to defend Rome before returning to finish the siege.
Famine? Pestilence? That can still be found today. Do you want me to list particular countries? Is it difficult to believe these things existed in the 1st century?
Tribulation and death? Weren't the Apostles and Christians beaten regularly and all the Apostles save 1 martyred?
Betrayers and deceives? Did Jesus not say father against son? Brother against brother? Judiazers didn't deceive people?
Hard to believe they were lawless? That their hearts waxed cold?
Aren't the 7 churches proof that the gospel did go to all the known world at that time? And once that was accomplished, wasn't Jerusalem destroyed shortly thereafter?
Are you suggesting you couldn't have done what I've just done? You're smart. You haven't done it because you made the context of those verses larger than the actual audience.
“Why did he say let the reader understand. if it was the people he spoke to? “
because he was speaking to people who had the prophets and read them daily the prophets and law is Israel’s national history and culture he was talking about daniels prophecy ….
“I take God at his word. When he says something would happen it will.”
Yeah we agree on that part it’s just that some won’t listen to what he’s said.
“So when you take literal prophecy and proclaim they will nto literally come true. Then no. You have noting for me..”
lol what part are you talking about ? The destruction of Jerusalem and its temple that happened 2000 years ago ? Is that what hasn’t happened yet or ? Maybe this part didn’t happen yet ?
“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
Daniel 12:1-2
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains: let him which is on the house top not come down to take any thing out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”
Matthew 24:15-21
that happened in 67-70 ad Jerusalem was besieged and destroyed by rome it’s temple eas destroyed and hasn’t been rebuilt in 2000 years
Im not even sure what you are claiming hasn’t happened yet lol
The temple being rebuilt by God ? Is that the one ?
“Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. But he spake of the temple of his body.”
John 2:19, 21 KJV
It seems like your waiting for isralites to build God a temple song is spirit can come and appear in the center of it maybe they could sacrifice bulls and goats again so they could be reminded of thier sins If they rebuilt a temple I suppose maybe they could annoy t some new levite preists that can’t atone for sin
He’s already in his temple
“Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things,
as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
Hebrews 8:1-2, 4-6
your still looking at this world
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
John 18:36 KJV
But indeed this isnt for you your waiting for man to beyond a building but drastically missing the word of God
“Now therefore ye ( gentiles ) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:19-22 KJV
there’s no use for a temple God lives in us there’s no need for a temple on the new world we’re promised God himself will walk among us
again to be clear yes Gods word is true I think you don’t understand it is my position not that Gods word is wrong but your interpretation of it is wrong
God already raised up his temple he’s never going to return to earth and dwell in a building made of rock and layered with gold that was only ever a pattern til Jesus came forth with reality
Your looking at the world and Old Testament not the kingdom of God
“Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
… For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:”
Hebrews 9:1, 24 KJV
The temple tbey made was only a figure and pattern of the true temple in heaven it isn’t about the Old Testament anymore that’s all fulfilled
because he was speaking to people who had the prophets and read them daily the prophets and law is Israel’s national history and culture he was talking about daniels prophecy ….
“I take God at his word. When he says something would happen it will.”
Yeah we agree on that part it’s just that some won’t listen to what he’s said.
“So when you take literal prophecy and proclaim they will nto literally come true. Then no. You have noting for me..”
lol what part are you talking about ? The destruction of Jerusalem and its temple that happened 2000 years ago ? Is that what hasn’t happened yet or ? Maybe this part didn’t happen yet ?
“And at that time shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people:
and there shall be a time of trouble, such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, every one that shall be found written in the book. And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.”
Daniel 12:1-2
“and the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose, and came out of the graves after his resurrection, and went into the holy city, and appeared unto many.”
Matthew 27:52-53 KJV
“When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
then let them which be in Judæa flee into the mountains: let him which is on the house top not come down to take any thing out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes. And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days! But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day: for then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.”Matthew 24:15-21
that happened in 67-70 ad Jerusalem was besieged and destroyed by rome it’s temple eas destroyed and hasn’t been rebuilt in 2000 years
Im not even sure what you are claiming hasn’t happened yet lol
The temple being rebuilt by God ? Is that the one ?
“Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. But he spake of the temple of his body.”
John 2:19, 21 KJV
It seems like your waiting for isralites to build God a temple song is spirit can come and appear in the center of it maybe they could sacrifice bulls and goats again so they could be reminded of thier sins If they rebuilt a temple I suppose maybe they could annoy t some new levite preists that can’t atone for sin
He’s already in his temple
“Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens; a minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man.
For if he were on earth, he should not be a priest, seeing that there are priests that offer gifts according to the law: who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things,
as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.”
Hebrews 8:1-2, 4-6
your still looking at this world
“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.”
John 18:36 KJV
But indeed this isnt for you your waiting for man to beyond a building but drastically missing the word of God
“Now therefore ye ( gentiles ) are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; and are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; in whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: in whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.”
Ephesians 2:19-22 KJV
there’s no use for a temple God lives in us there’s no need for a temple on the new world we’re promised God himself will walk among us
again to be clear yes Gods word is true I think you don’t understand it is my position not that Gods word is wrong but your interpretation of it is wrong
God already raised up his temple he’s never going to return to earth and dwell in a building made of rock and layered with gold that was only ever a pattern til Jesus came forth with reality
Your looking at the world and Old Testament not the kingdom of God
“Then verily the first covenant had also ordinances of divine service, and a worldly sanctuary.
… For Christ is not entered into the holy places made with hands, which are the figures of the true; but into heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us:”
Hebrews 9:1, 24 KJV
The temple tbey made was only a figure and pattern of the true temple in heaven it isn’t about the Old Testament anymore that’s all fulfilled
I will only come if you can show these literal events actually took place.. That should be easy to do if the events took place.
again Your not showing HOW the prophecy came true by the actual event happening..
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Wars and rumers of warns, Nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom?
How many nations rose against other nations and kingdoms against kingdoms in the first century?
Do you understand what Labor pains in effect means?
These things have been occuring since the fall. It does not mean it fulfills prophecy.
You want me to see things that are not there.
The audience of those verses are the audience that is here at the end of the age and when jesus returns.
Niether of those events have taken place YET.
How many nations rose against other nations and kingdoms against kingdoms in the first century?
Do you understand what Labor pains in effect means?
These things have been occuring since the fall. It does not mean it fulfills prophecy.
You want me to see things that are not there.
The audience of those verses are the audience that is here at the end of the age and when jesus returns.
Niether of those events have taken place YET.
Nations against nations? Didn't Rome war almost constantly against other nations? Labor pains? That is simply referring to the beginning, not degree. And Jesus told his audience that some of those very people would experience those things...v. 34...this generation.
The end of the age corresponds to the end of the covenant which was laid to rest with the destruction of Jerusalem.
So, let's put it together:
Audience is that particular generation.
Message is end of the age.
End of the age is the end of the old covenant.
How will we know...Jerusalem destroyed.
The end of the age corresponds to the end of the covenant which was laid to rest with the destruction of Jerusalem.
So, let's put it together:
Audience is that particular generation.
Message is end of the age.
End of the age is the end of the old covenant.
How will we know...Jerusalem destroyed.