TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

Everlasting-Grace · Jan 9, 2024

Rome was one nation. And was the only kingdom.

Labor pains shows how the events unfold. They get exponentially more severe and exponentially closer together. And exponentially more in frequency.

Look at the last 100 Years. I think you can see these things literally taking place.

this generation. The generation that is alive when these things take place.

The end of the age is the end of the age when israel will be restored. Or the time of the gentile has been fulfilled

Jerusalem has been slaves of gentile nations since Babylon first overtook it. The end of the age is when this gentile dominion will be crushed..

SomeDisciple · Jan 9, 2024

Aaron56 said:

You tell me; here's what I posted:

"What they DO SAY is that those sacrifices cannot save an apostate; because they cannot remit sins. They can't, and they never did."

Obviously, if they can't save an apostate; they're not gonna save somebody who never believed in Christ at all.

Aaron56 said:

Prove it.

Cameron143 · Jan 9, 2024

Everlasting-Grace said:

The age that Jesus was referring to ending He said would be that generation. Thus, the age ending was the old covenant.
If you don't get that, what follows will inevitably be wrong.
Read the 1st chapter of Revelation.
Verse 1...things which must shortly come to pass...
Verse 3...the time is at hand...
Verse 7...and they also which pierced Him...

How can it be speaking of anything other than the destruction of Israel if those who put Him on the cross would see it?

iamsoandso · Jan 9, 2024

Everlasting-Grace said:

No I am meaning tat from the time Jesus stated to watch for the AOD till it was set fire and destroyed it never took place...

douggg · Jan 9, 2024

Cameron143 said:

The abomination of desolation will be a statue image of the beast-king of Revelation 13:14-15. It will be placed on the temple mount out in the open.

Kroogz · Jan 9, 2024

Cameron143 said:

When will Israel/Jews mourn for Christ? Or have they already IYO?

Zechariah 12:10 (KJV)
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Cameron143 · Jan 9, 2024

douggg said:

Do you have a source or reference?

Cameron143 · Jan 9, 2024

Kroogz said:

When will Israel/Jews mourn for Christ? Or have they already IYO?

Zechariah 12:10 (KJV)
10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn.

Not sure. Would have to do some research.

iamsoandso · Jan 9, 2024

Cameron143 said:

How are you seeing Revelation 1-3 who are the 7 Churches in Asia to mean "destruction of Israel" were they gentiles in those Churches or Jews?

Pilgrimshope · Jan 9, 2024

Cameron143 said:

“Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?

Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and some of them ye shall kill and crucify; and some of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute them from city to city:

Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation. O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, thou that killest the prophets, and stonest them which are sent unto thee, how often would I have gathered thy children together, even as a hen gathereth her chickens under her wings, and ye would not! Behold, your house is left unto you desolate.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭23:31-34, 36-38‬ ‭

“And when ye shall see Jerusalem compassed with armies, ( 67-70 ad the three year siege of Jerusalem )then know that the desolation thereof is nigh.

Then let them which are in Judæa flee to the mountains; and let them which are in the midst of it depart out; and let not them that are in the countries enter thereinto.

For these be the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭21:20-22‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Cameron143 · Jan 9, 2024

iamsoandso said:

The seven churches don't have anything to do with Israel directly. Chapter 1 is a kind of preamble to the book. It establishes the risen Lord again in His glory and the purpose of the book and the time frame under consideration.
Chapters 2-3 are a historical record and confirmation that the church He promised to build was indeed being built and the gospel had gone to the whole world. But like any good King, He wants both to warn His subjects and encourage where commendation is in order. But He is also signaling the end of the age and the wrath that is to come upon Israel, and particularly Jerusalem.
Matthew 24:14...And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come...Most people think this is referring to the end of time. But Matthew 24:34 gives the time frame...this generation. The end was the end of the old covenant.
The rest of the book of Revelation is about explaining the coming wrath because Israel had entered into a covenant relationship with God and failed to meet the stipulations of the agreement and would now suffer the consequences for their unfaithfulness. They had filled up the measure of their fathers when the killed Jesus and the cup of wrath is full.
The end of the book is simply an explanation of how God is bringing in a new covenant that cannot fail to carry on His plan to fill the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.

Pilgrimshope · Jan 9, 2024

Cameron143 said:

The seven churches don't have anything to do with Israel directly. Chapter 1 is a kind of preamble to the book. It establishes the risen Lord again in His glory and the purpose of the book and the time frame under consideration.
Chapters 2-3 are a historical record and confirmation that the church He promised to build was indeed being built and the gospel had gone to the whole world. But like any good King, He wants both to warn His subjects and encourage where commendation is in order. But He is also signaling the end of the age and the wrath that is to come upon Israel, and particularly Jerusalem.
Matthew 24:14...And this gospel of the kingdom will be proclaimed throughout the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come...Most people think this is referring to the end of time. But Matthew 24:34 gives the time frame...this generation. The end was the end of the old covenant.
The rest of the book of Revelation is about explaining the coming wrath because Israel had entered into a covenant relationship with God and failed to meet the stipulations of the agreement and would now suffer the consequences for their unfaithfulness. They had filled up the measure of their fathers when the killed Jesus and the cup of wrath is full.
The end of the book is simply an explanation of how God is bringing in a new covenant that cannot fail to carry on His plan to fill the earth with the knowledge of the glory of the Lord.

Have you ever read the song of Moses brother ? Or the curses of the breaking of the law that’s written in the law ?

You can see them In revelation

Cameron143 · Jan 9, 2024

Pilgrimshope said:

Something I think alot of people miss is that bringing in a new covenant means the old covenant is gone. This means that those under the covenant will be placed on the balance and accounts settled under the former agreement. When God settled with Israel as a nation, they were found wanting. They didn't fulfill the agreement and God had no choice but to exact justice according to the contract.

Mem · Jan 9, 2024

Everlasting-Grace said:

You didn't follow the direction of the conversation. No worries, I've only skimmed through the comments in trying to catch up, and I'd always struggled with comprehension when speed reading.

Scripture refers to the holy place as that where the altar was, also known as the outer court, I think...

At any rate, even if it was in the inner court, I'm not that familiar with the temple design to recall by rote, it wasn't the Holy of Holies because the Holy of Holies is called the Holy of Holies, because God's presence was there.

And, though I even less familiar with the legends of Mohammed, I do even if vaguely recall he supposedly ascended to heaven (and I daresay that is dubbing oneself god to even suggest one could or has ascended to heaven; isn't there only one that has ascended, that is him that has descended?) from the site of dome of the rock, which is also considered the rock, or altar, where Abraham intended to offer up Isaac.

Anyway, you had expressed an opinion, that I saw in my skimming, that there must be a third temple because there has to be a place the oad can stand in. However, that implies that the temple ruins can no longer be consider as anything holy, but I'm not convinced that that ground can be deemed made 'unholy' even by desecration. Moses, and his successor Joshua, were both told, 'remove thy sandals from off they feet, for this ground is holy," and even now, even hundreds and thousands of years later, I'd think that spot, even if we do not know the whereabouts of, is yet 'holy' considering that, at least once, God stood there.

iamsoandso · Jan 9, 2024

Cameron143 said:

Ok "the risen Lord" do you see him risen in the flesh/bone or was his body still in the tomb on earth after his ascension in Acts 1?
https://biblehub.com/interlinear/john/20.htm

And ,,,in them failing to meet the stipulations how do you see Daniels 70 weeks? I'll break down what I'm asking about it,,,
They were in captivity in Babylon then M/Persia then Greece(obedient in their punishment as God decreed to them) but Rome the fourth beast they were to serve under(in the 70 weeks) did they complete their allocated punishment or did they instead revolt against Rome(Gods decree of servitude) in what they did in Ad 66-70?

TheDivineWatermark · Jan 9, 2024

Everlasting-Grace said:

Two passages that I can think of...

I was assuming that Mem may have been referring either to Rev20:4b, which speaks to the resurrection of those saints killed / martyred / beheaded during the second half of the 7-yr trib (which means they are resurrected around the same time-slot as His Second Coming to the earth Rev19);

...and in Daniel 12:13, Daniel is told he will "stand in thy lot [be resurrected--defined as "to stand again" (on the earth--as OT Jews FULLY and CORRECTLY EXPECTED)] at the END of the DAYS [i.e. at the END of the "DAYS" referred to in THAT CONTEXT]"... which context also contains the info Jesus was pointing back to (from Matt24:15) when He spoke of "abomination [singular] of desolation [singular]" spoken of by Daniel the prophet... Which can only be [specifically] referencing that of Dan12:11 "abomination [singular] of desolation [singular] SET UP [H5414]"...

... SO... since DANIEL [OT saint] has not been physically resurrected "TO STAND AGAIN [on the earth]"... (as HE FULLY EXPECTED)... then this prophecy is indeed yet "future"

(see also Acts 2:29 about David / OT saint)

Apologies if this wasn't Mem's intended meaning.

It's mine, anyway.

Cameron143 · Jan 9, 2024

Mem said:

You didn't follow the direction of the conversation. No worries, I've only skimmed through the comments in trying to catch up, and I'd always struggled with comprehension when speed reading.

Scripture refers to the holy place as that where the altar was, also known as the outer court, I think...

At any rate, even if it was in the inner court, I'm not that familiar with the temple design to recall by rote, it wasn't the Holy of Holies because the Holy of Holies is called the Holy of Holies, because God's presence was there.

And, though I even less familiar with the legends of Mohammed, I do even if vaguely recall he supposedly ascended to heaven (and I daresay that is dubbing oneself god to even suggest one could or has ascended to heaven; isn't there only one that has ascended, that is him that has descended?) from the site of dome of the rock, which is also considered the rock, or altar, where Abraham intended to offer up Isaac.

Anyway, you had expressed an opinion, that I saw in my skimming, that there must be a third temple because there has to be a place the oad can stand in. However, that implies that the temple ruins can no longer be consider as anything holy, but I'm not convinced that that ground can be deemed made 'unholy' even by desecration. Moses, and his successor Joshua, were both told, 'remove thy sandals from off they feet, for this ground is holy," and even now, even hundreds and thousands of years later, I'd think that spot, even if we do not know the whereabouts of, is yet 'holy' considering that, at least once, God stood there.

What makes something holy is God's attendance to it. No spot is holy in and of itself. It is only holy as God is manifest upon it. Moses didn't put of his sandals until God arrived. Before that, the spot where he stood was simply desert.

TheDivineWatermark · Jan 9, 2024

Komentaja said:

I can't speak for SACREDWARRIOR, but I do agree with him that Dan11:31's "aod" speaks to a PAST event, involving Antiochus Epiphanes in approx 165bc.

Then at verse 36, the passage transitions to "far future" (the time-period that will END at the same time-slot that Daniel [OT saint] will be bodily resurrected ["to stand again"... on the earth]--"thou shalt rest and STAND IN THY LOT at the END of the days");
Dan11:36-12:13 covers that "far future" time period (what we commonly call the 7-yr tribulation period, yet future; i.e. What Rev1:1 calls "[to SHOW unto...] ... things which must come to pass IN QUICKNESS [noun]". That is, when they take place, it will be "in quickness [/with speed]"... it's not saying, soon, as in the 70ad events [which was the "great DISTRESS in the land" Lk21's 12 or so verses cover... not the "great 'tribulation'," which is far-future])

Cameron143 · Jan 9, 2024

iamsoandso said:

Not sure I'm following what you mean by the risen Lord. In 1:18 Jesus is described as...He that liveth, and was dead. I wasn't really making a point by adding risen. I could have as easily have left it off. But Jesus is the firstfruit of a new humanity. There is neither Jew or Greek but the new man. What His glorified body is like the Bible gives little information. It seems able to consume and digest food and feels much the same. But it also may be able to pass through walls.
The 1st century destruction of Israel is the result of God's cup of wrath finally being full. As you have said, God brought judgment upon Israel for their disobedience under Babylon, then Persia, then Greece, and finally under Rome. All along they would kill the prophets and servants of God. And now they are about to kill His Son. This will be the proverbial last straw that will provoke God to destroy the temple and end His covenant with Israel. Jesus explains all this in Matthew 23:29-38.
Rome itself is just God's instrument of destruction and wrath. It is also under Roman rule that the eternal kingdom begins. Wonder what that could be.

TheDivineWatermark · Jan 9, 2024

Rev17:8 "... when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet shall be [future tense]."

...who / what could THAT be? ("and IS NOT" when written)

TEMPLE......TO BE OR NOT TO BE....THAT IS MY QUESTION!!!!!

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