The Wrecklessness of Believing that Satan is Already Bound

[Laodicea]

Who is ressurected in the first and who in the second?

John 5:28-29
(28) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
(29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Revelation 20:5-6
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is for God's people at the beginning of the 1000 years the 2nd is for the wicked at the end of the 1000 years to receive their reward.

 

[Laodicea]

What city? If the city is not on earth then what are these people on earth attacking? the city does not come down until after this earth is destroyed. meaning long after these events take place.

Who are they attacking? Again if no one is on earth there is no one to attack.

God devours them with fire. These people do not have resurrected bodies which can not be devoured. They are human, with all the characteristics of human form. (even the wicked in their resurrected bodies will not be able to be consumed by fire. For they are cast in an eternal fire which will never be quenched. Not to mention. if it is these "resurrected" people as you say, and they are killed again. They will have to be resurrected another time to stand judgment.

Remember, it does not say satan was devoured. it says he was cast to hell.

I am just trying to understand it. You are the first person I have ever seen who believes what you have shared here today.

Revelation 20:9
(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

What is the beloved city? It is the new Jerusalem which comes down at the end of the 1000 years. The earth and everything in it at that time will be destroyed except the city.
2 Peter 3:10-11
(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

 

[zone]

John 5:28-29
(28) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
(29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Revelation 20:5-6
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is for God's people at the beginning of the 1000 years the 2nd is for the wicked at the end of the 1000 years to receive their reward.

then who is alive during the millennium?
what is happening during it?

 

[zone]

What is the beloved city? It is the new Jerusalem which comes down at the end of the 1000 years. The earth and everything in it at that time will be destroyed except the city.
2 Peter 3:10-11
(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

only problem is your proof text from Peter is talking about the 2nd Advent...not 1,000 years after it.
that fire happens at the 2nd Advent.

a thousand years is a figurative term. symbolic of the messianic era (salvation) of the eternal kingdom. its mentioned in one chapter in one book. in a symbolic book of visions.

we are in that period right now.


First ADVENT..............[a thousand years]..............satan's little season/SECOND ADVENT/2nd resurrection/judgment

new heaven new earth NEW JERUSALEM ETERNITY

 

[Abiding]

For Satan to be bound, he must be thrown into the bottomless pit (still future) so he cannot deceive the nations anymore. He will try to deceive a second time when he is loosed. Judging by our current world condition, I hardly think Satan is in his "pit".

The Kingdom is within us... 6 being confident of this very thing, that He who has begun a good work in you will complete it until the day of Jesus Christ; (philip. 1) but it is not SET UP yet. It has begun, but is not complete.

I fully believe the millenium is a kingdom with a timeline, ON EARTH, because what would be the point of Christ's return in a visible sense,....???? The men that saw him go up were promised he would return in LIKE MANNER... visibly and with his army. Whatever happens after that.... we will see
There is no point in arguing about this. It will never be sorted out until Jesus' return.

Look at that last line...was she suggesting arguing stop in the forums?? totally weird
idea..no wonder she got banned

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Revelation 20:9
(9) And they went up on the breadth of the earth, and compassed the camp of the saints about, and the beloved city: and fire came down from God out of heaven, and devoured them.

What is the beloved city? It is the new Jerusalem which comes down at the end of the 1000 years. The earth and everything in it at that time will be destroyed except the city.
2 Peter 3:10-11
(10) But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
(11) Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness,

rev 21
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Again, the new city does not come down until this earth is destroyed and a new heaven and earth are made. It could not be the new jerusalem which is spoken about in Rev 20. For it was not on the earth yet.

 

[zone]

Again, the new city does not come down until this earth is destroyed and a new heaven and earth are made. It could not be the new jerusalem which is spoken about in Rev 20. For it was not on the earth yet.

EG
you realize John went forward in time, right?

 

[Laodicea]

only problem is your proof text from Peter is talking about the 2nd Advent...not 1,000 years after it.
that fire happens at the 2nd Advent.

a thousand years is a figurative term. symbolic of the messianic era (salvation) of the eternal kingdom. its mentioned in one chapter in one book. in a symbolic book of visions.

we are in that period right now.


First ADVENT..............[a thousand years]..............satan's little season/SECOND ADVENT/2nd resurrection/judgment

new heaven new earth NEW JERUSALEM ETERNITY

Peter gives a brief overview while more detail is given in Rev 20. Also not all of Revelation is symbolic. Lets take Rev 13
Revelation 13:1
(1) And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
This verse is symbolic because the Bible says so:-

Beast = Kingdom
Daniel 7:23
(23) Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Horn = King
Daniel 7:24
(24) And the ten horns out of this kingdom are ten kings that shall arise: and another shall rise after them; and he shall be diverse from the first, and he shall subdue three kings.

Sea = People
Revelation 17:15
(15) And he saith unto me, The waters which thou sawest, where the whore sitteth, are peoples, and multitudes, and nations, and tongues.

Seven Heads = Seven kings
Revelation 17:9-10
(9) And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
(10) And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.

So according to this the Bible says that Revelation 13 is symbolic, now lets have a look at Revelation 20

Revelation 20:1
(1) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

The word bottomless pit should be translated deep it means the same as in Genesis 1:2
Genesis 1:2
(2) And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

The deep in this verse is literal and means the same as in Revelation 20. When Jesus returns He will reverse creation just as in the flood creation was reversed and Satan and his angels will be forced to stay in the deep.

I am open to what verses you want to show me that relate to Rev 20 that show it is symbolic just as in Rev 13.

 

[Laodicea]

rev 21
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Again, the new city does not come down until this earth is destroyed and a new heaven and earth are made. It could not be the new jerusalem which is spoken about in Rev 20. For it was not on the earth yet.

Revelation is not in chronological order, often in Revelation it covers the same ground with different information. God gave Pharaoh 2 dreams concerning the future both which related to the same thing which Joseph interpreted. Why did God give 2 dreams instead of 1? God does the same thing in Daniel and Revelation. To give examples the 2nd coming is mentioned a few times in Revelation:-

Revelation 3:20
(20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Matthew 24:33
(33) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. It can also be translated He
Revelation 8:1
(1) And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Revelation 11:15
(15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 14:15
(15) And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Revelation 14:19
(19) And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Matthew 13:39
(39) The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Revelation 16:17
(17) And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Revelation 19:15
(15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

These verses show that the book of Revelation is not in chronological order they are all references to the coming of the Lord.

 

[Laodicea]

eremiah 4:23-26
(23) I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
(24) I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
(25) I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
(26) I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.
Revelation 16:19-20
(19) And the great city was divided into three parts, and the cities of the nations fell: and great Babylon came in remembrance before God, to give unto her the cup of the wine of the fierceness of his wrath.
(20) And every island fled away, and the mountains were not found.

Jeremiah says that there is no man no birds the earth has no light and Revelation 16 says a similar thing these are prophecies for the future when will they be fulfilled? If there are people on earth they cannot be fulfilled.

Isaiah 13:9-13
(9) Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
(10) For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
(11) And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
(12) I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
(13) Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.

The deep in Revelation 20 could be a deep of darkness, the sun will not shine the moon and stars will not shine, but it will be on earth during the 1000 years

 

[eternally-gratefull]

EG
you realize John went forward in time, right?

Yes. why? I don't understand the question

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Revelation is not in chronological order, often in Revelation it covers the same ground with different information. God gave Pharaoh 2 dreams concerning the future both which related to the same thing which Joseph interpreted. Why did God give 2 dreams instead of 1? God does the same thing in Daniel and Revelation. To give examples the 2nd coming is mentioned a few times in Revelation:-

Revelation 3:20
(20) Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me.
Matthew 24:33
(33) So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. It can also be translated He
Revelation 8:1
(1) And when he had opened the seventh seal, there was silence in heaven about the space of half an hour.
Revelation 11:15
(15) And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of our Lord, and of his Christ; and he shall reign for ever and ever.
Revelation 14:15
(15) And another angel came out of the temple, crying with a loud voice to him that sat on the cloud, Thrust in thy sickle, and reap: for the time is come for thee to reap; for the harvest of the earth is ripe.
Revelation 14:19
(19) And the angel thrust in his sickle into the earth, and gathered the vine of the earth, and cast it into the great winepress of the wrath of God.
Matthew 13:39
(39) The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels.
Revelation 16:17
(17) And the seventh angel poured out his vial into the air; and there came a great voice out of the temple of heaven, from the throne, saying, It is done.
Revelation 19:15
(15) And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

These verses show that the book of Revelation is not in chronological order they are all references to the coming of the Lord.

My friend. Rev 21 should not be taken in order?

rev 21
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea.
2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband.

I know rev is not in order. But these two verses should be taken in order. I see no reason to make the new jerusalem come to earth before the old one is destroyed by switching the order of these two verses.

 

[zone]

Yes. why? I don't understand the question

cuz you previously said:

rev 21
1 Now I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away. Also there was no more sea. 2 Then I, John,[a] saw the holy city, New Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from heaven saying, “Behold, the tabernacle of God is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they shall be His people. God Himself will be with them and be their God. 4 And God will wipe away every tear from their eyes; there shall be no more death, nor sorrow, nor crying. There shall be no more pain, for the former things have passed away.”

Again, the new city does not come down until this earth is destroyed and a new heaven and earth are made. It could not be the new jerusalem which is spoken about in Rev 20. For it was not on the earth yet.

john was carried forward in time in visions.
he saw things "as they were happening" so to speak...including the Lamb opening the scroll upon Ascension; the 4 horsemen being released; the tribulation; new jerusalem.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

cuz you previously said:


john was carried forward in time in visions.
he saw things "as they were happening" so to speak...including the Lamb opening the scroll upon Ascension; the 4 horsemen being released; the tribulation; new jerusalem.

yes I know this. I made this response to Laodecia, who said that the world, when tempted by satan to attack the city was this new jerusalem. And showing it could not have been. because the New Jeruslam does not come down until this earth is destroyed. The time line does not fit.

sorry if I confused ya

 

[zone]

he attacks the camp of the saints - thats christians wherever they are at that time.

 

[Red33]

he attacks the camp of the saints - thats christians wherever they are at that time.

Zone,

As an amillennialist, what revelation, vision or future event that was given to John, in the book of Revelation, has come to past or been fulfilled by Christ in the church or in the church age? Do you know, have you seen or heard, or has it been recorded and can you state as actual fact, using your vast resources, what these things are that have come to past and been fulfilled? After you have done that, can you identify any of these same scriptures that relate to Israel or the Jews and explain what their role is in this book of Revelation, if any? AND, are there any OT prophecies that relate or predict what Israel's and the Jews participation may be in this book of Revelation concerning what has come to pass and been fulfilled and that which has not come to oass or been fullfilled? Take all the time you need and if you need to do some additional research or homework, then do so.

I would ask this of any believer that is an amillennialist or otherwise to do the same.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

he attacks the camp of the saints - thats christians wherever they are at that time.

well that is where we disagree. I think he goes after them yes. But I think there are so few at this time it is not worth his trouble. He mostly goes after Israel.

Remember satan is trying to prevent his eternal doom. Attacking Christians and killing them all at this time is not going to help him, If nothing, it sends them home early. and gets them out of the wrath at this time.

But if he can keep God from fulfilling his promise to Israel through Abraham Issac and jacob. And keep God from fullfilling the prophesies of Ezekial, Rom 11 and many other places. He has proved God is not all knowing and who he says he is. And thus satan would be set free.

 

[Strangelove]

John 5:28-29
(28) Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
(29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
1 Thessalonians 4:16
(16) For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
Revelation 20:5-6
(5) But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
(6) Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection is for God's people at the beginning of the 1000 years the 2nd is for the wicked at the end of the 1000 years to receive their reward.

(29) And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

Your own verse refutes you.

Also the parable of the whest and the tares.

(Matthew 13:29) But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them.

(Matthew 13:30) Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.

the good and the wicked are harvested at the same time....on The LAST DAY.

FIRST the tares (you said the good are ressurected first so this completely refutes that)...then the wheat. All on the same day. Ressurection and judgement all on the last day.

(John 6:44) No man can come to me, except the Father which hath sent me draw him: and I will raise him up at the last day.

Not much of a last day if you have 1000 years after that!

 

[Strangelove]

well that is where we disagree. I think he goes after them yes. But I think there are so few at this time it is not worth his trouble. He mostly goes after Israel.

Is that the same as saying he mostly goes after "jews"?

Are there gonna be JEWS in heaven beheaded for their witness of Christ? Lolz...

...I think not.

 

[Strangelove]

Zone,

As an amillennialist, what revelation, vision or future event that was given to John, in the book of Revelation, has come to past or been fulfilled by Christ in the church or in the church age? Do you know, have you seen or heard, or has it been recorded and can you state as actual fact, using your vast resources, what these things are that have come to past and been fulfilled? After you have done that, can you identify any of these same scriptures that relate to Israel or the Jews and explain what their role is in this book of Revelation, if any? AND, are there any OT prophecies that relate or predict what Israel's and the Jews participation may be in this book of Revelation concerning what has come to pass and been fulfilled and that which has not come to oass or been fullfilled? Take all the time you need and if you need to do some additional research or homework, then do so.

I would ask this of any believer that is an amillennialist or otherwise to do the same.

Everything apart from the stuff that symbolises satans little season, ressurection of mankind and judgement.............has been fulfilled.